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Kids out after 9pm
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
What dob you think about kids (under 16s) not being able to go on the streets after 9pm at night.
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you can see the point of it. but, its probably just one of these ideas that will never work in practice. for a start, if the under-16 is with anyone over 18, they are allowed to be out. so, all you need is one 18 year old, and a bunch of 14 year olds can still go on a drunken rampage.
thinking about it, its a pretty shitty deal for anyne under 16. you cant go within a designated area after 9, but what if that designated area happens to include your house and the local shop, where you want to go to buy a packet of biscuits. bit harsh.
any government has to be seen to be doing something, so this kind of token permissive legislation is better than nothing, ish.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
It'll never work, but then it's only intended to show how the Govt is 'Tough on crime...etc'. When the local councils don't use it the Govt will say 'Well WE tried...'
A better solution would be to build places where these kids can go. But that would be proactive, and politicians only know about kneejerk reactions.
pointless rule, seen merely as more of a PR stunt by the police than anything else, because it's impossible to enforce properly
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BUT it has worrying implications- it IS a violation of civil rights, and it is legislation that does NOT deal with the underlying problems on estates of boredom and lack of future. This law would make things worse not better- if a kid is baneed from going to the shop or playing out on a hot summer evening, then they are more likely to misbehave cos thyre not allowed to.
I pray to God Labour dont get for a third time if this is what theyre gonna do. This, and the 'BrassEye' censorship laws they proposed, scare me a lot- Blair is gettin more and more dictatorial.
It matters not who won or lost, but how you place the blame.
“.....When it was over, the loudest among them described, for the cameras and the microphones, their great anger at what had happened to James Bulger. But there was more than just anger in the eyes of that screaming mob. There was fear. Fear of the two boys, of other children, of all children. Fear of what children might do.” (BBC News Kevin Bocquet ‘Bulger murder 10 years on’ 12/02/03)#
In 1993 when two year old Jamie Bulger was abducted and murdered by ten year olds Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, the media seemed to go into overdrive. Many newspapers had page after page of reports on the matter and every news programme was showing the camera images taken from security cameras at the shopping centre where Jamie Bulger could be seen being led away. Many papers called the two boys evil monsters, animals or even the ’Spawn of Satan’ as Muncie says “For many, the case demanded that all children be regarded as a threat and that childhood be defined as a time of innate evil.”
Certainly the belief that young people are deviant is not a new one, in 425 BC Socrates said “... children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority..... disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants...”#
Since the emergence of the Teddy boys in the 1950’s society has become increasingly concerned not just with youth as a variable period between infancy and adulthood but also with ‘youth culture’. The formation of ‘subcultures’ such as Mods, Rockers, Goths, Punks and Skaters have dominated much of the media coverage of young people. This has been echoed in movies such as ‘Quadrophenia’ depicting the clashes between the mods and rockers of the 1970’s and also in music which often plays a prime part in distinguishing different groups or ‘gangs’. Presdee comments on representations of youth in the media “....every week we agonise over the downward moral spiral of our young as they are seen by the media to plunge even further into the depths of violence....” #
The term ’subculture’ connotes a set of values that are different from the mainstream or dominant culture. Albert K Cohen formed the first concept of a delinquent subculture. (Croall 1998) Cohen was puzzled by the fact that most delinquent acts were not motivated by economic ends such as vandalism and joyriding, and suggested that it was status deprivation that motivated them, In ’Delinquent Boys’ (1955) Cohen argued that boys in the lower working class felt frustrated with there position in life and felt that they were being looked down upon by the rest of society, denying them any status. Petty theft and vandalism for example provide delinquents with a measure of revenge. They develop their own subculture with its own values passed on from one generation to the next, this provides them with alternative ways of gaining status, which may lead them into delinquency. Cohen therefore argues that delinquents are no different from other adolescents in seeking status; they are just “resolving the need to gain status through their delinquent acts.”# In support of this, a survey of Newcastle's young people found that 60% of boys from multiply deprived families eventually gained criminal records. This suggests that 'poverty can detract from parents' ability to exert effective influence over their children'.
