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Why is there a conflict in Northern Ireland?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dragonfly:
    Doubro, (snip)....But the two thirds majority are descendants of the Protestant settlers who came in 1609 and were given land by Britain which was stolen from the Catholics. It is this group who want to stay part of Britain because they regard themselves as British...>

    If they regard themselves as "British" why don't they live there? I mean, it's pretty clear the name of the country they are in is "Ireland". And it's also agree upon that the English basically took the land without consent of the original inhabitants... so how can these people in good conscience say they are British, yet live in Ireland, and deny the Irish people a unified homeland?

    They don't have to move ... just admit that they were originally squatters (or theives depending on how you percieve it), but now at least let the country rule itself...


    <"The only solution to the troubles is for the two sides to work towards a socialist Ireland. There is even a cross sectarian socialist party in Northern Ireland called the SDLP, but its support is small."

    WHY THE (Insert nasty four letter word) is SOCIALISM the "only solution" ??????????

    Socialism is the 3rd most profoundly wrong system of government, right behind Facism and Communism. If that your "Solution", might as well just let the English rule you forever... It's the same friggin thing.

    Who cares if both sides "redistrubute" the wealth taking away economic freedom, whose name it's under. There's no real difference then between the Socialist English and the Socialist Irish is there?

    What a bunch of nonsense. Fighting for FREEDOM I can understand, but fighting for the oportunity to do to your own country what the English are doing to theirs, makes no sense.





    [This message has been edited by Doubro (edited 16-08-2001).]
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've learnt to avoid getting into IRA discussions with Americans but I can never help myself.

    Doubro,

    You, like most Americans, cant grasp the concept of Britain. Britain is just a political entity on a map. Its an umbrella term to cover the countries within.

    Great Britain = The physical island that contains England, Wales and Scotland
    United Kingdom The united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland. brought together by the act of union.
    EnglandOne of the 4 nations within the UK. England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland.

    Britain is a word used by foreigners..If I go out and ask people their nationality, the majority will specify English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish.
    They don't have to move ... just admit that they were originally squatters (or theives depending on how you percieve it), but now at least let the country rule itself...

    You mean exactly like the American settlers? You are squatters on the native Americans land(or thieves depending on how you perceive it).

    Let me pose a question....say in 10 years the population of Texas is 40/60 hispanic/white americans...Then some splinter group from Mexico started letting off bombs in malls across the USA in an attempt to force Texas to rejoin Mexico..Would you support this action? After all, Texas did used to belong to Mexico..You are after all just squatting on their land.

    Most of the protestant families in Northern Ireland have been there longer than most American families have been on their stolen land....Just how many generations does one need to stay in an area to call it home?
    WHY THE (Insert nasty four letter word) is SOCIALISM the "only solution" ??????????

    Well im afraid this just proves that you are the typical American, viewing the troubles through rose tinted glasses.

    The IRA and Sinn Fein are fighting in order to set up a SOCIALIST REPUBLIC...Its on their website, in their manifesto etc etc.
    the oportunity to do to your own country what the English are doing to theirs, makes no sense.

    ROFL, have you even looked at the makeup of the current government...Take a look at just how many are English...The Scottish MPs can vote freely on English issues but English MPs are banned from voting on Scottish issues..The English do not run Britain, we just pay for it.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doubro, how can socialism be one of the worst forms of government. Look at your own country the USA under capitalism you have got 2 million people in prison, tens of thousands of people homeless and one of the highest murder rates in world.

    Also Nicaragua was far better under the socialist government of the Sadanistas than it was under the Somoza dictatorship which they overthrew.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dragonfly:
    Doubro, how can socialism be one of the worst forms of government. Look at your own country the USA under capitalism you have got 2 million people in prison, tens of thousands of people homeless and one of the highest murder rates in world.

    Also Nicaragua was far better under the socialist government of the Sadanistas than it was under the Somoza dictatorship which they overthrew.

    In Russia Stalin had 6 million+ DEAD, see also China under Mao, Vietnam, Cambodia etc

    And in Cuba every one is free? I presume that no commits a crime in a socialist state?

    God knows capitalism isn't perfect, but socialism?

    Just an observation, but don't you think it weird that students are very left wing in their approach to the world. Then they step off campus, have a look at the real world, and realise that they are naive idealists.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man of Kent, Russia, China and Vietnam have never been socialist, if you have ever read the socialist worker or any other left wing paper like the morning star they you will see that Russia and China are state capitalist not socialist! Socialism means production for need not profit which never happened in these countries. The only thing remotely socialist about these countries was that they had a planned econemy with nationalised industries. The Nazis in Germany believed in a planned ecomeny with nationalised industries but did that make them socialists!

    [This message has been edited by dragonfly (edited 19-08-2001).]
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dragonfly:
    Man of Kent, Russia, China and Vietnam have never been socialist, if you have ever read the socialist worker or any other left wing paper like the morning star they you will see that Russia and China are state capitalist not socialist! Socialism means production for need not profit which never happened in these countries. The only thing remotely socialist about these countries was that they had a planned econemy with nationalised industries. The Nazis in Germany believed in a planned ecomeny with nationalised industries but did that make them socialists!

    [This message has been edited by dragonfly (edited 19-08-2001).]

    Which is why both the Socialist Worker and the Morning Star both openly supported the USSR right up until it collapsed. Until it failed USSR was held up by the left wing in this country as a shining light. Now the socialist claim that it was never a true socialist state anyway.

    Not much PR in a collapsed regime is there?


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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man of Kent, the Socialist Workers Party never supported the Russian government. It started out as the Socialist Review group of the Communist Party and was expelled from the Communist Party of Great Britain for stating that the Soviet Union was state capitalist and not a workers state in the 1960s. The slogan on the cover of the socialist worker paper used to be "neither Moscow nor Washington but international socialism". Also if people had sold the SWP paper in Russia when it called itself communist they would have been arrested for selling it. Click here to see what socialism really means.

    [This message has been edited by dragonfly (edited 19-08-2001).]
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dragonfly:
    Click here to see what socialism really means.

    Now THAT's funny <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"&gt;

    Socialism HAS been tried, just not this definition and in an ideal world, who knows it might even work. Problem is that it would take almost the entire population of the world to work towards the same goal to make it possible. Call me an old cynic, but I don't think that will ever happen.

    Can't fault you for being ideological (or illogical), but this is certainly a naive approach.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Doubro,

    You, like most Americans, cant grasp the concept of Britain. Britain is just a political entity on a map. Its an umbrella term to cover the countries within...

    <ROFL, have you even looked at the makeup of the current government...The English do not run Britain, we just pay for it.>


    Then why do the Scottish and Irish still want independance?

    <You mean exactly like the American settlers? You are squatters on the native Americans land(or thieves depending on how you perceive it).>

    I can, at the very least acknowledge that the Native Americans were the first inhabitants, and let them run their OWN sections of the country.(Northern "Ireland" clearly being in the "Irish" section of "Britan") Of course, the Native Americans never laid legal claim to the entire country. There were land disputes, treaties broken, and murders on both sides, but they had no national identity so to speak. Most were indigenous tribes without the concept of property rights until they were introduced to them by the settlers. A cohesive "American Indian" identity came about only as the European settlers expanded into the country and named them such. The Irish named themselves.

