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Because it can't be that old if you are forever talking about how cool guns are.
hehe <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
Nah he must be a teenager for being safe in the knowledge that he is allowed by law to defend himself and his family.
Whowhere, have you ever touched a gun? They are immense amounts of fun to shoot. Remember that guns are for sport as well as defence.
"Politicians are the lowest form of life on the earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician" George Patton
Go paintballing then!
A weekend wasted, is not a wasted weekend! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/nogood.gif">
Not the same...I also dont feel the need to shoot 'at' other people.
Target shooting is a damn good sport..Some people say theres no point to it but the same can be said for any sport...For example Squash?? Hitting a ball round at super speeds inside a box. Sensible? Any point? Nope but it takes skill, same as shooting.
"Politicians are the lowest form of life on the earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician" George Patton
Guns ARE fun...dangerous weapons usually are except for the faint hearted.
When I was a boy I liked to hunt...gave it up after Viet Nam...hunting humans took the pleasure of the chase out of it for me.
Shooting on the range is just fine...or a bit of plinking down at the gravel pit with the full auto stuff....
Balddog, how can you stand living in such a constrained society? No flame to it but I can't imagine not being able to protect myself...and here you better be able to...we are surrounded by our own savages.
Diesel
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Short answer is 'I cant'.
I've no doubt that the current laws on self defence here in the UK dwell on that old British tradition of gentlemanly conduct..Rules of war and all that..If someone attacks me in my own home, I have to give that person a sporting chance to kill me..If he comes at me with a knive, I have to use a knife or something of lesser effectiveness to fight him with rather than a gun..If someone comes at me with a bat then im not allowed to defend myself with a knive.
Its truly a sad state of affairs when you have to consider going to prison for defending your families life from an attacker in your own home.
This has the danger of developing into a gun rights thread so we should stop now.
"Politicians are the lowest form of life on the earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician" George Patton
I am 62!
Sleep with an AK47 under my pillow...love young women (as they should be) and especially commieblock women.
My children are armed to the teeth and so are the grandchildren...even though they are still too young to shoot anything worthwile...commieblock girls tend to like guns too...goes with the past I guess.
And I have a 'gun' question for any servicemen or women on the board...what do you think of england's current service rifle? Dang thing confuses me...how do you use a bayonet on it? No point in cold steel if you can't use it...might as well issue pikes.
Diesel
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The SA-80 is a very good weapon to use. It sits comfortably, has minimal recoil for its power and is very easy to maintain. The bayonet clips to the front, and because of the rifle's compactness is very easy to use, so i've been informed. Apart from design flaws when used in extremes of temerature it is a very versatile weapon as it can use ammo from all over the world.
The SA80 is a valid subject for a politics board seeing as we are sending our troops into a possible war with faulty equipment. The Paras who are tasked with spearheading any movement into Afghanistan are equipped with this POS. The rifles which have been fixed and upgraded by H&K are still sitting in their racks waiting to be reissued.
"Politicians are the lowest form of life on the earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician" George Patton
Guns are just objects. They aren't the problem, and they aren't the solution.
We own several FN/FAL rifles, L1Al and Metric pattern, one Argentine and one Austrian G1...honestly, they are impressive rifles...easy to maintain, hold up well and are a lot of fun to shoot.
When I was in the service, US Army...a lllloooonnng time ago, we were trained with the M-1 Garrand and issued the XM-21 when we got to SE Asia...later to be titled the M-14...in a fight I would take the M-14 over anything else out there...but the FAL and HK-91 are certainly worthy seconds...an HK-21 would be awsome...may get one...but they are more than a main battle rifle.
I'm not an Enfield fan but the old warhorse could really take it and put out when needed...it is noteworthy that the Afgan fighters still have many of them in service...although the Russian SVD appears to be gaining as their sniper!
Considering that the Pakastanis are excellent gunsmiths it is likely that they are able to order just about anything they can afford...and folks wondered what they did with all those old ships.
