Balddog; this I R A story is for you...and all who love the children

Former Member

As a parent though, perhaps the mothers and fathers of these children dhould not have used their children in this fight. The simplest way to save them from the psychological trauma resulting in the protestant attacks was to not lead them to school that way.
What do you care about more, your childrens mental health or the cause of religious fundamentalism?

Former Member

Children going to school don't need their first leason to be; 'go in the back door dears...your catholic!'

First thing that the talaban did in Afghanistan was disarm all of their fellow citizens so they couldn't fight back against the terror imposed upon them....

I'm beting that england will soon be faced with islamic terror squads as were US...after which the IRA will seem more like friendly cousins than a threat to the ol pirate kingdom!

The world is a dangerous place...in the next couple of days it will become infinately more dangerous because all of islam will only be able to see US, all of us, as attacking islam...in the end we will probably have to nuke Mecca as a symbol of a failed god!

People in US are stocking up on everything imaginable...gun stores are selling out of just about everything except the 'antiques' and survival equipment and stocks are big sellers, even old army rations are selling well.

Speak to your parents and grand parents about shortages during the last big war...and pay attention to what they say...just good advice cousins...enjoy the war or join the war, it's up to you!

Diesel

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Former Member

Diesel, think about this; the money you and your fellow Americans have given in support of the IRA terrorists has helped the terrorists that bombed NY. The IRA help train islamic and other terrorists.

Well done own goal I think.

Former Member

Originally posted by byny:
As a parent though, perhaps the mothers and fathers of these children dhould not have used their children in this fight. The simplest way to save them from the psychological trauma resulting in the protestant attacks was to not lead them to school that way.
What do you care about more, your childrens mental health or the cause of religious fundamentalism?

I am a parent. I would rather teach my children that they should stand up to hatred and not let the bigots win. I would rather walk through the sea of hatred than sneak around the back. Whats next - you can't live in this street, town or country?

Where would YOU draw the line?

Former Member

Yes - but the fact is those mothers were on breakfast television sobbing about the psychological damage the situation had forced onto their children. If that was their main worry then they should have removed the children from that situation and I'm not saying take them throuogh the back door, but why bring them through the streets en Masse, subjecting them to the vicious taunts of a few uneducated protestants?

Former Member

Originally posted by byny:
but why bring them through the streets en Masse, subjecting them to the vicious taunts of a few uneducated protestants?

er..... because the mothers are uneducated catholics?

Former Member

Sorry byny, I don't get your point. What SHOULD those parents have done then?

They either walk through the crowd, sneak in the back way or don't send their children to school..which one?

Former Member

Personally I would have refused to walk as a crowd but taken my child by myself
as I normally would, and if a crowd of aggressive people decided to shout at us then I would have explained to my child that they had different ideas about things but that she should have enough self esteem to get on with her life and neither pity nor hate those people.
I would not have joined a group of people itching to make a ppoint to the Protestant community, using my child to make that point.

Former Member

Personally I would have refused to walk as a crowd but taken my child by myself

You dont think they might have been walking in a group for safety? I certainly wouldnt want to walk alone in a protestant area with my catholic child.

Former Member

>>>>>> Intense loyalist violence in North Belfast


North Belfast has been plunged into fresh violence following a
wave of loyalist gun, bomb and missile attacks over the weekend,
resulting in multiple injuries.

Loyalists threw stones, bottles, fireworks, pipe and blast bombs
from early afternoon. Houses were showered with pipe bombs
Newington Street, and there were reports of explosions in several
areas.

Shots were fired during loyalist assaults on nationalists at the
Clifton Park Avenue interface. A gunman at Alloa Street fired
towards a crowd on the nationalist Cliftonville Road. A
19-year-old woman was injured in the gun attack, according to
reports. One nine-year-old boy was hit by a brick on the
Limestone Road.

A number of workmen escaped injury when a pipe-bomb exploded at
the Brookfield Mill community centre in the Crumlin Road/Ardoyne
area. A second pipe-bomb failed to explode and was later defused.

A Sinn Fein councillor, Ms Margaret McClenaghan, blamed the
loyalist paramilitary UDA for the attacks which she said were
aimed at provoking a reaction from the nationalist side. "It's
only a matter of time before someone will be killed," she said.