    <Let me pose a question....say in 10 years the population of Texas is 40/60 hispanic/white americans...Then some splinter group from Mexico started letting off bombs in malls across the USA in an attempt to force Texas to rejoin Mexico..Would you support this action?>

    No, because Hispanic Mexicans are not the original inhabitants of Texas or Mexico.


    <Most of the protestant families in Northern Ireland have been there longer than most American families have been on their stolen land....Just how many generations does one need to stay in an area to call it home?>

    I'm not telling them to leave their "Home", just to admit that they live in "Ireland", not Briton.

    WHY THE (Insert nasty four letter word) is SOCIALISM the "only solution" ??????????

    Well im afraid this just proves that you are the typical American, viewing the troubles through rose tinted glasses.

    The IRA and Sinn Fein are fighting in order to set up a SOCIALIST REPUBLIC...Its on their website, in their manifesto etc etc.>

    That's why I don't really care if they win... there's no difference between the elitist English Socialists redistributing their wealth and the new Irish "Socialist Republic" doing the same thing. Although, perhaps someday they will leave the Socialist ideal for a working Capitalist model... then if they win, maybe they'll be able to enjoy the fruits of their labors...








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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dragonfly:
    Doubro, how can socialism be one of the worst forms of government. Look at your own country the USA under capitalism you have got 2 million people in prison, tens of thousands of people homeless and one of the highest murder rates in world. >


    2 Million people... that's less than %1 of the population. However, the main reason there are more people in the U.S. prison system by ratio than in other so called "civilized" countries is simply due to the "War On Drugs"... which I say is one of the saddest and clearest examples of collective thinking gone haywire in the U.S.. Sure, we have socialists and Fascists here in the U.S. too. And that usually results in horrible public policy.

    If the Constitution was followed strictly, most drug arrests would be thrown out immediately, and nearly %75 of those 2 million people in prison would be free to get as high as they pleased.

    <Also Nicaragua was far better under the socialist government of the Sadanistas than it was under the Somoza dictatorship which they overthrew.
    >


    In your opinon. You can't use the pre/post examples of a civil war, as war is inevitably worse than peace. If you mean people were better fed by the Socialists, well, that Subsistence argument is lacking.


    Communism took 80 years to die in USSR, and the Cubans are
    truly a backwards economy. Neither country has done even close to as well as they would have through American style Capitalism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I do live in Northern Ireland and I'm from a loyalist background, so I can't speak for catholic side but unionists don't see themselves as being Irish they call themselves 'Ulster-scots'.

    Theres also problems with marches which are responsible for most of the recent violence.

    I've accepted that there will be a united Ireland but most protestants be opposed to this.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Earlier on it was mentioned about the empire, and our "expansionist" policies, does anyone care to think where countries like africa or australia would be without our rule all those years ago???
    There would be no schools, roads, hospitals, progress.
    Look what has happened to the the African nations that we left....they are in chaos, bickering amongst themselves for crap land and precious few resources. I didnt see the empire as a conquerin force, more as a manager or supervisor, yes maybe it was forced but at least the people living had access to food, water, education and health care.
    Pacman is right when he says a withdrawl from Ireland would be a bad thing. I personally want to see our troops come back, they are beine killed for nothing as well as the civilians there. But if they do withdawl then there is every chance that ireland will descend into the same depths as countries like sierra leone and Zimbabwaie.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah yes....the enlightenment and "civilisation" of the English. Destroy cultures and rebuild them in your own image, and call it a good thing. Bully for you, twit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Sean_K:
    Ah yes....the enlightenment and "civilisation" of the English. Destroy cultures and rebuild them in your own image, and call it a good thing. Bully for you, twit.

    It all depends on what you class as a civilisation. If you think a bunch of people lobbing shit and spears at each other, with no education/technology to think of is civilised then by all means you go and live that life. Just because their "civilisation" was old, doesnt make it good. Far from it, if they had a good civilisation then we wouldnt have been able to push ours onto them.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Sean_K:
    Ah yes....the enlightenment and "civilisation" of the English. Destroy cultures and rebuild them in your own image, and call it a good thing. Bully for you, twit.

    As opposed to the enlightenment and "civilisation" of the Americans, right? You know, the whole "If you don't worship commerce and the Dollar and agree to obey the USA, you're wrong and will be destroyed!" Bully for you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere:
    Earlier on it was mentioned about the empire, and our "expansionist" policies, does anyone care to think where countries like africa or australia would be without our rule all those years ago???
    There would be no schools, roads, hospitals, progress.
    Look what has happened to the the African nations that we left....they are in chaos, bickering amongst themselves for crap land and precious few resources. I didnt see the empire as a conquerin force, more as a manager or supervisor, yes maybe it was forced but at least the people living had access to food, water, education and health care.
    Pacman is right when he says a withdrawl from Ireland would be a bad thing. I personally want to see our troops come back, they are beine killed for nothing as well as the civilians there. But if they do withdawl then there is every chance that ireland will descend into the same depths as countries like sierra leone and Zimbabwaie.


    I really don't think we have too much to be proud of when it comes to the Empire. Part of the reason that these countries are unstable is BECAUSE they were part of our empire, part of the reason they have few resources is BECAUSE we took them to make our own country rich.

    If you don't see the Brits as a conquering force then what were we? It's not like we were invited into any of these countries by the citizens (that includes Ireland).

    As for management - these countries had survived for thousands of years before we even discovered their existence. They fed, watered and educated themselves to survive the conditions they experienced. This didn't fit with western culture of course and so we thought we'd 'educate' them - but not enough that they may rise against us of course. (even then we failed - fancy teaching them how to play cricket!)

    It one thing to love your country (as I do) but you should still be able to see when it does wrong.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In countries that Britain and other western countries did not colonise they too now have roads, schools, hospitals. For example Japan and China. Also the Africans were not such a backward population as people think. The ancient Eygtions for example were black Africans, there were also advanced civilisations in Ethiopia at the same time. This was long before western civilisation had been established. No one has mentioned the slave trade in Africa either. The slave trade devastated the African population. It has been estimated that at least 100 million Africans died during the slave trade. Of course it was not just Europeans that enslaved Africans but Arabs too. The reall reason for the European invasion of Africa was to exploit the continent for its natural resources to make wealth for the western rulers that was the reason for the establishment of empires by European countries.

    Also it was the colonialists fault that there were wars in Africa when they left as it was them that drew up the borders and them that sold them the arms to fight with. And look at the suffering that was caused by the creation of the country South Africa in which most of the land was owned by whites and the native black population which vastly out numbered the white population was kept in poverty. South Africa also declared war on its neighbouring countries causing extreme suffering in those countries. This was one of the results of European colonialism in Africa.



    [This message has been edited by Steelgate (edited 01-09-2001).]
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    . For example Japan and China

    Yup gotta admit..That china..great place to live init..hospitals, schools? hmm maybe if youre a party member.