Diesel
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If there are guns, people get shot. I can see your point about wanting to defend your family, that some nut will always find a way, but I have never held a gun and I don't want to. I'm a believer in strict gun laws, I've had enough of bullies throwing their weight around just because they have a gun. Look at that journalist that was shot here, bullies who want to take away freedom of speech, to scare people into letting them keep the status quo of fear.
You need to stop being such a hypocritial moron firstly N.I is rightfully the property of the British and so it is not the case that the British are occupying an area of the Irish State but quite the opposite.I also agree totally with peacechild on the holy cross dispute.Why mothers of little girls feel they can exploit them and use them as a tool to argue a point and then complain how their children are mentally scared by the situation they have been put in is totally ludicrous. Those mothers could have protected their children and shielded them from torment by using the other entrance to the school and then gone to argue their point without their innocent children being caught in the middle.I don't support the loyalist bomb throwing in any way however children did not need to be directly involved it was the fault of the parents that the children were put in that situation.Lastly Diesel I think that you should consider how in the light of the latest terrorist attrocity in America, America have basically declared war on Afganastan however have seen it correct for many years to support the IRA cause and so enable them to terroise N.I. how can this not be completely and utterly hypocritical.I am sure that you do not condone what was brought upon America but somehow it may make you realise that the IRA are also terrorists and no better than Osama Bin Laden and his cause.
A great many people disagree.
That sounds too much like a put down...let me soften it a bit. The Irish folk I know would lay down their lives to defend you, provide you with the means of defending yourself, and you would quickly note and find the chivalry in their hearts from such conduct...to fear to do as much for yourself causes me to wonder.
Of course, there was a fellow named Darwin a few years ago...survival of the fittest was his thing as I recall. Do try not to win any Darwin Awards.
Diesel
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WE DONT NEED GUNS DIESEL, as the majority of criminals are armed with little more than a broken bottle I think it is a bit extreme to shoot them, don't you think?
Why don't you listen to what you are saying? You are trying to argue your point to someone who lives with the troubles, you live thousands of miles away. How can you possibly think you have any authority to even discuss the subject? You don't live here and the only information you get about the conflicts are in biased anti-british journals posted on anti-British websites. I think you should stop posting such crap and come back when you have thought of a way to inform Kaz that her first hand experience of the events is not good evidence.
What Diesel doesn't realise is that survival of the fittest is not an accurate description of evolution. Have you read Dawkin's "The Selfish Gene" (a little outdated now - but a good analysis of why the unit of evolution is not the organism or the species, it's the gene), or maybe try Frans De Waal "Good Natured - the origins of right and wrong in humans and other animals" (great book). These books are part of the ongoing scientific search to explain why "survival of the fittest" does not ring true in the animal kindom. Altruism in apes etc. Why some birds only display macho showings instead of actually fighting. And partly perhaps to try to understand if the human concepts of mercy, self-sacrifice and love are as unique to us as we'd like to believe.
You're about 100 years behind present day evolutionary science, Diesel. That kind of arguement is the same Hitler used when he marched the Jews into gas chambers. Shall we award those Jews a Darwin award?
I have lived in America. I find it far scarier than living here. Gun culture breeds violence, as I've said before - it's all about power and power corrupts. I've managed so far without shooting anyone, thanks very much. Peace will not be achieved by arming everyone. Any idiot can see that would make matters worse. I have peace, because I know that I'm not a contributer to the problems here, there is a difference between them and me. I promote cross-community integration and working together for understanding. That's the way to go. If some asshole with a gun as a crutch for his ego shoots me for my purse, or my background, then it is he who has the problem, not me. He is at fault, not me. If I have to risk such a death to live in a society that sees it that way well then so be it.
I am Northern Irish, I have an interesting hertiage combining British and Irish influences. This is special, unique and I consider it a benefit, not a handicap. I hope that someday everyone here will see it like this and not feel obligated to sit on one side or the other.