The clashes came as loyalists prepared to resume their campaign
of sectarian intimidation at Holy Cross girls' primary school in
Ardoyne this morning.

North Belfast MLA Gerry Kelly accused the UDA of orchestrating
the violence: "It's a concerted attack on Catholics and it's
getting worse," he said.

"Children and adults are getting attacked in their homes and
there has been a minimum of 10 pipe-bomb attacks over the
weekend."

'PRISONERS'

Earlier, two blast bomb-type devices exploded during clashes
nearby. Stones, paint bombs, fireworks and pipe bombs were also
thrown when trouble flared at North Queen Street, close to the
loyalist Tiger's Bay area.

Residents of Hillman Street, whose homes face Tiger's Bay, said
they were awoken at 3am on Sunday morning by the noise of paint
bombs and rocks hitting windows and landing on roofs.

As they surveyed the damage to the houses yesterday, pensioner
Mary Lane said she discovered a device outside her front gate
which consisted of a piece of pipe packed with fireworks.

Her house was one of three adjacent to the Duncairn Gardens
junction which came under attack, despite being surrounded by 30
foot high fences.

Laminated shatter-proof window frames installed last week, she
said, were splattered with paint as were the walls and front
gardens.

"You are a prisoner in your own home living here," Mrs Lane said.

"We are not able to use the front of the house, something will
have to be done about this."

Mr Lane's neighbour, Theresa Bright, said the situation was
becoming worse because the attacks have been continuing, not just
throughout July and August as in previous years, but long after
the school holidays had ended.

"We need a finer mesh put up on this fence. We shouldn't have to
put up with this."

Another pipe-bomb was thrown at a group of children playing near
the interface.

Gerry Kelly accused loyalist paramilitaries of attempting to
heighten sectarian tensions. "It's ridiculous, it's out of order
and when things like this are used I can categorically say that
an organisation is involved." It was time for the British
government to clarify who they thought was behind the attacks in
north Belfast, he said.

Mr Kelly said attacks on nationalists were on the increase, but
he once again called for people on both sides of the community to
"pull together" and tackle the problem.


* Meanwhile, a Catholic green keeper is believed to have been the
target of pipe bombers in County Derry at the weekend. A pipe
bomb planted inside a metal bin exploded on Moyola Golf Club at
Castledawson on Saturday morning.

Local assembly members say there is a group of UDA paramilitaries
operating in the Castledawson area under different names who were
escalating attacks nationalists.

"This is an extension of attacks being carried out in the area in
the last 18 months on GAA grounds and Catholic schools," said
John Kelly.

(It's hard to keep up with the hate when we have a common enemy.)

Diesel

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Former Member

sickening isnt it...worst violence in 20 years apparently.

Lets just hope Tony Blair has the balls to round up ALL the terrorists in NI along with all the middle eastern ones.

Former Member

Diesel, you keep ignoring the FACT that a catholic ran down a prot schoolboy who was on his bike, to make sure they killed him they had to drive after him on the pavement.

It's called murder.

Lets hope Blair has the balls to sort ALL terrorists out.

Bush should soon be going after the IRA terrorist supporters in the USA soon then ?
or is it OK for us to bomb them ?

Former Member

How about a view from someone actually from Northern Ireland?! I read Diesel's messages, and it neve ceases to amaze me how people who have no idea what they are talking about act as if they know the whole story. I grew up knowing nothing but hatred and violence and I can tell you that my people should be divided into the violence makers and those who wish for peace, NOT Protestant/Catholic or Nationalist/Unionist or British/Irish. Just because I hold a political view about my country - whether it be that there should be a united Ireland or that NI should remain British - does NOT give me the right to kill someone who disagrees. This is a democratic country and those animals who strive to keep us living in fear and hatred are enemies of democracy and freedom. There is no nobilty in their "cause". That goes for all of them. The events at the school and on the streets cause heartbreak and pain for both communities, but reacting to that pain by continuing the cycle of violence only condemns future generations to the same pain. It occurs to me in the light of all the great speeches made in America about how the World Trade Terrorists and those who fund them have declared war on freedom and democracy. Look to your own back yard America and see how you have funded terrorst violence murder and hatred in my corner of teh world for over 30years. It is time for those speeches to apply to everyone including ourselves, not just those we decide are our enemies.

