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Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Well it seems as though the moderators , didn't want to hear the facts , and nether did most of you .
Many thing that were posted have been taken away . Not because they were rude , or because of foul language , but because they/you didn't want to hear the what we had to say .
No , most of you were content to sit back , call names , and wait for the moderator to save you from the awful truth .
I had thought when I came here that it would be a good place to have an intelligent discussion with people of my own age . I guess I was wrong .
Most of you here (including the moderators it seems) don't want hear what we have to say . You would rather delete our topics (some of them needed it , but not all) , if we don't agree with what you think .
Any one that would like to have a reasonable discussion about the pros , and cons of gun control in the UK , or the US please speak up . I would be glad to hear what you have to say as long as it dose not contain the words yanks , or red necks .
Thank you for you time .
BTW-I am going to post some info. about gun control in countries that have enacted such laws . It is by an Australian author , and pro-gunner named Paul Harvey .
Please read it before you make up your mind that it is "stupid , red neck , yank , gun propaganda" .
Thank you , and good day:BillofRights
[This message has been edited by BillofRights (edited 19-07-2001).]
Many thing that were posted have been taken away . Not because they were rude , or because of foul language , but because they/you didn't want to hear the what we had to say .
No , most of you were content to sit back , call names , and wait for the moderator to save you from the awful truth .
I had thought when I came here that it would be a good place to have an intelligent discussion with people of my own age . I guess I was wrong .
Most of you here (including the moderators it seems) don't want hear what we have to say . You would rather delete our topics (some of them needed it , but not all) , if we don't agree with what you think .
Any one that would like to have a reasonable discussion about the pros , and cons of gun control in the UK , or the US please speak up . I would be glad to hear what you have to say as long as it dose not contain the words yanks , or red necks .
Thank you for you time .
BTW-I am going to post some info. about gun control in countries that have enacted such laws . It is by an Australian author , and pro-gunner named Paul Harvey .
Please read it before you make up your mind that it is "stupid , red neck , yank , gun propaganda" .
Thank you , and good day:BillofRights
[This message has been edited by BillofRights (edited 19-07-2001).]
0
Comments
> >
> > Are you considering backing gun control laws? Do you think that
because
> > you
> > may not own a gun, the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment
don't
> > matter?
> >
> > CONSIDER THIS...
> >
> > In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to
1953,
> > approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves,
were
> > rounded up and exterminated.
> >
> > In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5
million
> > Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
> >
> > Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13
million
> > Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were
unable
> > to
> > defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> >
> > China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20
million
> > political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
and
> > exterminated.
> >
> > Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,
100,000
> > Mayan
> > Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
> >
> > Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
> > Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> > exterminated.
> >
> > Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one
million
> > "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> > exterminated.
> >
> > That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun
control at
> > approximately 56 million in the last century.
> >
> > Since we should learn from the mistakes of history, the next time
someone
> > talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens
they
wish
> > to have exterminated.
> >
> > It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced
to
> > surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, a program
costing
> > the
> > government more than $500 million dollars.
> >
> > The results Australia-wide; Homicides are up 3.2%, Assaults are up
8%,
> > and
> > Armed robberies are up 44%. In that country's state of Victoria,
> > homicides
> > with firearms are up 300%.
> >
> > Over the previous 25 years, figures were showing a steady decrease
in
> > armed
> > robberies and Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss
to
> > explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such
a
> > monumental effort and expense was expended in "ridding society of
guns."
> >
> > It's time to state it plainly; Guns in the hands of honest citizens
save
> > lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the
law-abiding
> > citizens. Take action before it's too late, write or call your
> > delegation.
Firstly, those 56 million people 'victims of gun control' were in fact the victims of totalitarian repressive regimes - it is naive to think that giving the jews guns in ww2 would have stopped the holocaust. therefore, if you believe your government to be a regime that massacres its own citizens in the manner of Stalin or Suharto, then by all means carry guns! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
As for the rise in crime, i think it is folly to see a rise over the last few years as indicators for the long-term. it is far more likely that, as the police would no longer have to deal with the decommissioning process or the regulation of firearms, that in the next few years a reduction in crime is to be expected. this is because the police can stop bothering a gun-toting joe bloggs in the street, and instead try and track down the perpetrators of violent crime.