    The ancient Eygtions for example were black Africans

    ROFLMAO..I love this afrocentric revisionism..The Egyptians were most certainly not black.
    No one has mentioned the slave trade in Africa either. Of course it was not just Europeans that enslaved Africans but Arabs too

    Oh man, you are special..I suppose you think the evil white men and arabs jumped off their boats and rounded up the slaves with sticks and nets right??? THE BLACK AFRICANS SOLD THEIR COUNTRYMEN TO WHITES/ARABS. Africans have been trading in slaves for thousands of years...long before any white man set foot in africa..Hell they are still doing it today...Dont you dare totally blame slavery on the europeans and arabs, the black chieftans of africa were the ones who rounded up the slaves and got them to the ports. Go to the Sudan and tell me how many europeans and arabs are involved in the child slave trade there right this minute.
    The reall reason for the European invasion of Africa was to exploit the continent for its natural resources to make wealth for the western rulers

    Yes thats quite obvious..Why would anyone invade any other country if not for resources? Its been going on ever since the dawn of man.
    Also it was the colonialists fault that there were wars in Africa when they left as it was them that drew up the borders and them that sold them the arms to fight with

    AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA this is classic stuff. So there were no wars in africa before the europeans got there right? All the little africans lived together on their continent in peace, all holding hands round the campfire???? Dont make me laugh, africa was just as violent and barbaric as any other country back then.......Oh and we gave them the arms to fight with..I see so because the africans didnt have guns before we came, they didnt fight? they had been slaughtering themselves for thousands of years with hand weapons..If you set your mind on killing someone you dont just stop because you dont have a gun.




    "An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe you would prefer Thailand as an example. Never a colony. Sits between the colonies of Britain (Malaysia and Burma) and the colonies of France (Cambodia and Laos). And has a better quality of life than all of them. And its culture is its own.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You want to start judging empires? May I humbly suggest that we do it by the state of the colonies they vacated?

    Compare former-British colonies with those of France, Belgium, Holland, Germany (the sausage factory and gardens). You'll find that our former lands are, by and large (there are exceptions, of course), in a far better state that their French / Belgian / Dutch counterparts.

    Just a thought.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not willing to compare a country that was never a colony?

    So, what exactly are you saying? That the English fucked up countries less than the French, Germans and Dutch?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Balddog, The ancient Egyptions were certainly black. I am not saying that ancient Egypt was a perfect society, ancient Egypt was an imperialist country like other early civilisations. The arabs later invaded north Africa and settled in Egypt. I don't support the Chinese regime or even Japanese capitalist one but it shows that you don't need an invasion to bring hospitals and schools to a country. On the issue of slavery arabs were the first to enslave Aficans and later the europeans. The reason that different tribes sold each other was because the european invaders set one tribe up against another and enslaved the losing tribe. Africa was not a perfect society before the arabs and europeans came that is why they had trbal wars. But these wars were nothing like the bloody battles that are fought in Africa today. And it was european colonialists that drew up the borders of Africa and created apartheid South Africa. Slavery still exists in parts due to corrupt African rulers. Africa is far from a perfect society because it is now part of global capitalism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The ancient Egyptions were certainly black

    Sorry but thats been proven untrue time and time again.
    The reason that different tribes sold each other was because the european invaders set one tribe up against another and enslaved the losing tribe

    Ah NOW I see....there was no slavery in Africa before the Europeans came?..So when exactly did the europeans start doing this? Before that date they were all sit round in the sand making daisy chains right?

    Slavery has been a part of every single culture there ever was. There was slavery in pre-roman britain..You honestly believe that africa is the only place on earth that developed without slavery?

    Oh wait a minute...Those BLACK egyptians...If I remember rightly they had a couple of slaves.

    I like how you justify ALL your arguments by ending them saying...BUT it is now a part of global capitalism.

    Are you black Steelgate?

    "An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IRISH NEWS ROUND-UP
    http://irlnet.com/rmlist/

    Tuesday-Thursday, 28-30 August, 2001


    1. £100,000 COMPENSATION AFTER RUC BEATING
    2. Adams criticises SDLP's policing stance
    3. Family's lucky escape in double pipe-bomb attack
    4. RUC baton nationalists in Ballycastle
    5. Loyalists target fair again
    6. Derry UDA abduction attempt
    7. Student accommodation crisis
    8. Feature: The Daily Reality of Israel's Occupation
    9. Analysis: Colombia spook set-up
    10. Events in Ireland and Britain




    >>>>>> £100,000 COMPENSATION AFTER RUC BEATING



    Belfast nationalist Bernard Griffin is believed to have received
    a #100,000 out of court settlement after he was beaten by two RUC
    men in February 1998 and later falsely charged with possession of
    explosives.

    In the early hours of 2 February 1998, Bernard, who was then just
    19, was forced into the back of an RUC Land Rover as he stood
    waiting for a burger after leaving a local GAA club in North
    Belfast. It was the start of a frightening ordeal that has run on
    over three years.

    Griffin said: "It was terrifying, they forced me into the back of
    the Land Rover and started to to beat me about the head with a
    wooden baton, calling me a Fenian bastard.

    "Then they tried to pull up my shirt, a Celtic top, over my back
    and started to beat my back. All the time they were shouting
    sectarian abuse into my face."

    The RUC men then threatened to have Bernard shot by the LVF and
    threatened to drop their young captive off in the loyalist
    Shankill Road area.

    "I thought I was never going to get out of that Land Rover alive"
    said Griffin, "I was glad to get to Old Park Barracks on the
    Antrim Road."

    False charges that Griffin had assaulted the RUC men were then
    brought against the North Belfast man, all of which were
    subsequently dropped. But this was not the end of the RUC
    campaign against Bernard Griffin.

    The three RUC men and the British Army soldier in the Land Rover
    were all placed under investigation after the brutal assault. But
    as their cases came to the High Court in September 1999, RUC men
    from Greencastle RUC barracks raided Griffin's home.

    It was claimed that a coffee jar bomb was discovered. To this
    day, Griffin's solicitor has yet to discover if there was any
    material evidence to support this charge.

    Despite the RUC claims, the explosives charges were dropped, but
    not until Bernard had spent three months in a young offenders'
    centre and his brother had been held for several days.

    While the RUC refuse to accept any responsibility for the 1998
    attack, the #100,000 compensation paid to the two brothers and
    the jail sentences handed out to the two RUC men responsible for
    the beating point to a clear attitude within the ranks of the
    RUC.

    The RUC disciplinary investigation was closed last November, but
    Bernard Griffin still wants to know what action is planned
    against the Greencastle RUC men who raided his home in 1999 and
    claimed to discover the coffee jar bomb, which has since
    mysteriously disappeared.

    Bernard's brother, Kenneth, was again targeted in 1999 as he
    travelled to Britain to pursue his studies. As he passed through
    a Scottish port, Kenneth was singled out by Special Branch
    officers and held for four hours. He was offered #300 cash in
    return for acting as an informer. He refused point blank and was
    subsequently released without charge. Since then, he has been
    visited a number of times at his term time address.

    In a possibly related incident, only last weekend Bernard Griffin
    was again targeted by RUC men as he left a GAA club in North
    Belfast.

    Griffin admitted that the RUC campaign against him and his
    brother had turned his life into a nightmare. He added that
    although he had read and knew of this level of violence and
    cover-up in the RUC, he had never expected to be caught up in the
    web of RUC deceit himself.

    "It was a case of being a young man from a nationalists area,
    minding my own business, being in the wrong place at the wrong
    time," said Griffin.

    In a message to any young nationalists thinking of joining the
    RUC, Bernard Griffin said he couldn't recommend it until there
    were decent reforms.