For many young people however, belonging to a ‘gang’ is not about gathering in large numbers to cause trouble but meeting with other like minded young people who are having similar life experiences. It can give them a sense of belonging and a network of support in what would otherwise be a difficult, confusing and often lonely time.
In some places in the UK, measures were introduced to try to deal with the increasing fears adults have that young people are ‘up to no good’. The curfew scheme introduced to Strathclyde in March 2002, was one such measure. Officially named the Child Safety Initiative, this gave the police powers to take home anybody under the age of 16 who was found on the streets after 9pm without a good reason to be out. “One pensioner, George, felt safer because the group of kids who hung about his street had been moved away. They had never done anything to George, but he was always worried about 'what could happen'.”# The curfew may have made some adults feel safer, but why isn’t this fear of young people being challenged? Instead by imposing a curfew, the police are confirming that there is a reason to mistrust them. This situation may show that adults are not confident in their ability to regulate the behaviour of their own children, and that they now feel that it should be the job of the police. “when the police have gone and the teenagers return, George will be surer than ever that he should not talk to these kids himself, but should phone the police instead.”#
In Britain, no child under the age of 10 can be found guilty of a criminal offence. Juvenile offenders are aged between 10 and 17 years#. According to recent findings 55% of people asked believed that responsibility for crime is shared equally by adults and young people. However, in reality in 1999 for example, 76% of detected crime was committed by persons over the age of 18. Official statistics confirm that public perceptions tend to overstate the extent of crime which is attributable to young people. Also, contrary to general perceptions, youth offending appears to be falling. From 1992-9 offences committed by 10-17 year olds fell from 143,000 to 120,000 furthermore the numbers of young people cautioned for indictable offences show a gradual, though not uninterrupted, decline over the recent past.#
In conclusion, I believe that the view of young people as ‘trouble makers’ or in some way deviant is an enduring myth. The statistics do not support the notion that young people are responsible for the majority of crime or that the ‘youth of today’ indulge in more criminal activities than their parents or grandparents did. The media seems to aggravate fear of youth by representing youth culture as hedonistic, violent and deviant from ‘normal’ behaviour. Increasing police involvement in the control of young people with initiatives such a curfews and ‘see through shelters’ where children can socialise but only in clear view of adults and authorities also seems to confirm fears that young people are to be mistrusted. It is clear that the notion that it is a crime to be young in contemporary Britain is becoming increasingly evident and is a situation that should be addressed. Perhaps rather than finding new ways to protect us from one another, policy makers should consider how to end the social exclusion of young people and to provide adequate support and understanding rather than trying to ‘control’ young people.
Bibliography
Croall, H (1998) Crime and Society in Britain an introduction Longman: Essex
Moore, S. (1996) Investigating Crime and Deviance. Harper Collins: London
Muncie, J (2002) Youth & Crime Sage Publications: London
Presdee, M (2001) Cultural criminology and the carnival of crime Routledge: London
Smith, R (2003) Youth Justice - Ideas, policy, practice Willan Publishing: Devon
Article: 29th May 2001 Are scruffy youth so scary? by Stuart Waiton (available on website: http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000002D0F2.htm)
Website:http://www.HMPrisonservice.gov.uk/statistics/dynpage.asp?Page=18%20Jan%202003 accessed 08/12/04
Home Office (2000)Youth Crime: Findings from the 1998/1999 Youth Lifestyles Survey Home Office Research Study 209, London: Home Office.
Lecture 2, Derek Kirton: Young people’s changing relationship to the family, 07/10/04
But so old
What do you expect from a UKC student?
a lot of parents don't either give a fuck or have a clue or maybe both.
no ...children should not be out without an adult after a certain time.
someone has to be responsible and take the lead rather than blaming politicians.
proactive can start at home.
curfew orders dont work
i say community service