Seriously, this subject has been debated at very great length in another post, 'America and the gun', and once again by the post 'About the American gun culture'. Everyone is entitled to their opinions (so long as they do not cause offence), and on this one i feel we must agree to disagree!
A word on the side of the moderators; these people are not here to victimise anyone, rather the opposite - to ensure that debate such as this (which can become, erm, heated) is conducted in a mature fashion.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
AKDUDE
[This message has been edited by AKDUDE (edited 19-07-2001).]
I know there are many posts here with this same topic , but the ones like "America , and gun control" seem to be getting out of hand .
First I would like to address the fact that these many of these bans were enacted under the false pretenses that they would help stop crime . Only latter did they finds out that by giving up there guns , they had essentially given up their means to defend them self's .
"the most effective way to enslave the people is to take away there means to defend them self's" the name of the person that made this quote has slip my mind , but I will post it as soon as I can remember . I do know that it was an American president back in the 1800's .
As for the Jews , I in no way think that giving them guns would have stopped the holocaust . I do however think that if they had the means to defend them self's , they would have faired a better chance than without , and therefore reduced the number that were massacred by the nazi regime .
I would also like to address the matter of national defense in war time .
What if your country was invaded. (It dose not matter by who , this is hypothetical)
What would you do ? You have no means to defend your self's ,and even if in such a time the gun ban was raised , and you could get weapons , you know nothing of how to use them .
The Viet cong have showed us that a small , but well trained group of gorilla forces can repel even the largest of enemies .
IF they have the means , and the know how to do so .
Also , what if by some fluke YOUR government happens to turn into a "totalitarian repressive regime" ? I'm sure you don't think this will happen , and frankly nether do I , but that is just what the people of most these country thought before it happened .
This is a fear in the US as well , with all the bans that are being proposed .
As for the long term crime rate ......Only time will tell .
Thank you for the reasonable , and infighting debate . I look forward to chatting about things that may not be so controversial .
I enjoy this site , and have checked out some of the other boards as well (sex , drugs , money , and careers).
Regards:BillofRights
Is all of England this Socialist or what???
Freedom rocks !
Having a rifle wont save you from anything, and, if anything, will make things worse. Colombine, Dunblane....need any more egs? Owning a gun isnt freedom, its imprisonment...and when the Government comes calling, a toy aint gonna save ur skin.
And btw, grow up and just use ONE identity- if u wanna serious debate, then ur welcome, but stop playing silly buggers.
[This message has been edited by Kermit (edited 19-07-2001).]
Wrong, people defend themselves all the time with their firearms. But you won't here about it in the Liberal press. Gun Control isn't about protecting children. It's about controling the population. Wake up.Smell the Coffee.
If someone broke into your home to do you harm all you could do is beg for your life!!!
Freedom rocks !
Protection from free thinking Americans HAHA you are the biggest fool I have ever run into on any board. You are the definition of Sheeple. BAAAA BAAAA
Freedom rocks !
Freedom rocks !
Yes, and I really AM a frog. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif">
They break in, you dont hear them. When u know they are there, a gun is at your head. U cant reach ur gun. What u gonna do NOW, eh?
Ur kid gets shot by some moron whilst he/she is at school. How good are guns NOW, eh?
I'm a lite sleeper. Never happen.
Kids have a better chance of getting struck by lightning.
I own guns primarily because I like to shoot them, and I have the right.
But if the need arises Goodbye scumbag.
With a smile on my face. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
really I am not posting as anyone else. Honest. Believe it or not.
Freedom rocks !
