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Rumsfeld's gang want regime change in Iran.

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Yup the man whose voice I can never hear cause dad keeps the remote and mute's it when Rumsfeld speaks - he could sound like Bart Simpson for all I know - wants a democratic Iran.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/30/otsc.amanpour/index.html

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And like a gullible puppy youd undoubtedly applaud another reckless and illegal invasion of yet another sovereign nation even though all the lies that underpinned this last invasion have been emerging and the promises of wonderfully gleeful masses praising us for our "liberation" have failed to materialise. What has materialised, however, is a descent into lawlessness and chaos, increased disease and death of Iraqi children, and increased hatred of demonstrable US imperialism in the region.

    Can't you see by now that what Rumsfeld really wants is merely further excuses to decimate other countries so that the administration's arms contractors, oil companies and construction companies can be handed bilions more tax dollars? Youd better wake up soon and realise that they are selling out the country's economic future to line their own pockets and those of their corporate friends.

    You even posted an article a while ago which showed how they blatantly lied to the public in order to oust the democratically elected leader mossedegh and install the evil Shah decades ago!

    All excuses they give you at present are merely the same sorts of smokescreens and lies pnj. Get a clue!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    illegal invasion

    Everything you said is still valid Clandestine...but they're not going to do it with an invasion. They're sponsoring student groups and some group of radicals that Saddam was supporting to over-throw the 100 or so radical Muslim clerics who are preventing Iran from becoming a democracy.

    One thing should make you happy, it's all over the press about how Cheney's old firm is going to make a fortune off of the reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan and Bosnia. Some Senate Democrats are calling for an investigation. The only legitimate argument is that the firm has unique capabilities...so they say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    meh , if Chenys firm do a good job rebuilding Iraq , then so what?

    If they are the best ones for the job , then I see no problem.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Then you've a lot to learn about crony capitalism and the corrupt abuse of political power it entails.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Cheney's old firm is going to make a fortune off of the reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan and Bosnia. Some Senate Democrats are calling for an investigation. The only legitimate argument is that the firm has unique capabilities...so they say.

    Would that be the unique capability of being awarded a job and a license to print money by a vice-President who used to be a director?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He was more than a director, Al, he was the CEO.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From the Letters to the Editor page in today's Guardian:

    - "How long will it be before the US announces that it has good intelligence that the Iraqis hid their weapons in Iran and launches another invasion to look for them?"

    Let's hope Dubya doesn't read the Guardian. :D :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Problem is Tony reads it no doubt and such an op ed soundbite could easily find its way into the next doctored piece of MI6 "intelligence" he goes racing to the White House with.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually, the news regarding Iraq is that another Al Qaeda group was also operating out of Iraq before the war: the one that blew up targets in Morocco.

    That justfies the war more than ever.

    Iran can be toppled without war. But, it must be toppled. The war against radical Islam must be relentless regardless of world opinion. Every Friday they scream death to America. And ya know what? We've heard them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Iran is slightly different , the general populace seem happy under the mad mullahs , the Iraqis hated Saddam Hussain.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, you only have 100 nutty Muslim clerics, keeping young Muslims who want a modern, Islamic democracy to come into being. The nuts even made store owners take down Valentine hearts in Feb.

    Even if the population did want them in power, we can't allow a radical Muslim government or one that hides a radical Muslim movement to exist on earth. If we do, the next 9/11 is our fault.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is the wealthy , middle class Iranians who want a democratic Iran.

    The masses of peasents are happy with the mad mullahs. Iran would be much harder to democratise (sp?) than Iraq , Shia Muslims are more fanatical than Sunni.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think in this case they want to foster a revolution of moderate Muslims from within Iran.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That would be very difficult , fanatical Shias massively outnumber the moderate , westernised middle class.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Actually, the news regarding Iraq is that another Al Qaeda group was also operating out of Iraq before the war: the one that blew up targets in Morocco.

