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2032 - we will be fucked!

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4419466,00.html

The world will be utterly fucked up if we don't quickly change the way that everyine of us lives our lives. We must act now and end our short-term way of looking at things!

We must see the bigger picture, are you worried?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, good old alarmist statistics.

    Note they quote everything in terms of total changes since the early seventies, and try to completely ignore the slowdown of destruction and active conservation efforts of the past 20 years.

    The facts look very different if you follow the trends in rising environmental concern.

    However, the real problems are deep and mostly concern poverty. It is easy for the developed Western countries to say "Hey, we ruined 95% of the environment within our own reach and got rich doing it, but now that we've raped 70% of the world, we have to stop you poorer countries from developing industry, transport systems or doing anything else that stops us dictating to you from our position of absolute power".

    Anyone ever hear of the "Cargo Cults"? Fascinating stuff, and there's a not-too tenuous link.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Obviously there is a certain amount of hypocrisy of us in the west lecturing the poor countries but most of the effects of the environmental damage will be felt by the poorest people.....

    I think its good that people are alarmed, we need to wake up and realise what trouble we are in. The environmental concern of the average person is miniscule and even less people are willing to do anything about it.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe in environmentalism. I just hate someone trying to deceive me with misleading statistics that they've carefully chosen to reflect what they want to say, rather than what is true to say.

    Personally, I believe the true figures are compelling enough, and are only weakened by such obvious trickery.

    The answer (I think) is to make more nature reserves and finance poorer nations with grants as 'locations of environmental value and natural beuty' and to also invest in developing the tourist industry in such countries.

    At the same time, apply taxes on Western companies who exploit poorer nations for cheap labour unless they both pay far above the normal rates for the country, and also refuse to take advantage of the lack of child labour laws.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you have a particular problem with the sats in the above link?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I read about an interesting guy by the name of Lomberg (I think it's Bjorn Lomberg), he has some pretty radical ideas about how we can have maximum effect.

    One of his comments was that if we do nothing, based on current trends, we will almost achieve the Kyoto targets and without spending a penny. He pointed out that for a fraction of the cost of Kyoto you could actually ensure that everyone on the planet had a clean water supply...

    I'm not going to cover all his ideas, nor do I subscribe to them all...but he's worth a read.

    [edited for typos]

    [ 26-05-2002: Message edited by: Man Of Kent ]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not particularly bothered about the people affected but its sad that so much of the natural world is going to be destroyed.


    Things wont change.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    <STRONG>Things wont change.</STRONG>

    That about sums it all up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J:
    <STRONG>

    *Scratches head* <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>


    I dont have much empathy for humans im afraid. Few more of us die off, doesnt really bother me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    <STRONG>


    I dont have much empathy for humans im afraid. Few more of us die off, doesnt really bother me.</STRONG>

    Nothing wrong with this planet that one billion fewer people wouldn't help.

    Got to agree with you there. Fewer rats in the box would make them less neurotic and aggressive... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos...AGAIN:
    <STRONG>

    Nothing wrong with this planet that one billion fewer people wouldn't help.

    Got to agree with you there. Fewer rats in the box would make them less neurotic and aggressive... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    Bloody awful, but practical, I suppose.
    We (rich western countries) are distanced from the 'dirty' side of things, though.

    Saying that, has anyone heard about one of the Canary Islands falling into the sea, and washing out the east coast of the USA?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by mr turbo head:
    <STRONG>

    Saying that, has anyone heard about one of the Canary Islands falling into the sea, and washing out the east coast of the USA?</STRONG>

    Personally, I was hoping that one of the rock concerts in Kommie-fornia had set the San Andreas fault into motion. See... I own this property in Nevada, and I've always wanted to live on the beach... <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    <img src="http://home.attbi.com/~amishbill/HIPS/YouAreHere.bmp&quot; alt="image">