No protection from Some stupid Americans who think guns make them 'Big and 'Ard' And its not, only becuase we decide to protect our country rather than shoot half of them. Go ahead, If you get shot, I wouldnt give a shit, because you would deserve it, because you think guns are great and they could be ur demise. Use ur gun, and shoot urself in the head with it, wanker
(Apologies to other 'decent' Americans, for having to live with these bastards)
BRITISH BULLDOG: <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/flags/uk.gif">
Fool maybe, but I don't think im built liek brickshit unlike you redneck arses
Maybe u are using only this username, are u big bunch of trolls or trying to brainwash us all into going to school on Monday and shooting our Maths teachers? Unless you are one little american cunt trying to big.
You aint gonna win, punk
BRITISH BULLDOG: <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/flags/uk.gif">
Next , why do you refer to Columbine, Dublin so much ? Is that the only thing you know about ?
You seem to be much more reliant , on opinion , than fact .
Here are the facts: "For your information:
Number of physicians in the US: 700,000. Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000. Accidental physician-caused deaths per physician: 0.171
(U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services)
Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
Number of accidental gun deaths per year all age groups) 1,500.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188
Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. Remember: guns don't kill people, doctors do."
There are some facts .
Some other facts .
I would have a much better chance with a gun than without.If when the time comes you would rather give up without a fight , so be it . I will not ! God help your country if it's full of people like you that would rather surrender and accept control by the powers that be , than stand up for them self's and their country , and fight !
BillofRights
Why not just go lay on the train tracks or something MORON.
Take your silly ass on back to the cave you crawled out of.
BITCH.
Freedom rocks !
At least we are the stupid Americans that can FREAKING SPELL ! Jesus H crimeny learn to spell , or use a spell checker , or something .
If you want to be thought of as intelligent , you really should learn to spell .
BillofRights
[This message has been edited by BillofRights (edited 20-07-2001).]
If kirmit , and some of his buddys want to make fools of them self's by calling names , and talking trash , let them , it only better proves our point .
BillofRights
[This message has been edited by BillofRights (edited 20-07-2001).]
Freedom rocks !
and:
its where
Kermit
buddies
themselves
.... and you dont actually need a space before a comma.
in a most ironic post you've just disproved your intelligence by your own reckoning.
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
~ Nietzsche
BTW-
isnt is isn't
dont is don't
Colombine is Columbine
and aint , ain't a word !
So far Girl-from-mars , you have not provided any helpful information for your cause , nor have you usefully contributed in any way to this or any other conversation of this nature .
Maybe you would like to grow up , and join in an intelligent debate , based on facts rather that your emotions ? That goes for the rest of you one line wonders too ! I'm sure a quick insult is more your style , but it's not mine . If you wish to participate in this topic , please come up with something better than "Look at Columbine , and Dunblane!", or "stupid Americans".
Regards:BillofRights
The bill of rights.
Unless you read it you never know what your missing .
But there are many instances that you would be able to prevent an attack or robbery with a firearm or another weapon (but Id take the firearm first).
I would like to ask you english a question.In your country if some is attacking you with a stick or some object (even a firearm) do you have the right or permission from your overlords (or what have you) to fight back?What about an unarmed person?What about useing weapons to fight back against someone who is armed?
If someone is breaking into your house can you try to stop them on your own?meaning attacking them or holding them at bay with a weapon untill police arrive?
Ok one more.If you see someone trying to rob someone or a store or something can you step in and try to stop it with violence or threat of?
No space before the queestion mark.
No space before the exclamation (!) mark.
No spaces before commas or full stops (periods) either.
How can you take someone seriously when they can't type?
What exactly is your argument anyway? You've demonstrated you can't actually lay it out in a summarised form and prefer instead to whinge about being labelled a redneck. Is it that you're saying a gun should be legal to defend oneself? If it is, then think about the following:
- No guns allowed in China and Japan, yet they have some of the most skilled martial artists in the world and would be more dangerous than any gun you could point at someone.
- Guns aren't just used for defending. They're a weapon, they're used to kill and attack. If someone is going to attack you, in whatever form, a gun will not help you to defend yourself. Walking along the street - if someone shoots you, you won't be defending yourself. If someone jumps you, you won't have time to reach for your gun to deter them and so any action you take with that gun will be one of retribution - revenge, getting one back.