Former Member

Originally posted by kaz:
How about a view from someone actually from Northern Ireland?! I read Diesel's messages, and it neve ceases to amaze me how people who have no idea what they are talking about act as if they know the whole story. I grew up knowing nothing but hatred and violence and I can tell you that my people should be divided into the violence makers and those who wish for peace, NOT Protestant/Catholic or Nationalist/Unionist or British/Irish. Just because I hold a political view about my country - whether it be that there should be a united Ireland or that NI should remain British - does NOT give me the right to kill someone who disagrees. This is a democratic country and those animals who strive to keep us living in fear and hatred are enemies of democracy and freedom. There is no nobilty in their "cause". That goes for all of them. The events at the school and on the streets cause heartbreak and pain for both communities, but reacting to that pain by continuing the cycle of violence only condemns future generations to the same pain. It occurs to me in the light of all the great speeches made in America about how the World Trade Terrorists and those who fund them have declared war on freedom and democracy. Look to your own back yard America and see how you have funded terrorst violence murder and hatred in my corner of teh world for over 30years. It is time for those speeches to apply to everyone including ourselves, not just those we decide are our enemies.

Well said, kaz. I happen to hold the view that Ireland should be united and left to sort out its own destiny. I do not support the people who use violent means to that end, nor the people that use violent means in order to maintain the seperation of Ireland. I do understand the anger and frustration that some face in the light of both the war criminals (the English) and the terrorists (PIRA, Provos, etc.) that have waged war in our land.

Former Member

Thanx so much. I was rather nervous about my first posting.

I have the right to hold either an Irish or a British passport, and the right to my own cultural heratige and political opinion. So is everyone else, and that includes those who disagree with me!

I'm not going to state my position because it's a private thing and I don't want to argue Irish politics, I don't know enough about it to be honest so I'll shut up. I can only speak for my own experiences and my desire to live a normal peaceful life with all my neighbours.

We can but dream. Cheers.

Former Member

Originally posted by kaz:
Thanx so much. I was rather nervous about my first posting.

I have the right to hold either an Irish or a British passport, and the right to my own cultural heratige and political opinion. So is everyone else, and that includes those who disagree with me!

I'm not going to state my position because it's a private thing and I don't want to argue Irish politics, I don't know enough about it to be honest so I'll shut up. I can only speak for my own experiences and my desire to live a normal peaceful life with all my neighbours.

We can but dream. Cheers.

Lets just hope this finally puts Diesel in his place, and makes him realise that REAL people in Ireland don't support terrorists, unlike some of our US counterparts.

Former Member

Put me in my place if you can, doubt you have the years or wisdom to do it though.

Fact is, the IRA could not exist without NI support...just as the protestant factons could not exist without england...etc.

Just posting some of the latest news...found it interesting that they are considering amnesty for the 'criminal' freedom fighters who were so unjustly imprisoned by the english....

Diesel

88888888

Former Member

Originally posted by Diesel:
Fact is, the IRA could not exist without NI support...just as the protestant factons could not exist without england...etc.

Diesel, what is wrong with your eyesight? We have just had a post from someone who LIVES in Northern Ireland, and has completely disproven all you say about people in NI supporting the IRA. Why don't you take the hint..?

Former Member

And....can I add that having grown up in the most northerly part of the republic as an agnostic, and still having strong ties there - generally Irish people get along and do not support one side or the other. Catholic children go to school with protestant children and there is no hate from either side. The problems in N Ireland are created by a foolish minority

Former Member

hurrah for enlightenment! Glad to see not everyone believes the propaganda.

"protestant factions" indeed!!!!! You would think they got off the boat yesterday. Northern Ireland is majority protestant you know, but only just. It's their home, has been for generations upon generations. What about all the American Indians the settlers in the U.S. displaced? I hope Diesel realises he is just a "faction"!

I was at a friend's wedding last week - a protestant and a catholic getting married with both families joining together to celebrate their union.

I wish more people saw the positive sides of my country. It's a great place - I lived in America for a year and I was suprised at how much I missed this rainy corner of the world. You can take the girl out of her home, but you can't take her home out of the girl.