    Right on point...!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Got to agree with you there. Fewer rats in the box would make them less neurotic and aggressive...
    Hey Thanatos your old and useless, why don't you fuck off and kill yourself and save something for the rest of us.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by mr turbo head:
    <STRONG>Saying that, has anyone heard about one of the Canary Islands falling into the sea, and washing out the east coast of the USA?</STRONG>

    There always an upside, isn't there? <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that there is easily more than enough resources to go around, however the earth cannot sustain a system whereby the richest 5% of the population plunder the resources that rightfully belong to other people.
    Anything that does happen in 2032 won't affect the USA or Western Europe, or any of the other MEDC's. We have sufficient technology, skills and armed forces to ensure any remaining resources are in our control. The water shortages, famines e.t.c will only affect the 3rd world nations because they lack the capital to invest in modern farming, water processing and other vital parts of a Western nation's infratructure.
    And there isn't a damn thing they can do about it, if they try and defend their rightful claims, we destroy them. Looks like in a 100 years time the only nations with people left who aren't starving or dying of thirst will be the ones in the West.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think climate changes will have fairly severe impacts. Huge investment will be required in flood defences and agriculture will be seriously affected, there is also the question of vast urban sprawl, already there is pressure to build all over our greenbelts.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    2032 - we will be fucked!

    yeah, with any luck
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with MoK, Bjørn Lomborgs ideas should maybe get taken more seriously.

    Not sure if they work, but he has experience on the field, and it doesn't sound as complete nonsense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do agree with some points made in the article. There needs to be some sort of UN environmental agency to ensure governments all work together on these issues. The environment is a global issue so can only be dealt with properly if the whole world takes part in dealing with it. Apparently John Prescott was critisized for wanting to go to Bali, "which has been painted as a junket for ministers and civil servants". This is definitely the wrong attitude to take. Prescott himself said on the Jimmy Young program on radio 2 that it was silly to critisize him for staying in a hotel, because where else would he stay? Bali and Johannesburg are important, serious meetings on important, serious topics.

    On sustainable development itself at least some governments an companies are taking action. Did you know that it would take 10 of today's ford Fiestas to create the same amount of pollution as one Fiesta from 1976? The end of use of Ozone-depleting chemicals and the global effort to reduce air pollution is just one good thing to come out of an increased awareness of the environment. We need to increase recycling, use more renewable sources of energy and stop destroying forests. In European commercial forests, for every tree chopped down one is planted. A similar tactic must be used in the rainforests of the world. We should be planting more trees than we are chopping down. Of course, a sapling is no substitute for a fully grown tree when it comes to habitat, so we need to reduce the amount of tropical hardwood we use.

    Looking at urban sprawl, we need to rejuvenate our inner cities and make them better places to live. There are plenty of derelict houses in Liverpool and I assume the same is true for cities everywhere. We should fill up the current housing stock before we start building more. Of course this will mean considerable investment in inner-city and "brownfield" areas but surely it is cheaper to restore an old building than to build one from scratch?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All excellent points Slog.....

    it is good to see that the O-zone is now reparing itself but I think that transport and energy are the main issues now and both will require radical and global strategies to deal with the problems....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos...AGAIN:
    <STRONG>

    Personally, I was hoping that one of the rock concerts in Kommie-fornia had set the San Andreas fault into motion. See... I own this property in Nevada, and I've always wanted to live on the beach... <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    Motorhead go on tour soon... <IMG SRC="cool.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent<STRONG>
    There always an upside, isn't there? <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
    </STRONG>

    LOL <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> but still a bit worrying <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J:
    <STRONG>

    Not really, they wouldn't give a shit if it happened to another country unless they lost a resource they needed, or it somehow affected them. I didn't see the running to help in WWII. Oh yes, they came, but only once they'd been bombed at Pearl Harbour.
    Uncaring, Selfish, Avaricious!</STRONG>


    *yawns*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>Hey Thanatos your old and useless, why don't you fuck off and kill yourself and save something for the rest of us.....</STRONG>

    Take your best shot, but you had better be more accurate with your firearm than you are with your mouth, lest you be DIRECTLY rectumfied...
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