    "It is always there, in the back of your mind, that the RUC will
    try and get revenge" added Griffin.




    >>>>>> Adams criticises SDLP's policing stance


    Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams said that the endorsement of the
    policing plan by Dublin and the rival nationalist SDLP was "a
    setback to the search for proper policing".

    He described the SDLP's support for the latest draft of the
    British government's policing plans as "premature" and "short
    sighted".

    "It is not entirely a surprise. The SDLP's position on policing
    has always been a minimalist one and it has been under
    considerable pressure from the unionists as well as London and
    Dublin on this and other issues."

    There are early indications that John Hume's party is losing
    further ground to Sinn Fein on the policing issue. In a recent
    televised debate, SDLP finance minister Mark Durkan proposed the
    motion that nationalists should back the police service while
    Sinn Fein chairman Mitchel McLaughlin opposed the motion. The
    motion was defeated by 57 votes to 23.

    The areas specified by Sinn Fein where the current Police Act and
    Implementation Plan fail centre around: the new human rights
    aath; the powers of the Policing Board, Chief Constable, and
    British Secretary of State; collusion and the Special Branch; the
    representativeness of the new service; the remit of the Oversight
    Commissioner; plastic bullets; and the handling of inquiries into
    controversial killings.

    "Maybe after the recent election results the SDLP felt it needed
    to take an initiative," said Adams. "It certainly has done that.
    But at what cost? The sensible thing was for all the parties
    representing nationalist Ireland to stand together until the
    British government delivered on its obligations. That way a sense
    of a consensus would have been maintained.

    "More importantly the British government would have had to move.
    Instead it has been allowed to play the oldest trick in the book.
    It is divide and conquer time again...

    "And all of this is on top of an unrelenting campaign of gun and
    bomb attacks by loyalists. Last week witnessed a mass
    demonstration by the illegal UDA, the group mainly responsible
    for these attacks as part of its opposition to the Good Friday
    Agreement. But the British Secretary of State insists the UDA's
    ceasefire remains intact. He should try explaining that to their
    victims."

    Meanwhile, Gerry Kelly, a Sinn Fein representative for North
    Belfast, said his party intended to ask the Police Ombudsman to
    investigate why the RUC was staging swoops on nationalists in
    Ardoyne while loyalist violence has continued.

    A total of 12 arrests were made in Ardoyne this week in
    connection with serious clashes between local youths and RUC on
    July 12th.

    Mr Kelly is also seeking to determine how many RUC men have been
    questioned over attacks on a peaceful nationalist protestors and
    other residents during the confrontations.




    >>>>>> Family's lucky escape in double pipe-bomb attack



    The father of a family of six, speaking after they had a lucky
    escape from a double pipe-bomb loyalist attack on their home in
    Ballynahinch in the early hours of Wednesday morning, has
    described a litany of loyalist attacks they have endured.

    The man, who wishes to remain anonymous because the risk to his
    life, has said that this is the second time within a month that
    his home has been targeted by loyalist pipe bombers, and that
    only two months ago his car was destroyed in an arson attack.

    Within the same few streets in Ballynahinch, there have been four
    other pipe-bomb attacks within the last number of months.

    Sinn Fein councillor for the Ballynahinch area, Francie Braniff,
    has said that he "is in absolutely no doubt" that the UDA were
    behind the attempt to kill the Catholic family.

    "It was only through good fortune that nobody was killed or
    injured in last night's atack," said the Sinn Fein Ballynahinch
    councillor. "Only a matter of weeks ago I met with the British
    State John Reid and presented him with a dossier of UDA activity
    in the area" added Mr Braniff.

    "It is clear that Mr Reid has chosen to ignore the reality of
    this UDA activity, instead relying upon a 'security' assessment
    from RUC boss Ronnie Flanagan that the UDA and UFF are still on
    ceasefire. John Reid has ignored the warnings about
    Ballynahinch."




    >>>>>> RUC baton nationalists in Ballycastle



    Sinn Fein Ballycastle representative Philip McGuigan has accused
    the RUC of heavyhanded tactics in forcibly removing local
    residents from a peaceful public meeting in Ballycastle at the
    weekend before this week's fair.

    On Saturday, the RUC broke up a public meeting at the junction of
    Atlantic Avenue and Rathlin Road. The gathering was called to
    express concern at the loyalist parades taking place throughout
    the town.

    Maguire said that residents had informed the RUC that they
    intended to hold a peaceful meeting and then disperse. As so
    often in recent months, however, the RUC ignored the residents'
    requests and moved in using Land Rovers and batons to force
    people off the road.

    A local resident said: "We came here to voice our concerns over
    sectarian parades taking place in our town. We told the RUC that
    it would be peaceful and they turned on us. What does that tell
    you about our new impartial police force? Nationalists have been
    attacked by the RUC on their own streets to allow a group of
    anti-Catholic bigots flaunt their sectarian regalia in the face
    of people who don't want them in their area."

    Two SDLP councillors who stood by and watched as the RUC forced
    local residents from the area, failing to intervene, have also
    been strongly criticised.

    "The two councillors stood by and watched as the RUC batoned
    innocent people. You have to ask is this how they plan to act
    when they take up their positions on the proposed Policing
    Boards?" said McGuigan.





    >>>>>> Loyalists target fair again



    The loyalist paramilitary Red Hand Defenders, a cover name used
    by the UDA and LVF, planted two further bombs in Ballycastle,
    County Antrim on Wednesday in the aftermath of the defusing of a
    massive car-bomb in the heart of Auld Lammas Fair the day before.

    Pipe bombs were defused at the Marine Hotel in North Street and
    at Boyd's bar in the Diamond. But a major atrocity was narrowly
    averted on Tuesday, when tens of thousands of fairgoers and
    stall-holders were forced to evacuate the area after a large
    incendiary device was discovered in a car parked in Castle
    street.

    The device was uncovered by the smell of leaking gas ermerging
    from the car. Although the bomb was primed to detonate
    automatically, one spark could have created a fireball at any
    time. The potential for serious injury and loss of life at the
    height of the traditional town fair was massive.

    Although the UDA "ceasefire" is now widely recognised to be
    non-existent, some reports have also suggested that the rival
    paramilitary UVF may have been responsible for the Ballycastle
    bomb and a smaller device in Cargan two months ago.

    North Antrim Sinn Fein representative Philip McGuigan has called
    on the RUC to state whether it believed that loyalists in the
    area had abandoned their ceasefire.

    "Loyalists are intensifying their attacks on nationalists. The
    pogrom against Catholic people of the area is a very worrying
    development. It is very sinister attack against the thousands of
    people attending what was a family day out" said Mr McGuigan.

    Moyle Sinn Fein councillor Monica Digney said that the bomb had
    the potential to result in hundreds of injuries and scores of
    deaths. "An estimated 250,000 visitors attended the two day fair,
    one of the oldest festivals in Ireland and Castle Street is one
    of the main thoroughfares into the fair," she said. "The
    potential for serious injury and loss of life at the height of
    the fair was massive. We have the political instability created
    by David Trimble's stated aim of creating crisis and getting the
    political institutions suspended being filled by loyalist
    violence.

