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YES other species of mamals have homosexual sex a total of 123 studied, including exclusivly gay members, bisexual members and hetrosexual members
At the current rate of infection the hetrosexual population is topping the list, in therory if the rate of infection continues at this rate the entire hetrosexual population will be infected by 2023, whereas the rate of infection for the homosexual population is slowing down, and you say AIDs (or HIV as most people are infected with not AIDs) is wiping out the weakest?
i really dont like uninformed opinions, the posters on here who agree with this are obviously anti-homosexual, but are trying to back up there arguements with science, when the science fact is the homosexuality is normal is almost all of our closest ancestors
As u have quoted darwin you obviously believe in his theory of evolution, therefore if our ancestors fo it i.e. apes etc why is it not normal?
the debate about homosexualism only started around the 1300's with the advent of christianity, before that homexualism was not a problem, including the myans and egyptians carrying out such practices.
please stop using science as a base for your biggoted views, for one it gives science a bad name, and another your wrong.
In the US homosexuality is a disability protected by the Americans With Disabilities Act...now law of the land...nuf said for their influence.
I am curious to know to what extent HIV has spread amoung the racial minorities in england...does anyone know?
Diesel
88888888
Posted by Berzerker (aka Thanatos):
"GUESS WHAT, guys (and girls)? "
Awww, quit with that PC crap will ya? We all know that you're talking to everyone. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
PS I am a soldier, not a Marine. HOOOAH! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
"Avauncez! To Defend and Serve!"
Well according to Darwins theory they are already out of the game because they have those diseases. If darwins theory applied to humans then these people would have died off already.
Thats not the issue..We are discussing Darwins theory of evolution. Survival of the fittest doesnt take into account whether its a good idea to continue the species.
Well some of us have evolved and are no longer apes.
*shrugs* Paedophilia also wasnt a problem for people of the past..Peoples attitudes change. Not comparing gays to paeds here, just pointing out that we aint what we were.
Posted by Lord of Little:
"Those with inheritable genetic conditions?? Diabetes sufferers?? Haemophiliacs??"
Yes, but there are cures (so to speak) for those diseases. These are diseases that can be handled and taken care of. AIDS is not. It is a fatal disease with treatment that only prolongs your life, but not saves it. It is survival of the fittest.
"Avauncez! To Defend and Serve!"
The Sunday Times, 6th. June, 1999, page 12. "A detailed survey of sexual behaviour in the animal kingdom has shown that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. Over 300 species of mammal and bird have been shown to exhibit a range of homosexual behaviour."
"Dr Bruce Bagemihl, a biologist in Seattle, America, who spent 10 years compiling the study, believes this behaviour is firm evidence that not all animal sexual activity revolves around procreation. 'Animal homosexuality is a rich and multifaceted phenomenon that is at least as complex and varied as heterosexuality - the lives of 'queer' animals are far more diverse than we could ever have imagined,' he said."
"Bagemihl has gained his insights from research into extensive zoological studies dating back two centuries. These record an enormous variety of behaviour patterns, including bisexual activities as well as some that are exclusively homosexual."
"Some animals seem particularly predisposed towards homosexuality.
Most male bottlenose dolphins pair off with other males during their youth, yet will never bond with a female, even after mating.
Male humboldt penguins can form lifelong homosexual relationships and will remain exclusively with their partner until one of them dies - in zoo populations at least one in 20 of all pairs of the bird are homosexual. Among king penguins, some birds show a preference for same-sex mates even when unpaired birds of the opposite sex are available.
The bonobe or pigmy chimpanzee is generally promiscous with partners of either sex - homosexual activity accounts for almost half of all sexual acts.
Female grizzly bears will sometimes bond with each other and raise their young as a family group, though no sexual behaviour has been recorded.
In captivity, some elephants of both sexes engage in homosexual activity, using their trunks to touch each other."
"Among the many British species with homosexual tendencies are red and grey squirrels, badgers, grey seals, red deer, mute swans and mallard ducks. Courting displays by garden birds such as sparrows, starlings, crows, magpies and blackbirds are also often targeted at same-sex partners."
"Bagemihl's research challenges the theory that homosexuality might be a natural way to reduce population size when a species becomes too numerous for its environment. Even in a species of bird such as the black stilt, of which fewer than 100 pairs are left in the wild, there are still female homosexual couples. He does not believe they pose any particular threat to the population's survival."
"Bagemihl discovered evidence of homosexuality among many other types of animal. These include lizards, tortoises, frogs, snakes, fish, beetles, dragonflies, butterflies, spiders and bees."