I'm not sure where you picked up the idea that I'm a coward?? When did I say I would not lay down my life for others?
I am fighting to end the violence so others won't suffer. That to me is braver and more noble than petty revenge and a continuing cycle. The bully hiding behind the gun is the coward. The terrorists don't exactly fight fair, they use snipers and death squads, not open combat. What use would a gun be to those families shopping in Omagh that Saturday?
My choices are my own, not the result of fear. You don't know me Diesel.
As for a thug with a broken bottle or club, give me a gun against such any time...and the consequences be damed...better be judged by twelve than caried by six.
Honestly, it appears that NI needs an outside threat to bring both sides together...my main objection is the outside forces holding it together.
Diesel
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The support you give to the IRA terrorists makes you a terrorist now, does it not ?
something of a paradox, neh? the british forces were first sent in to the province to stop the violence between the two sides (mainly protestant-organised). this suppressed the tension, but did not make it vanish.
the threat of an outside force was used by the british army from the foundation of the irish free state, right up to the moment they were forced to act. it didnt succeed. however, when the troops were sent in (amid divided opinion in both communities) the violence slowed. the problem was still there, and is still there today, except now it is being tackled by negotiation. this may not work entirely, but the alternative hardly bears contemplation. had the british never sent in troops, it is highly likely that some hideous genocide would have taken place, and the catholics may have been persecuted and pushed out.
outside threats do not solve the problem in ulster. getting people to calm down and talk, on the other hand, at least goes some way further than nowhere. intervention on humanitarian grounds, backed up by genuine political effort, is not the same as threatening to beat the crap out of everyone on the streets.
to give peace a chance, first of all you have to start asking questions before you shoot. then you'll stop shooting. only then can the talking start.
NB: if i come across as pro- one side or the other in the ulster business, then i'm sorry. its just to play devils advocate, as it were.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
The conflict is not simple, the road not easy, and no one is without blame or prejudice. The peace process is not perfect but it is preferable to the alternative. Maybe eventually our parliment will be able to stand on its own two feet and Northern Ireland can concentrate on prosperity and rebuilding ties. Sometimes I watch the politians bicker on the news and I despair. Maybe I am naive to believe that it will happen. I refuse to give up hope though, for then all really is lost.
btw, there's nothing wrong with playing devil's advocate...otherwise we'd all be really bored.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/bigun2.gif">
Diesel
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I'm chuffed my wee corner of the world (u can drive across NI in about 2-3 hours) has generated 3 pages of debate.Without u Diesel, I would'nt be here getting the chance to stick up for the peacelovin people. Scary thought! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
I wasn't ignoreing you...well, maybe just a little.
I do fully support the IRA and their right to drive british forces out of Ireland. It is moral support since they have never ask me for money or anything else for that matter...though were they to come to US for guns they would certainly get them without a problem...truth is, they can get them cheaper over there...heck, a legal AK-47 cost about $300-500@ here and they can be had in E.Europe for about $12@!
Do I think that the protestants, english, who have lived there for hundreds of years should leave...only if they can't live in peace with other Irishmen and women...and to be honest with you...I can't personally tell them apart in speach or visage...and that comment is probably enough to piss off everyone.
Both sides in the fray need an outside enemy to bring them together...right now they have an outside force controlling the situation and neither side appear to be that fond of them.
Keep in mind for a moment if you will; The police are the worst element that society can put 'out front' to defend itself...from itself~! Imagine German police officers guranteeing the safety within London ~ and not liking their duty very much and I think you have a worthwile analogy.
Diesel
88888888
Maybe u should pack your bags and hand your back yard back to the Native American tribe your ancestors stole it off. If u want to use analogies.
See how silly u sound?
Come on over Kaz, we'll give you a cooks toure and take you out shooting...change you forever...and if you have red hair maybe marry you off to a rich American gun collecter...well...maybe...gun collectors always have wives that are for 'peace' and hate guns...he, he, heeee....I'm hoping you are seeing this as the jest it is ment to be.
Diesel
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