Former Member

Having lived in Australia the last 30-odd years, I have only heard the nasty side of the Irish story. I am grateful to you Kaz, and the other northern irelanders for your enlightenment.
Keep up the good work! I hope the destructive minorities finally sort themselves out... I'm sure peace in NI is achievable.

---

End of $0.02

Former Member

I too live in a rainy part of the world...and love it as well...honestly, I don't see the protestants leaving NI any more than I do the catholics.

What I do believe is necessary though is to get the english out...that being the army...let the people in country settle their own affairs...!

Open a gun store on neutral and let anyone wanting one buy whatever they wish, take it home and enjoy a bit of homegrown security.

If the truth is ever known I will not be surprised if the two sides found reason to like one another...but on their mutually accepted terms...not imposed agreements and such.

Diesel

88888888

Former Member

GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS - I see
It has nothing to do wit common sense and everything to do with a supposed right to bear arms! That's why the USA is so messed up.
Ban bullets!

Former Member

I notice the UK has managed to mess itself up to a massive extent even without the benefit of GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS.

Former Member

oh dear...and you were doing so well Diesel. I can see your point about the army, but someone needs to protect the innocents when there are riots. But then you had to go and spoil it all with talk of guns like it will bring people together. ??. Guns are the problem, not the solution.

Former Member

Has the UK Messed itself up. We don't have such a massive literacy problem
like the USA
We have a decent enough welfare state,
We have fewer incidents of loons going mad with guns in supermarkets
we have a sophisticated sense of humour
We don't need CNN to explain to use where Afghanistan is and
if this page is representative of our attitudes, we're not a bunch of racist, sexist Bigots who give guns with one hand and blast innocent victims with the other....
and we can identify terrorism too - like the IRA they are terrorists NO?

Former Member

We don't have such a massive literacy problem like the USA

Not yet...Take a look at London to see where our school system is going.

We have a decent enough welfare state

Its debatable whether thats a good thing.

We have fewer incidents of loons going mad with guns in supermarkets

We are keeping up with the US in terms of massacres. Our violent crime rate, including gun crime is rocketing while the US crime rate has been dropping consistantly for years.

we have a sophisticated sense of humour

Granted <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"&gt;

We don't need CNN to explain to use where Afghanistan is

Erm I think you will find that the average Brit is just as ignorant to middle eastern geography as the average American.

Have no doubts about it, the US is doing better than us. They have a higher standard of living, a better higher education system, a much smaller chance of being attacked, robbed, mugged or their car stolen. They are allowed to defend themselves.

If America is messed up then I dread to think what we should call the UK.

Former Member

byny, there are 'terrorist' on both sides, actually from here it looks like the unionist terrorist outnumber the IRA.

Yes...GUNS, GUNS, GUNS...I have them in every corner of my house...lovely to hold, shoot, admire...and just keep for their history...after the US War of Northern Agression against the South...Confederate troops were allowed to keep their rifles, pistols, shotguns, cannon...etc., when they went home...many families still have these guns and some still shoot, though the collector value now interferes with that.

NI needs a world class rifle and pistol range with alternating days for both sides to use it...sports have that way of bringing folks together...maybe work towards an Olympic shooting team.

In Afganistan after the taliban took over one of the first things they did was disarm all of their own citizens...resulting in the worst atrocities imaginable...and they continue...murdering women who dare to commit the crime of giving first aid services in a hospital...or learning to read!

Guns are the problem only when you can't get them and are prohibited from protecting yourselves...as you are now. england has a lot of surplus L1Al service rifles...give every household at least one for every adult...and a couple of cases of ammo to go with them...just like here in US...and get the occupying forces out of NI...and you will see an amazing quiet over the land...and armed people are a polite people...and this solution can't be any worse or more 'scary' than what has been going on. 'decomissioning' is all a bunch of horse feathers anyway.

Good morning cousins...we're having Irish weather here in Seattle today.

Diesel

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Former Member

Yes...GUNS, GUNS, GUNS...I have them in every corner of my house...lovely to hold, shoot, admire...and just keep for their history

DAMN YOU Diesel....rubbing my nose in it like that....How I wish for a gun friendly government...

Former Member

Baldon, better get off the 'ol pirate kingdom' ship of state...before it sinks.

Come on over...we'll take you out shooting...or just go yourself.

Diesel

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