    "The Auld Lammas Fair is one of the most important events in the
    area. Loyalists appear to want to cause maximum chaos and loss of
    life in a bid to further destabilise the peace process," added
    Digney.

    The Sinn Fein chairman, Mitchel McLaughlin, has said the
    loyalist "ceasefires" have broken down across the board, with the
    UDA linked to over 200 gun and bomb attacks. He said the reports
    implicating the UVF in the Ballycastle bomb were worrying.

    Mr McLaughlin accused British Secretary of State John Reid and
    the RUC Chief Ronnie Flanagan, of providing political cover for
    loyalists by merely threatening to review the ceasefires. "There
    is a blind-eye policy from the NIO," Mr McLaughlin claimed.

    "If it was the IRA that were involved in 200 gun attacks or bomb
    attacks they would be jumping off the skyscrapers in indignation
    about it."



    >>>>>> Derry UDA abduction attempt



    Sinn Fein Derry Cityside Councillor Barney O'Hagan has accused
    the UDA of attempting to abduct a man in the Abercorn Road area
    of the city in the early hours of Friday morning.

    Barney O'Hagan said: "I was contacted on Friday by a local man
    who had escaped an abduction attempt at the junction of Wapping
    Lane and Abercorn Road.

    "The man, who was extremely upset as a result of the ordeal, was
    confronted by two loyalists and what appears to have been a
    weapon was put to his head and he was forced go up Wapping Lane.

    "Only his quick reactions and sheer luck prevented Derry looking
    at a sectarian murder" added O'Hagan.

    The Sinn Fein councillor said he was in no doubt that the UDA was
    orchestrating these attacks.

    ESCALATING WATERSIDE ATTACKS

    Fourteen households were evacuated from the Waterside area of
    Derry after a pipe bomb attack on a Catholic family on Saturday
    morning.

    On Sunday morning, a number of families were again forced to
    leave their homes when an elderly Catholic couple were targeted
    just yards from the scene of the first attack.

    Local people have described the attacks as "pure intimidation".
    These latest attacks come after sectarian tensions escalated
    during the July Orange Order marching period, when windows were
    smashed, cars were damaged and UDA flags and banners saying 'Kill
    All Taigs' adorned the once mixed area.

    BANDSMEN THREATEN YOUTHS

    Sinn Fein MP Michelle Gildernew and Councillor Seamus Flanagan
    have hit out strongly at the assault of a nationalist youth by
    loyalist bandsmen at the Black Saturday parade in Ballygawley at
    the weekend. A group of four local youths were confronted by a
    number of loyalist bandsmen from outside the area and after
    coming under verbal sectarian abuse, one of them produced a knife
    and threatened to kill the youths.

    The RUC were contacted and said there was nothing they could do
    in such circumstances. Cllr Flanagan that the nationalist village
    had accommodated the Orangemen and were thanked with the threat
    of violence. He has called publicly for a meeting with the
    organisers of the parade and stated that such physical threats of
    violence against the local people of the area did not bode well
    for the chances of another such parade in the nationalist town.

    "The days are long gone when the loyalists can march up and down
    our streets and keep 'the croppys down'," he said. "What happened
    on Saturday last was not an expression of culture but an
    expression of naked hatred towards nationalists in their own
    town."




    >>>>>> Student accommodation crisis


    Sinn Fein Dublin South Central representative Aengus O Snodaigh
    has expressed his support for the Union of Students in Ireland's
    call for government action on student accommodation. USI is
    demanding the government to introduce policies that would
    encompass what they call the three F's - Fair rent, full tenants'
    rights and further investment in student-purpose accommodation.

    "Every year, thousands of students go through the difficult
    process of attempting to find suitable accommodation," said O
    Snodaigh. "But this year the problem seems to be worse than ever.
    Student accommodation is often wholly inadequate and conditions
    appalling. Those premises that are liveable in are financially
    above the means of most students. We are now seeing a situation
    where students are working up to 40 hours a week, alongside their
    time in college and at study, simply to afford a sub-standard
    place to stay. Others are travelling up to 100 miles daily
    because accommodation simply cannot be found in the urban
    centres.

    "Government action is needed on this issue. Accommodation must be
    provided by the state. That accommodation must be of good
    standard and be reasonably priced. Students can no longer be
    expected to live in squalor and in poverty. We have now reached a
    crisis situation. Resources must be invested into this vital
    community."


    * USI and the Union of Secondary Students have also this week
    called on second-level students to return to school after the
    summer break. The student body is concerned that many students
    who have been working over the summer months will be attracted by
    offers of continued employment to the detriment of their
    education. "Part-time work can often be beneficial to students
    both financially and in terms of work experience," said Richard
    Hammond, USI resident, "but in the longer term education has
    greater benefits for the individual, the economy and society."




    >>>>>> Feature: The Daily Reality of Israel's Occupation

    By Chris Smith (MERIP Press Information Note 66)



    As soon as the Israeli army jeep disappears around the bend, a
    dusty minivan emerges from the grape fields outside Beit Ummar, a
    farming town in the southern West Bank. Revving the engine as he
    accelerates into the turn, the driver leans out the window and
    yells, "Go! Go!" On cue, eight Palestinian workers bolt from
    their hiding places in the bushes and run alongside the van,
    jumping in as it tears down the empty highway. After just a few
    hundred yards, the van turns back into the fields to evade an
    Israeli armoured personnel carrier at a checkpoint down the road.
    To get here, the van had followed a tortuous dirt path over the
    hills from Bethlehem - in which a five-minute drive became an
    hour-long journey. The return trip would be just as gruelling.

    Up the highway at another checkpoint, two taxi drivers stand
    under the midday sun, their minivans impounded for trying to pass
    the roadblock.

    "Since 7 am we've been here," says one of the men, pointing to
    his watch.

    "They took our identification cards." Upon hearing this, an
    Israeli soldier lounging in the shade tells him to shut up.

    Like much of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Beit Ummar is
    effectively blocked off - in this case, by four Israeli army
    checkpoints in little more than a mile. Palestinian traffic is
    barred from most major roads and, to avoid the roadblocks,
    Palestinians spend hours bumping over rutted donkey tracks or
    traversing olive groves. The penalties for getting caught can be
    severe: residents and human rights groups report that soldiers
    often confiscate car keys and shoot tires out, and have detained
    and beaten travellers.



    DAILY REALITY OF OCCUPATION

    Such cat-and-mouse games have become common all over the Occupied
    Territories since the second intifada began last autumn, when the
    Israelis clamped down on Palestinian movement with a policy
    called "internal closure." Closure is less dramatic than Israel's
    headline-grabbing assassinations of Palestinian leaders, such as
    the August 27 killing of Abu Ali Mustafa, head of the Popular
    Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). But the closures
    are the daily reality of occupation for most Palestinians, who
    often find it impossible to move from one town to another -
    whether to go to work, to visit relatives or to get to school.

    Beit Ummar has been under closure for most of the summer. "We're
    like birds in a cage," says the manager of the local power grid.

    Internal closures are nothing new - the IDF first introduced them
    in 1996, following suicide bombings inside Israel - but
    Palestinians say they have gotten tighter and more widespread in
    recent months. ("External closures," by which Israel prohibits
    Palestinian workers and goods from entering or passing through
    Israel, were first employed in March 1993.) By the Palestinian
    Authority's latest count, there are 97 manned checkpoints in the
    West Bank and 32 in the Gaza Strip, allowing the IDF to shut down
    Palestinian movement at will.

