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the big drugs debate
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Well i know strictly this should be in drugs, but its a political hot potato so i thought it neccessary to have the big debate with you intellectual types <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
So Lib dems have been the first to rock the boat, what is the right way forward ?
Legalising the whole lot has some intresting benefits, it would create millions maybe billions for the public purse, allow safe drugs to be manufactured, allow comprehensive studies into health etc..... , mean help and treatment would be far more approachable, make monitoring the situation far easier, remove the criminal element of smuggling and dealers, free up police time for other issues, reduce short term damage to users and allow users to do as they please with their own bodies.
Or perhaps a new classification ? abolishing prison sentences for recreational drugs, after all is it really fair to ruin peoples lives over the odd pill here and there ? Is it really just to consider heroin and ecstasy as equal threats ?
Or maybe some of you believe a harder line on drugs would work ? Places like Thailand use the execution for drug offences and their problems are considerably smaller than ours.
Are we holding back to please America ? After all it was them that basically forced drugs to become illegal, would Tony the Tory upset Daft Lad Bush ?
Should we just leave things as they are ?
So Lib dems have been the first to rock the boat, what is the right way forward ?
Legalising the whole lot has some intresting benefits, it would create millions maybe billions for the public purse, allow safe drugs to be manufactured, allow comprehensive studies into health etc..... , mean help and treatment would be far more approachable, make monitoring the situation far easier, remove the criminal element of smuggling and dealers, free up police time for other issues, reduce short term damage to users and allow users to do as they please with their own bodies.
Or perhaps a new classification ? abolishing prison sentences for recreational drugs, after all is it really fair to ruin peoples lives over the odd pill here and there ? Is it really just to consider heroin and ecstasy as equal threats ?
Or maybe some of you believe a harder line on drugs would work ? Places like Thailand use the execution for drug offences and their problems are considerably smaller than ours.
Are we holding back to please America ? After all it was them that basically forced drugs to become illegal, would Tony the Tory upset Daft Lad Bush ?
Should we just leave things as they are ?
0
Comments
OI have distinct and definate views on the whle ting which have a habit of changing every now and then, but basically....
Prison sentances for personal possesion should be abolished.
Cannabis legalised.
Ecstasy downgraded.
I will have to return tomorrow to reply in full, as my time here is up. <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
What do you mean by massive penalties ? assuming you have legalised everything, and what drug related crime ? in a legalised scenario ?
Other drugs can stay illegal but i want to see jail sentences for possession abolished!! its just wasting prison space for people who are not any danger to society!!
I mean VERY long jail terms for those who commit crime to fund their addictions. Or for those who commit crimes while under the influence of drugs. Drug drivers for example.
Yes personal procession of any kind should be legalised. And I agree with someone said cannibis both using and selling should be legal, as it is less harmful than nicotin! Lets join the march protest this Saturday!!
At the moment, yes..but we are talking about if drugs were legalised.
There is no way you'd get the crime problems associated with alcohol from drugs, all the violence wouldn't happen <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
You get the violence when the users cant get the money for their next batch and end up mugging an old lady for the 10p in her purse.
Tax <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Even so, the chain of drug dealers is that long the profit on the final product is massive, even with tax they should be cheaper, unless the government shoot themselves in the foot
I disagree with that argument, if you follow that line then you have to agree to a whole load of things that aren't considered right in our society....
name some
Selling of body parts
Commiting suicide
self-mutilation
Because its not the place of government to dictate to people what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.
If someone wants to inject poison into themselves then thats their prerogative and its nobody elses business.
I dont have a problem with any of those.
Prostitution should be legalised
Selling of body parts is down to the individual
Suicide, again down to the individual and of course, completely legal atm.
Self mutilation, down to the individual but is mainly associated with illness so treatment is needed.
All of those things should be up to the individual. The only troubles arise when crime gets involved. Pimps, forced body part selling etc etc.
Another to add to that list would be the ownership of guns, I thought you were against that Baldy.....
But why do you believe the government has any right to stop an individual doing any of these ? I see no problem with any of them, certainly i can't see why they are illegal (those that are)
guns are likely to potentially harm others, drugs are not, the only possibility of harm is the individual in question <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
boxing is comparable to drug consumption, yet that is legal <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
The link between hard drugs and crime would drop massively if drugs were legalised, as we have already explained <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
People DO make decisions which will be considered wrong by SOCIETY, the government works for the good of society and must protect it's members from themselves....
Which is where the massive penalties come in <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I dont agree...Government should not have the right to protect me from myself. We are talking theoreticals here, I accept that at present it works as you say.
I think it is a fundamental difference in opinion of the nature of the state, you can't really argue either way, it's intuitive.......
Surely that can apply to everything in todays world then..Why dont we simply go and live with the Amish?
Everything in this life is a risk, surely the government should protect us poor simple folk from all the big bad nasties in the world. Even better if they just put us all in padded rooms, wed never get hurt then.
But heroin? I dunno... the effects are so destructive. What about their families?
Is there any research on whether more or less people would die as a result of drug abuse if they were all legalised? be interesting to know.
If drugs were legalised you would a) be able to make safe drugs free of impurities, the main problem where heroin is concerned, heroin as a simple pure drug is less toxic and harmful than nicotine
b) Be able to have extensive edcuation, promoting safe and sensible drug use
It is now pretty much common knowledge if alcohol were discovered today it would be classified alongside cocaine and heroin, because of its level of harm socially, mentally and physically. Yet the majority are able to use alcohol in a controlled sensible manner, i suspect the same could be true of cocaine and crack, yes they are addcictive to an extent, but then so are fags and alcohol, people don't turn up for work pissed as a rule, nor do people wander around mugging old ladies for their next bottle of vodka.
Heroin is a tricky one, but even if it were legalised who would do it ? I wouldn't, its silly to say legalisation would mean everyone would experiment, everyone knows the risks regardless of its status within the law, i don't consider legality to be a factor when someone is considering trying a drug, it doesn't work like that <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Toadborg, i think you estimation of haow harmful drugs are is way way to high,
And that is why a new approach is neccessary, providing affordable heroin coupled with help and support may go some way to eliminating the problem, in addition police would be free from spending hours filling in forms for cannabis possesion to get back onto the streets, this works as the Lambeth experiment showed.
bullshit, if that were the case alcohol or peanuts (responsible for far more deaths than e)would be illegal, thats a nonsense argument, the government works to please society otherwise it gets voted out <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Because its better to have temptation out where they can see it than tucked away in some underworld system, with the effects you see in modern society as a result <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Scare tactics do more damage than good. For instance, a few years ago there were a couple of deaths due to ecstasy where people had dehydrated and overheated while dancing. The press reported this and advised users to drink plenty of water to avoid dehydration. This unfortunately led to the detah of Leah Betts, who followed these warning and drank enough water to swell her brain and eventually kill her. Is this the way things should carry on?
It is obvious the current system does not work. Like it or lump it drugs are here to stay, so the system at the moment needs to change.
A couple of weeks ago Eb brought up the quality idea of having to aquire a license to do drugs including alcohol and tobacco.