"Gay people have spent years opposing the argument that homosexuality is unnatural but Bagemihl's revelations will amuse rather than reassure them, according to Alan Sinfield, professor of English at Sussex University and an expert in cultural attitudes towards homosexuals. Sinfield said: 'They have tended to side-step the notion and say it doesn't matter what animals do - we're a more advanced species'."
But of course this is from a British paper....
Edited to say look at all them British species!! And the work's done by an American too!!
[This message has been edited by Lord of Little (edited 07-09-2001).]
I wonder if they have pride parades <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
Cheers <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
Second, the old argument that homosexualism must be wrong because an exclusively homosexual group would die out in one generation. True, the group would die out, but that's no evidence as to the morality of the sexual practice.
Nature abhors uniformity and embraces variety. Of course exclusive homosexualism isn't a valid strategy when it's in the majority: that follows pretty quickly from the definition of the practice. However, it's clearly a survivable strategy up to a point. How did it arise? Variation, as nature is wont to produce? How did it survive? Because it either has no discernable disadvantages or has some advantages in some situations. If a virus like AIDS has found a major chink in homosexualism's armour, then so be it. To make some moral judgement about the sexual practice based purely on its susceptibility to a given disease is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion.
So, is the AIDS virus (probably HIV) an example of Darwinsim? Is this natural selection at work? Yes, of course it is. The more virulent strains survive; the humans most susceptible to the virus (and those put in harm's way more often) die more. To say that AIDS is an example of natural selection is like saying that Windows is a Microsoft product.
[This message has been edited by MacKenZie (edited 07-09-2001).]
btw, there is no evidence for the origins of AIDS/HIV being due to homosexual activity.
(ps. please don't show me some 'evidence' that quotes from the bible, cos' I can see it comeing.)
I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I don't think AIDS is a product of homosexualism at all. The first confirmed cases do seem to have been in that group, though; they also transmit and receive the virus more easily, it would appear, that's all. :: Shrugs ::
Posted by MacKenzie:
"All right, let's begin with the standard opening shot in any argument about homosexualism: it's natural status. It is a natural phenomenon! "
A natural phenomenon? Get real. If women were to have sex with women and men to have sex with men, then bothe sexes would be born hermaphrodites and then hell, they wouldn't even need sexual partners because they would have both capabilities!
"Avauncez! To Defend and Serve!"
I freely concede (see above) that universal and exclusive homosexualism is not an evolutionarily stable strategy (ESS), but that is not the same thing as saying homosexualism itself is 'unnatural.'
[This message has been edited by MacKenZie (edited 07-09-2001).]
For several years, in the UK, the largest group of new infections has been through heterosexual sex, this year they were the majority.
Homsexuality is a good candidate for a positive darwinian selection pressure, which is why people searching for the "gay gene" aren't laughed out of the building, although even if genetic the incidence suggests a more complex interplay than is likely to be understood in the near future.
Xenophobia is also a good candiate.
Not once did I say AIDS originated in gay men. I did say it most often SEEMS to target them. as well as IV drug users that share needles.
some have proposed that humans contacted AIDS from eating the flesh of Reeces(sp?) monkeys that was not cooked properly. OK, why eat monkey flesh when we know beef is safe(at least over here anyway-morons)
if this is so, it is natural selection.
3legged mouse meets cat, mouse dies=ridding the mouse gene pool of defective mice.
retarded cat can't catch mouse, cat dies of starvation(unless some bleeding heart human feeds it) thus ridding the gene pool of a retarded cat.
medical professionals say to wear a condom when having sex to REDUCE the possibility of the spread of AIDS and other STD's
too stupid to follow the advice of the people who dedicate their life to medicine?
well in the case of orangey then I guess you get HIV then AIDS then die. His wife is one of the innocent victims of the process. It is still natural selection.
don't smoke it causes cancer-duh.
too stupid to follow this advice? then get cancer and die...natural selection.
I never argued the religio-moral battle of homosexuality. My religious beliefs are irrelevant. I look at things in a scientific perspective. But of course we have to have some politically correct whackoff come in and add the blatantly euro PC perspective.
frankly, organised religion is a crutch of our past generations to dictate what is acceptable human behavior and what is not.
Science is better.
Ultimately, whether you call it immoral, unholy, repulsive, acceptable or unacceptable, my honest thoughts are that the actions of societie's garbage will eventually cause it's downfall.
Solutions? yeah I have one, since all these queers are usually bleeding heart liberals why not be part of the cure rather than it's continued spread? Donate their already dying bodies to science and let the immunologists, epidemiologists, chemists and other scientists do expiriment on them.
Oh and for the real fruitcakes who cited the alledged homo animals, I have some questions for you.
1, who declared them as such, a homo-biologist?