    An Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman avers that internal
    closures are necessary security measures. "Internal closures
    around cities are based on intelligence assessments of specific
    threats," he says. "When [Israeli] intelligence knows that
    terrorists are planning to leave a city, we'll institute a
    closure. It prevents a large number of terrorist attacks. It's
    not 100 percent effective, but it does help." But to the Israeli
    human rights group B'Tselem, the closures are simply collective
    punishment. "The sweeping nature of the restrictions imposed by
    Israel, which are not directed at specific individuals who
    constitute a security danger, but indiscriminately against
    millions of people," turns the closure policy into a "clear form"
    of collective punishment, according to a January 2001 report
    published by the organisation.



    ONCE THRIVING TOWN

    In the West Bank, the closure is perhaps most consistent in
    Jericho, the once thriving tourist town in the Jordan Valley.
    Flanked by bare brown hills to the west and the Jordanian border
    to the east, the city is almost totally cut off from the outside
    world. There are only three roads in or out: one to Jordan across
    the Allenby Bridge, one to the north and one to the south.

    Nowadays, all three are often shut tight by army barricades.
    Non-Jericho residents and foreigners are denied entry, and locals
    are only intermittently allowed in or out. On a recent visit, all
    three roads had been closed for four days. The southern
    checkpoint was deserted - no taxis, no people, just Israeli
    soldiers in wraparound sunglasses drinking orange soda.

    No has counted the days of total closure in Jericho, but its
    effects are obvious. Tell al-Sultan, an archaeological site
    holding the remains of the oldest city in the world, sits
    forlornly at the edge of an empty parking lot. Nearby hotels and
    restaurants are shuttered, and the newly built gondola - designed
    to whisk tourists up from town to a monastery on the mountainside
    - hasn't moved since October. Its cherry-red cable cars hang in
    the air, swaying slightly in the breeze. Arabic pop music,
    startlingly loud in the silence, drifts from a radio in the
    distance.

    At Tell al-Sultan, the ticket-taker sits in the shade chewing his
    lip.

    "Every month there were 10,000 people, 14,000," he says. "Now
    there's no one. The parking lot was so full of buses we couldn't
    hold them all. They spilled out into the street." He sold six
    tickets last month - about average these days, he says. According
    to the city's department of tourism, from October 1999 to
    February 2000, approximately 35,000 tourists visited Jericho each
    month. From October 2000 to February 2001, the number of monthly
    visitors was no more than 10.

    The ticket-taker is lucky. He still has a job, and the
    Palestinian Authority (PA) still pays him, if not always on time.
    By local estimates, some 80 percent of Jericho's workforce is now
    unemployed. This figure - double the United Nations Special
    Coordinator's estimate for the Occupied Territories as a whole -
    is in line with the numbers in the destitute Gaza Strip. More
    than 500 jobs were lost as hotels and restaurants shut their
    doors. The town's biggest moneymaker, the Austrian-run Oasis
    Casino, laid off all 1,500 of its employees in November. In
    addition, the closure prevents farmers from taking their produce
    to market and rural Palestinians and Bedouin from reaching the
    Jericho hospital, which is the only one in the area. Iman Amleh,
    who directs three Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committee
    (UPMRC) clinics in outlying villages, says that even she has
    problems passing the checkpoints sometimes, despite official
    permission from the Israeli authorities. "It's really miserable,"
    she says with a shrug.

    Jericho's isolation makes it especially vulnerable to the
    closure. "It's impossible to close Ramallah [completely] - there
    are houses all the way from Jerusalem," says Mohammad Attiyeh, a
    general practitioner who works at a local UPMRC clinic. "But
    Jericho is an oasis, all by itself."



    GAZA AND JERICHO FIRST

    The remote but strategically important Jordan Valley has seen
    less Palestinian guerrilla activity than the rest of the West
    Bank, but the IDF has tightened the closure here as the months
    have worn on. Shortly after the February election of Israeli
    Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the army began digging a network of
    trenches - six and a half feet deep and almost as wide - along
    the town's eastern, southern and northern reaches, with the
    declared aim of preventing Palestinian attacks on Jewish settlers
    driving on a nearby bypass road. On many days, the only way in or
    out is through the desert to the west in cars rugged enough to
    stand the journey. Even then, residents and rights groups claim
    that the IDF sometimes bars the way with tank patrols. On one bad
    day in June, locals say, soldiers made a taxi driver strip to his
    underwear and dance for them. They also say that soldiers forced
    another driver to drop to his knees and bark like a dog.

    Jericho, ironically, was one of the first cities transferred to
    PA control following the 1993 Oslo accords. The first phase of
    Israel's "redeployment" under these accords was known as "Gaza
    and Jericho First." Amid great fanfare and international
    approval, Israeli troops pulled out of Jericho in 1994, but they
    never went very far. A sprawling military post overlooks the town
    from a mountainside to the west, and now the IDF is back, its
    chokehold on Jericho enforced not by soldiers patrolling the
    streets but by concrete barriers and trenches on the outskirts of
    town.

    Inside the boarded-up town, residents have little to do but wait
    for things to change. Abu Hani, a bus driver, shuttles travelers
    between town and the border crossing, and when the roads are
    closed there's no work. One closure, he remembers, lasted 17
    days. "I have nothing to do when there's closure," he says. "No
    job, no money. I just sit." His wife, Umm Hani, has watched the
    family's grocery store lose 60 percent of its business since the
    closure began last autumn. Last month, the couple's oldest son,
    Youssef, left for New York to try and find work with a cousin.
    "He just called this morning," says his mother. "I wanted to tell
    him to come back because we miss him. But if he came back he
    would just sit. It's better that he's away."



    (Chris Smith is a freelance journalist recently returned from the
    West Bank.)




    >>>>>> Analysis: Colombia spook set-up


    BY ART Mac EOIN



    It is now clear that the recent high profile arrests of three
    Irishmen in Bogota is a result of the machinations of shadowy
    forces within secret intelligence agencies on both sides of the
    Atlantic with an interest in scuppering the direction of the
    peace processes in both Colombia and Ireland.

    The subsequent political and media reaction has served to further
    the sinister agenda of these spies and spooks with cynical and
    unjustified political attacks and allegations against Sinn Fein
    and a virtual trial by media of three Irish citizens.

    No evidence of any description against the men has been presented
    to link them to anything other than passport violations.

    Despite the outrageous and politically-inspired media hype, the
    mere presence of three Irishmen in Colombia's demilitarised zone
    is not legitimately a cause for any suspicion.

    Colombia is a country that has witnessed deep political conflict
    throughout its history. The roots of the most recent armed
    conflict go back to the mid-1960s.

    That conflict has witnessed a number of guerilla groups opposing
    the government in Bogota. The government, which receives support
    and assistance from the US administration, has been accused of
    organising right-wing death squads to carry out the murder of
    many civilians.

    As a result of political negotiations within a tentative peace
    process, a demilitarised zone about the size of Switzerland has
    been ceded to the control of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of
    Colombia (FARC), the largest guerilla group fighting the Bogota
    government.

    The area controlled by FARC has been regularly visited by
    countless international groups, observers, journalists and
    diplomats.