    That justfies the war more than ever.
    How so? Even if that info is true (link please), as it has been explained thousands of times before, the terrorists operated from Kurdish-controlled areas. Had the US and Britain not pursued their ridiculous no-fly zones for 12 years there would have been no such terrorists there. All that was needed was to remove the no-fly zones and bingo! No more "terrorists" operating there. In any case pnj, 9 out of 10 reports about terrorists living and operating in Iraq are utter bollocks.

    Besides, Iraq being "liberated" (sic) by the US hasn't had much effect on that Al Qaida cell that bombed Morocco last month did it? So I'm sorry my friend, the war remains every last bit as unjustified as before.
    Iran can be toppled without war. But, it must be toppled. The war against radical Islam must be relentless regardless of world opinion. Every Friday they scream death to America. And ya know what? We've heard them.
    They are screaming 'death to America' in a few mosques in Britain as well pnj. Should we head for the air shelters?

    As a matter of fact, in every country in the world where there are mosques there is going to be one or two idiots who scream "death to America". Should the US invade the entire Middle East and half of Africa and Asia? You'd like that wouldn't you? But how about your bestiest friends in Pakistan? It's okay for radicals to chant death to America if the country in question is a Washington puppet isn't it?

    Please don't be so clueless about terrorism, its causes and the actual effect a couple of nutters actually has on world terrorism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    Iran is slightly different , the general populace seem happy under the mad mullahs , the Iraqis hated Saddam Hussain.

    Iran continues to violate human rights. 1000's of people have been tortured or face public execution.

    this is from the Islamic Penal Code:
    Pursuant to the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Islamic Penal Code was passed in 1991. Under the Penal Code, any form of association or friendship between the sexes outside marriage is punishable by flogging, imprisonment, forced marriage and stoning to death. For adultery, the penal code accords stoning or flogging depending on whether the accused is married or unmarried. The law stipulates the size of the stone that must be used in stoning to ensure maximum suffering of the accused. In the punishment of stoning to death, the stones should not be too large so that the person dies on being hit by one or two of them; they should not be so small either that they could not be defined as stones."

    read more at http://www.azadi-iran.org/images/Qom_Conference.doc

    I only know a few iranians, and those are far from happy under the "mad mullahs".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know Iranians too , exiles , and they hate what their country has become.

    Shia Muslims beleive that the mullahs are representatives of the hidden imam , conduits bringing instructions from him , one of the most holy figures in Shia Islam.

    And their strict application of Shirah law is the reason for these atrocities , they beleive that it is right for this to happen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5446-2003Jun2.html?nav=hptop_tb

    Here's the link to the Washington Post article Aladdin that says the Al Qaeda group in Morocco was also operating out of Iraq before the war.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know Iranians too , exiles , and they hate what their country has become

    Perhaps you might ask them how they liked the country under the Shah.

    Then for a change, go do some actual research into the brutality, political imprisonments, tortures, and executions that were carried out under his barbaric regime.

    I suspect your find that your Iranian friends are from the pampered middle class that enjoyed the blessings of the Shah whilst innumerable other sections of Iranian society suffered under his repressive bootheel (all financed and supported by the US I might add). So much for liberty and democracy!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    These particular people lived for a while under the mullahs , then left for the UK because they wanted a better future.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Then to say they hate "what their country has become..." is highly disingenuous since it is the same now as it was when they left. If they have no awareness of the repressive brutality of the previous regime which the west fully supported then they can hardly make such comparative statements credibly.

    Fact is, the only thing that has really changed is that where Iran formerly had a fully western backed repressive and dictatorial regime, it subsequently has had a religiously repressive anti western dictatorial regime. One, I might, add that wont bow and scrape to the greedy oil interests of the UK or the US.

    For the man on the street in Iran, there has been no real change.

    If the mullahs bought Lockheed Martin weaponry and gave Exxon and BP fat oil exploration contracts, you can bet your bottom dollar that Washington and London would be turning a blind eye to any attrocities perpetrated against the Iranian population.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyway, looks like preparations are well under way:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2958094.stm

    It could be an honest navegation error though ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The boat drivers were Iranian. That's why they haven't been released yet.
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