Guns are nothing more than deterrents, the US way of thinking is that the bigger the gun, the more afraid people will be to attack you. Bullshit. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
If someone's going to rob you and you pull a gun on them, they pull one on you. Then it's not who has the bigger balls, it's who's trigger happy.
They lead to a state of panic - people end up dead because they can't make rational judgement.
The Americans have proved over their time their anxiety to pull the trigger on anything that they deem as threatening, their constant competing for top dog, best this, bigger that. All well and good - but look where it's got you. More killings and shootings than any other country, gang warfare, civil uprest in areas of town after certain hours, the fear that someday you will be jumped and mugged. So how do you counteract this fear...with letting not only the criminals have guns, but allowing the normal civilian to get involved. Freedom fighters, vigilantes, start evolving and before you know it, mini scale wars start occurring and the equipment they use is more advanced than that of the police - who have let things spiral out of their control.
No thankyou <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"> Keep your guns, we can walk in safety in many of our streets, even London believe it or not. If it was about defence, you would join martial arts classes and become more deadly than any automatic weapon would make you.
Playing with fire will ultimately see you burnt <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/ukliam2.gif">
Guns are used to defend people everyday.
Martial arts are not more deadly. A gun can kill just as dead. Your point escapes me. If you intend on killing does it matter how ??
You have not made any useful points to this discussion. Gangs/criminals all over the world have guns , always will. Why take guns away from citizens and leave them defenseless.
Martial arts ain't shit compared to a gun.
if someone is pointing a gun at you to rob you are you going to try a round house or some other move. you'll get shot dude. Put away your M.A. movies and wake up .
Freedom rocks !
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tdo13.gif">
I can see this thread is getting a bit heated too, so I won't bother with spell-checking ya posts or name-calling or any of that crap, an Englishman (for which I nearly qualify) remains civil at all times.
I was interested in the accidental deaths per doctor/gun owner stats. I'm sure they'd be approximately accurate. What I'd be more interested in is the number of DELIBERATE deaths per doctor/gun owner, I think it'd compare less favourably.
I'm actually slightly less anti-gun than the average round here due to the fact that my old man was a member of the Thames Valley Gun Club up until the time he couldn't store guns in the house anymore. When I was a kid we used to have a proliferation of rifles and handguns around the house (crossed shotguns hanging on the lounge wall!!) as he used to trade in them as well. I used to take a shotgun and our dog hunting for rabbits as we lived in the country, and join him for days on the Army shooting ranges too. I know how it feels to shoot and the immense feeling of personal power it gives you. Of course my old man didn't want to give his guns up for many of the reasons you've all listed, but he complied with the law when it changed and also got handsome payments from the Government for doing so. Would you hand your weapons in if the law changed in the States??
With regards to personal protection in the home, this is something we've never had to worry about as my family has kept at least one Rottweiler for just about as far back as I can remember. I know that the likelihood of a thief carrying a gun here is vanishingly small, so, ever faced a territorial and pissed-off Rottweiler at night while trespassing on someone else's property?? Only once did someone try it in our house, by the time I'd woken up and found out what was going on the guy had quite literally pissed himself, but was lucky to get away with only a few tooth-marks across his arm. I think they make better protection then guns (bigger deterrant, more noise) and better company as well, though they do take more looking after of course. And you can have one openly on the street without getting stopped by the police <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
As for the threat of being invaded, I'd have to say it was pretty damn slim over here, especially by some foreign power. I think civil war would be more likely but with the complete lack of weapons available that also seems improbable. Under either circumstances I'm not sure I'd like to go up against fully trained Army personnel clutching a six-shot revolver or even a full-auto assault rifle. Sure I could possibly take a few with me, but standard Army tactics for dealing with armed resistance is to pound it from afar with mortars/artillery, net result is me dead and destruction of my property. I think I'd rather be treated as a civilian and be herded along with the rest, that takes up far more of their resources than getting shot in the head.
Only users lose drugs