    Weekly conferences have been held in the Zone, attended by
    government ministers, trade union leaders, schoolteachers, and
    anyone interested in being involved in the future of Colombia.
    FARC leader Manuel Marulanda has said the organisation is open to
    talk to anyone.

    McCauley, Monaghan and Connolly were just three among many
    international visitors to the Zone, public transport to which is
    paid for by the Colombian government.

    Reactionary elements in the Colombian military and US
    intelligence services with whom they operate, are totally opposed
    to the manner in which President Pastrana has handled the peace
    process and in particular want to rescind the demilitarised
    status of the FARC-controlled area.

    Next October, the demilitarised status of the Zone is up for
    review, and it is a real probability that peace talks will be
    discontinued.

    There is a vested interest among CIA elements in sensationalising
    visits to the Zone by foreigners with political affiliations.
    This is particularly true if information on those visitors, such
    as imprisonment for revolutionary political or military activity,
    is available.

    In the case of two of the three Irish men, Jim Monaghan and
    Martin McCauley, such information was readily available from
    British Intelligence.

    British securocrats opposed to the Irish peace process are more
    than willing to assist in black propaganda operations which
    further their own interests. Hence the Bogota arrests and the
    unprecedented media hype of the past week.

    As soon as the men were arrested, British Intelligence sources
    contacted Peter Robinson of the DUP to facilitate a media and
    information spin on the arrests with the aim of inflicting the
    maximum possible damage on the Irish peace process.

    Robinson succeeded in creating a bandwagon effect over the past
    week in which unionists and all sorts of opponents of Sinn Fein
    queued up to attack the party, despite the fact that none of the
    arrested men are party members, and to link Irish republicans to
    every conceivable activity from drug-dealing to manufacturing
    nuclear bombs.

    Plots worthy of the cheapest pulp fiction were churned out in the
    Irish and British media with anti-Good Friday Agreement unionists
    and British securocrats manipulating the situation to portay the
    IRA and not themselves as posing a threat to the Irish peace
    process. This against the backdrop of a loyalist paramilitary
    campaign of bomb attacks against nationalist homes, GAA grounds
    and property.

    Nationalists across the Six Counties in recent months have been
    driven from their homes and have had their communities placed
    under loyalist siege, while the UDA, responsible for the murder
    of hundreds of nationalist civilians both directly and in
    collusion with British state forces, parades thousands of men
    openly and in paramilitary uniform on Belfast's Shankill Road.

    Gerry Adams has said that Sinn Fein had no case to answer
    following the Bogota arrests. The Sinn Fein President said the
    treatment of Monaghan, Connolly and McCauley was reminiscent of
    the trials by media of the Birmingham Six and Guildford Four.

    Adams said: "The first I learned of this business was when the
    three Irish people were arrested. I can say with certainty they
    were not there representing Sinn Fein. I would have had to
    authorise such a project and I did not do so. Neither was I or
    anyone else asked to.

    "Efforts to make Sinn Fein accountable for these three Irish men
    are totally unjustified and serve no good purpose. My own view is
    that they should be released, and the Irish government should be
    doing its best to secure their freedom as soon as possible.

    "So whatever the hype, the lies and the propaganda, and no doubt
    there will continue to be a lot of all this... arising from this
    Sinn Fein has no case to answer."

    The decision by the RUC to go to Colombia this week in relation
    to the investigation has added to the anger and suspicion over
    the case. Sinn Fein TD Caoimhghin O Caolain said the RUC's
    involvement in the matter only heightened fears that these men
    will not receive a fair hearing.

    "What possible reason do the RUC have for travelling thousands of
    miles to partake in the investigation involving three Irishmen",
    he asked. "Are they going to Colombia with fabricated evidence
    to back up a case that seems to be collapsing before our very
    eyes?

    "The RUC are a discredited police force. They are held in no
    confidence amongst nationalists on this island. Their
    involvement in this matter will only heighten fears that these
    men will not receive a fair hearing.

    "I am calling on the Department of Foreign Affairs to raise this
    matter immediately with the British government. The RUC do not
    act impartially in the Six Counties - they will not do so in
    Colombia either. These three men should be immediately
    released."




    >>>>>> Events in Ireland and Britain


    SF FUNCTION: Featuring Shan Nos. Friday 31 August, Katty Neds,
    DUNSHAUGHLIN, County Meath. Prominent speaker. Taille #5

    AIFREANN I GCUIMHNE NA STAILCEOIRI OCRAIS. 7pm De Aoine 31
    Lunasa, ag Suiomh na Croiseanna Geala, Baile na hAbhainn,
    CONAMARA, Co na Gaillimhe. Sinn Fein Conamara Theas

    PROTEST: In solidarity with the Turkish hunger strikers. Assemble
    3pm Saturday 1 September, Daunt Square, CORK. Organised by Ogra
    Shinn Fein

    VOLUNTEER COMMEMORATION: For Volunteer John Murphy. 7.45pm
    Saturday 1 September, Clohare, BANDON, County Cork. Social
    afterwards in O'Donovan's pub, Ballinadee. Organised by Bandon
    SF. Speaker: Bandon SF Councillor Ann O'Leary

    WEST TYRONE VOLUNTEERS AND IRSIH HUNGER STRIKERS' COMMEMORATIVE
    WEEK: Saturday 25 August: Irish night at Katy Daly's Nite Club
    with the Wolfe Tones, 9pm. Adm #12; Friday 31 August: Friday 31
    August: Turkish hunger strike video and display, 7.30pm.
    Sigerson's GAA Club Jim McAleer Memorial Quiz. Sigerson's GAA
    Club. Musaic by Terry Boyle and Scotland's Gerry MacGregor;
    Tuesday 28 August-Friday 31 August, National H-Block Exhibition
    in the Cairde Centre from 9am-9pm Tuesday-Thursday and 9am-7pm
    Friday; Saturday 1 September: Family fun Day and Gaelic Match,
    2pmSigerson's GAA Grounds. Entertainment afterwards in Clubroom
    with Terry Boyle. All other trad musicians welcome to perform;
    Sunday 2 September: Annual Volunteer March and Rally. Parade will
    proceed from Davy's Shop in Ballycolman Estate to West Tyrone
    Republican Plot in Strabane Cemetery. Bands in attendance and
    prominent speaker. Tea and refreshments will be served in
    Fountain Street Community Centre following proceedings. Failte
    Roimh Cach. Organsied by Cairde Strabane Republican Ex-Prisoners'
    Group

    SOUTH DOWN COMMEMORATION COMMITTEE: Official unveiling of
    monument to South Down's Patriot Dead. Sunday 2 September. Parade
    assembling Lower Square Castlewellan 6pm. Followed by function
    afterwards with Justice

    NATIONAL HUNGER STRIKE EXHIBITION: 2-9pm Tuesday 4 September, La
    Touche Hotel, GREYSTONES, County Wicklow; Also Royal Hotel,ARKLOW
    on Wednesday 5 September, 2-9pm. Organsied by the Wicklow '81
    Committee

    PUBLIC MEETING: Crisis in the Peace Process. 7.30pm Wednesday 5
    September, Liberty Hall, DUBLIN. Speakers: Gerry Kelly and North
    Belfast Residents

