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Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet Palestinians have to let that one go. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong...it won't happen because to do that would be the end of a "Jewish" state. It'll be more like South Africa was. Or they could follow Hamas and they'll never know more than what they have now. They could have a prosperous state if they do let that go. Both sides are so focused on their pasts that they trade away their future...sometimes literally with the deaths of people our age.
Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet Sim, do you have a realistic solution that could end the fighting. By realistic, one you think both sides could agree to someday.
Originally posted by Aladdin The Palestinians have also made concessions and taken initial steps of their own Greenhat.
Originally posted by Simbelyne Re-Unification;
To start with all citizens would be given the same rights. Jew and Muslim.
Then there would be a rebuilding of the cities bulldozed by the IDF and the knocking down of most settlements.
There should be a conciliation commission (a la South Africa)
Incitement of religious hatred (by Orthodox Jews and Radical muslims) should be outlawed.
The police force will be joint (equally) between the two sides.
The IDF will be disbanded and a new army for the whole of the region founded.
All terrorist groups to be outlawed (including the vocal advocates of settlements.)
The return of all palestinian refugees.
Free and fair elections. OMOV.
Originally posted by Greenhat BS. Everytime, EVERY TIME!, the initial steps that the Palestinians have been required and expected to do has included stopping the terrorist attacks. And they haven't done it once. Not once.
Orginally posted by Jacqueline the RipperAnd so many people who actually survived the Holocaust, don't survive suicide bombings.
People go through hell, only to get their life cut off by a lunatic with issues.
Originally posted by Greenhat How do you force this solution on the region (because force is the only way you can put this solution into place)?
Originally posted by Kermit Actually I think you will find HAMAS held a ceasefire whilst Israel pulled out of the West Bank, and ten years later they havent even moved half a mile, in practice at least. The settlements built on bulldozed Palestinian land are still there, and so are the F16s and Apaches.
Originally posted by Kermit Quite simply, in one of two ways:
(1) Give HAMAS F16s and apaches too, and level the playing field. See how long before mutually assured destruction makes them behave.
(2)Take away the F16s and Apaches from Israel, and impose economic sanctions until Israel complies with the UN.
Originally posted by Simbelyne Concerted pressure by the EU + US. A big gamble by the Israeli's and wed be there.
Originally posted by Aladdin A democratically elected government's wrongdoings are every bit as bad as those perpetrated by non-democratic governments.
Originally posted by Man Of Kent Indeed they are. As Germany proved after the election of the National Socialists.
However, how many democratically elected Govts surround them? Should democracy be defended against aggression?
Originally posted by Kermit Yes, it should. And the Palestinians should be allowed to vote on whether or not Israel should just fuck off out of the West Bank and Gaza back to their 1948 boundaries.
If its a democracy its a democracy...
Originally posted by Aladdin The West Bank and Gaza don't form part of Israel any more than Kuwait formed part of Iraq from August 1990 to February 1991.
Originally posted by Aladdin I'll let it pass on the perceived effectiveness of the concerted pressure on Iraq- we can discuss it elsewhere if you want. But if you want the pressure on Israel to work, you only need to do one thing: cut off the massive economic and military aid the US provides. They'll be sitting on the negotiating table faster than a speeding artillery shell homing in on a refugee camp.
Originally posted by Aladdin And if the US was to stop the money train to Israel we'd see results fairly quickly.
Originally posted by Aladdin Not so much finances as the self-appointed position of Saviour of the Middle East the US has given itself. Amongst other outstanding issues Bush has requested several times now that the Israelis stop the spread of illegal settlements; each time those "great friends of America" Ariel Sharon and his government have raised two fingers to the US government. So what can Bush do? Well, the solution seems simple enough...
By the way are you suggesting I can't discuss the Middle East process and what steps America could take because I'm not a US citizen? Or is it only when I say something you don't like?