2, are they on the threatened or endangered species lists?
if so it proved my point, animals only do what is needed to continue their existance and if they do something out of the ordinary they will most likely cease to exist.
I have a neighbor who had a dog that like to hump your leg. He had the damn thing neutered and now with no nuts he has no desire to hump legs. He will also never produce therefore eliminating the leghumper dog from the gene pool.
yes it's true queers are a dying breed. I wonder how long it will take before their misdeeds purge us all and only the so called gay animals will exist...
btw, balddog, mr perfect, you two are very inteligent. It's a damn shame intelligence is not as infectious as AIDS.
peace bros
There IS hope for you, actually, and you are on the way already, demonstrated by using a CAPITOL for Marine, rather than the lower case for soldier. You CAN be saved from your wayward ways...
OO-RAH!!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
Well that's a list I'd like to be associated with (sarcasm intended). Don't some of those creatures also eat their own feces? How does acting like an animal help your argument?
"I'd rather have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it."
Indeed that all humans are unnatural*, and to use the argument that homosexuality is unnatural is shows a comlete lack of thought.
*if unnatural has any meaning at all it has to be concerning the things that are found in humans but not nature, and vice versa
Do I understand correctly that you define necrophilia, pedophilia, murder, rape, slavery, etc. as NATURAL behavior, and therefore acceptable? laudable?
Just because some human creatures debase themselves within a perversion does NOT justify it...
No, you do not understand correctly.
I do not define such acts as natural; I have shown them to be natural, basing my proof on the assumption that humans are products of nature. I never said that they were, therefore, 'acceptable' (whatever that means) or 'laudable'.
You are quite right in saying that the existence of a behaviour pattern does not justify it. What you've run across is the old fact-value problem, the is-ought gap.
Tell me, why is homosexuality wrong? Don't dare tell me it's because an exclusively homosexual society couldn't survive. Almost any exclusively anything society couldn't survive. Variety is essential to survival.
Compared to normal, heterosexual males, practicing homosexuals (who usually have ~300+ anonymous anal sex partners per year)are 5X more likely to be infected with all the sexually transmitted diseases: Gonorrhea, syphilis, Chlamidia, venereal warts, HERPES, etc.
They are responsible for 78% of US AIDS cases.
They are ~5X more likely to have Hepatitis A, B & C, and drug-resistant TB.
They are 3-5X more likely to be addicted to drugs or alcohol, and ~5X more likely to suffer serious depression and commit suicide.
The average age at death of practicing homos is ~43 years..compared to ~72 for heterosexual males.
Cancer is a "variety" upon the norm. Is a cancer "essential" to the survival of the species?
Well, it might just be that having cancer confers some useful advantage to those suffereing from it. But that's beside the point, and you know it. I was talking about genetic, memetic, sexual &c. diversity, the survival advantages of which are really quite easy to see.
By Rage;-
"Oh and for the real fruitcakes who cited the alledged homo animals, I have some questions for you."
1, who declared them as such, a homo-biologist?
Bruce Bagemihl, biologist and researcher, taught linguistics and cognitive science at the University of British Columbia. He has written extensively on language, biology, gender and sexuality.
2, are they on the threatened or endangered species lists?
No.
Further to this;-
"I have a neighbor who had a dog that like to hump your leg. He had the damn thing neutered and now with no nuts he has no desire to hump legs. He will also never produce therefore eliminating the leghumper dog from the gene pool."
Sorry Rage, I fail to see what this has to do with evolution, natural selection or even selection pressure. It would be very relevant to an argument of acceptable dog behaviour within your neighbour's house, or even human/dog interaction.
Mr Perfect (from the centre of the Universe);-
"So according to Lord of Spittle in a post on page one, you homos compare your behavior to the following animals : bottlenose dolphins, penguins, pigmy chimpanzee, elephants, red and gray squirrels, badgers....etc"
I know you may find it hard to believe, but you are an animal unless you're trying to claim you're a plant, or possibly a mineral??
None of this is trying to justify being homosexual or any of the acts pertaining to being homosexual, I'm merely pointing out that not all sexual activity within the animal world has the direct aim of reproducing. Most is of course as not many animals have the year-round breeding season of H. Sap. As sex is important in social animals, and Nature will rarely leave such an important process to a single function, variety of purpose and practice is bound to arise.
Just because this variety does not fit with some moralistic thinking doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Only users lose drugs
Or even that it's wrong. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
---If only...................
If AIDS/HIV specifically targeted either homosexual or heterosexual parts of the population you could say it was an extra selection pressure on that part of the population. But as the virus works in the exact identical way no matter what the sexual orientation of the victim, it can only be considered a selection pressure on the species as a whole.