    SF FUNDRAISER: In aid of Dublin Southeast SF, featuirng Tuan
    (Cruncher and Bik). 8.30pm Friday 7 September, Seapoint house,
    Irishtown, DUBLIN. Taile #5. Further info from Daithi on
    086-8534666

    IRISH NIGHT: Featuring Shan Nos. Friday 7 September, Mountview
    Hotel, DERRYLIN, County Fermanagh. Taille #5

    TURKISH HUNGER STRIKES NATINAL MARCH AND RALLY: Assemble 2pm
    Saturday 8 September, Garden of Remembrance, Parnell Square,
    DUBLIN and march to the GPO for music, song and messages of
    support from various political parties. Benefit function that
    night, 8:30pm, Abbey Hotel, Abbey Street, Dublin

    SF FUNDRAISER: Featuring Bik McFarlane and Cruncher O'Neill as
    Tuan. 8.30pm Saturday 8 September, Decie's Country Bar, Decies
    Road, BALLYFERMOT, County Dublin. Taille #5

    SF FUNCTION: Saturday 15 September, Hidden Inn, KILMANAHAN,
    Clonmel, County Tipperary. Muic by Shennanigans. Taille #5

    PROTEST: disband the RUC/PSNI. Assemble 2pm Saturday 15
    September, GPO, O'Connell Street, DUBLIN. Further info contact
    Ray Lakes on 086-8634945 or Lorraine O'Donnell on 087-9548192

    TAR ISTEACH: Bog Trotters September Hill Walks. Sunday 16
    September, meetig place to be announced. Mini bus will have one
    collection point in Dublin city centre. Info from Padraig on
    086-3020782

    REPUBLICAN FUNCTION: Friday 21 September, Pearse Ogs Club,
    ARMAGH. Featuring Finin, following disco. Guest Speakers from
    Ogra Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein. Doors close strictly at 12am.
    Taille #4. Organised by Mid-Armagh Ogra SF

    REPUBLICAN COMMEMORATION: Annual Fianna Volunteers Cole/Colley
    commemoration. Assemble 2pm Saturday 22 September, Artane
    Roundabout, DUBLIN and march to memorial on Yellow Road. Speaker:
    Ella O'Dwyer.

    HUNGER STRIKE ANNIVERSARY MARCH: Assemble 12 noon Sunday 23
    September, Speakers' Corner, Hyde Park, LONDON, England and march
    for rally to Trafalgar Square. Speakers: Gerry Kelly (SF), Dennis
    Goldberg (sentenced with Nelson Mandela) and john McDonnell
    (Labour MP). Also reps from Turkish hunger strikers and music.
    Organised by the '80/'81 Hunger Strike Commemoration Committee,
    BM Box 6191, London WC1N 3XX. Tel/Fax 020-8442-8778

    SF ARD FHEIS FUNCTION: Featuring country-renowned balladeers Shan
    Nos. 9pm Saturday 29 September, Irish Film Centre, Temple Bar,
    DUBLIN. Taille: #6

    HUNGER STRIKE EXHIBITION: 12pm onwards, Monday 3 October,
    Newgrange Hotel, NAVAN, County Meath. Public meeting to follow at
    8pm. Featuring Michelle Gildernew and Jim McVeigh. Info from Alan
    on 086 3212495

    NATIONAL HUNGER STRIKE RALLY: Assemble 2pm Saturday 6 October,
    Garden of Remembrance, Parnell Square, DUBLIN and march to GPO

    ANARCHIST BOOK FAIR: 10am-7pm Saturday 20 October, Camden Centre,
    Euston Road, LONDON, England

    SOUTH ARMAGH WEEKEND: weekend of events organised by Coiste na
    nIarchimi and Ogra Shinn Fein. Includes educationals on
    republican history and protest at Brit Army hill-top base.
    Billets will be provided and a bus will leave SF Head Office at
    6.30pm on Friday 26 October

    Diesel

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Diesel,

    You do realise that nobody reads through that whole thing dont you? Its just annoying having to scroll past it each time.

    You continue to post these every week despite the fact that they are a massively biased source.

    You dont even bother to take the time to comment on the stories within. You just copy and paste..At least put some time into your post, give us a reason to read it.

    What exactly does students accomodation have to do with why theres conflict in NI..

    Just asking for a little reasoning here Diesel. Any one of us could go to any Loyalist mailing list and get articles sent to us which we could copy and paste onto here..They would be worth the same as the crap you keep posting....NOTHING
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Balddog, the arabs were the first to enslave Aficans, and they did it on a massive scale, there has also been research done to show that the Ancient Egyptions didn't use slaves to build the pyramids, don't believe all the lies in the old testanment about the Jews being slaves in Egypt. The old testanment is mostly a made up history.

    I am not in favour of imperialism by African nations such as Egypt. Afican society was never perfect but the greatest disaster for Africa was arab and european invasion and slavery. This was done because of the imperialist ambitions of european countries who wanted to exploit africa for its natural resources. This was far worse than what had ever happened before in africa. The current wars being fought in africa are a legacy of european imperialism. There will continue to be wars in africa until africans turn to socialism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Steelgate,

    Ok please provide me with evidence that shows the arabs introduced slavery to Africa. Prove to me that Africa was the only place on earth that didnt develop slavery on its own. Just a couple of pieces of unbiased research or publications.

    Old testament? Ive never read the bible so I cant comment.
    There will continue to be wars in africa until africans turn to socialism.

    and theres the bottom line...just pushing your agenda again..

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Steelgate, you do realise that the government is probably monitoring all of your communist propaganda and you have been black listed from virtually every decent job in the country......

    Britain will never turn to Communism for a simple reason, the majority of the population is happy with conditions here. Even working class people and people on the dole have relatively good amounts of money.
    I say relatively when you compare those wages to those of people living in Russia and China...Russia a place where the soldiers are fed on dog food and a Russian Commander gets paid less in a month than I do in a week. What does that tell you about the effects of communism?

    I think you should stop trying to "persuade" everyone about what a great system communism is, we're all intelligent and can decide for ourselves, we've seen the effects on other countries that have experimented with socialism, we arent stupid.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere, I have said loads of times on these boards that Russia, China and other countries were never communist! These countries were capitalist just like western countries, they had bosses, and the workers there were oppressed and expoilted to make the rulers rich, definitely not communist. As for most people in Britain supporting capitalism. Most people do so passively. They do not choose to live under capitalism.
    I am not pushing an agenda just giving my point of view which happens to be anti-capitalist.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Balddog, I understand your point...sometimes time is the only factor I'm dealing with...I'll try to edit out the stuff I really am not attempting to get across.

    This morning on the news we, US, were treated to the film from the catholic parents taking their small children, girls, to a catholic school with the route lined by protestants throwing rocks and insults at the terrified children. They were beautiful and innocent children wanting to go to school...and some want the IRA to stand down and give up their guns...when pigs fly!

    I am offended, even though I am anything but catholic and having gone to a catholic school for a while when I was small...really don't like them and the way they treat children...even so, this was a wrong thing to do...calling children scum and names unfit to print...well, this is what england appears to be about again because it was british troops protecting the protestants! Protecting them from the children and the evil parents holding their little hands.

    Shameful, about covers it all...you can do better than this I'm sure.

    Diesel

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