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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not really sure what point you are trying to make, but...I really wish that someone somewhere would find thesw Weapons of Mass destruction that were the 'reason' for the war!

    Then again - so many things can be faked these days - Right?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny
    Then again - so many things can be faked these days - Right?

    In other words, even if WMD are found, some people will claim them to be fake...?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nope - conversley ....'if some people want to find weapons of mass destruction then they will plant them'

    :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People who don't see the need for the war are in their own little world.

    And their abilties in critical media analysis is only for the conservative press.

    The reason for the war was deliniated in the London Times this weekend: Officials of the Iraqi regime met Bin Laden's gang back in 1998. Iraqi Scientists we've captures have said they were making large volumes of Antrax and more.

    For good and bad reasons there are people who never see the reason for the war. Luckily for the UK and USA, we had Blair in office who acted to end Saddam's reign before he could create a dirty bomb and pass it on to Al Qaeda.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good god pnj, the US government and the ultra-right wing Murdoch empire must love people like you to bits. The perfect citizen: swallow every last piece of "news" that it is thrown at you without questioning it and get behind your government however dubious its ways are.

    Whereas I won't state outright that the documents are false, I think everyone should act with caution until further is known. Any graphic designer geek could produce a very legitimate-looking document- let alone a government agency. Don't you think it is a litle weird- to put it midly- that in the middle of the chaos and looters' paradise that is Baghdad reporters from a newspaper keep 'wondering in' at official Iraqi govenment buildings and "finding" such documents? Amongst the dozens of buildings, thousands of file cabinets and undoubtely millions of files, these people just walk in, obviously by-passing US troops thanks to their invisibility cloak, open a draw at random and bingo! The Labour MP who spoke most openly against the war and Tony Blair is suddenly in Saddam's payroll, and more importantly one of the twin pillars for the Axis of Idiots' excuse for war, the alleged link between Saddam and Al Qaeda, are all proven thanks to these miraculous finds. How long before we find a dossier detailing all those WMDs Saddam was suppossed to own (but that to date have provided a tad elusive?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But Aladin, the Brits found the documents and it was reported in the London Times and UK Telegraph...not here. The media picked it up here. I'm upset by this...my dad just bought all of this French wine...he's such a liberal.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Times and Telegraph might be acting on good faith from the documents they've found. The question remains of whether those documents are genuine and how exactly did the journalists came across them. Were they directed to them by a tip-off after someone had planted them? It could be nonsense, but then again it is entirely plausable. And after the US and British governments were caught presenting false and doctored documentation to the UN as proof of WMDs ownership, there is every reason in the world with not to take any of these documents as proof of anything for the time being.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's so easy to know who's your friend in school...world politics to me seem like 90% waste of time....except for the UK. I trust the UK.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    It's so easy to know who's your friend in school...world politics to me seem like 90% waste of time....except for the UK. I trust the UK.

    LOL! Why the UK? Or just Blair?

    Oh, and your views on world politics seem to represent the more hardline unilateralsts in the Bush administration perfectly. Are you sure Fox news isn't fed to you intravenously? (P.S who would trust a channel tat plays the national anthem over the vast majority of footage from the war?)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Arent the daily telegraph and Sunday telegraph owned by News international the same company which owns Fox News and Sky news?

    Why trust us we only hanging onto your coattails in the hope of getting some scraps. If it was in our best interests then we would quite happily screw the US because that is how politics works and to honest if it is in your own interests the US would do the exact same thing

    Dont trust our press either bacause they are the biggest bunch of shit stirrers and lyers this side of the alantic. Especially the Sun i wouldnt wipe my arse with the rag it is a reactionary right wing intollerant paper which is owned by the Devil literally as it is a Murdoch paper
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm curious.
    What is the explanation for the huge store of radioactive material found?

    Leaking containment, extremely radioactive, stored in a basement over which UN inspectors passed three times.

    Aladdin? Clandestine?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    What is the explanation for the huge store of radioactive material found?

    I'm sure byny will tell you that it is a CIA plant...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Link please?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by marv
    Arent the daily telegraph and Sunday telegraph owned by News international the same company which owns Fox News and Sky news?


    No, News International owns The Times and The Sun. The Telegraph is owned by Conrad Black's Hollinger Group.
    http://media.guardian.co.uk/top100/story/0,10430,512973,00.html
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Link please?

    Timing is everything...

    Friday's Washington Post
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Defense officials acknowledge that the U.S. government has no idea whether any of Tuwaitha's potentially deadly contents have been stolen, because it has not dispatched investigators to appraise the site. What it does know, according to officials at the Pentagon and U.S. Central Command, is that the sprawling campus, 11 miles south of Baghdad, lay unguarded for days and that looters made their way inside."

    Oh what a delightful irony it would be if radioactive material had fallen into the wrong hands as a direct result of the Allies' war of liberation and against terrorism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    War is a horrible thing but I'm so glad we went. The West is a safer place because of it and many less Iraqis will die...because of Saddam's addiction to torture.

    The UN was criminal in both its methods for verification and disregard for Saddam's vicitimization. The oil for food program was twisted into this profit thing for France and Russia and Germany and Belguim.

    I'm curious to see what the US will value in meeting with our "allies". I understand the global trade thing so I know we can't just break relations with France and company. But when it comes to strategic military alliances...I don't see the merit in being in NATO, having any military in Turkey, being part of the Security Council.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    War is a horrible thing but I'm so glad we went. The West is a safer place because of it
    Not only was Saddam of no threat whatsoever to the West, but now it would seem that thanks to the Allies' war of "liberation" radioactive materials might have been stolen by looters and fallen into the wrong hands. Safer West my arse.

    and many less Iraqis will die...because of Saddam's addiction to torture.
    That's one of the few benefits... although it will be of little comfort for the families of 2,000 civilians and up to 100,000 soldiers killed in the illegal war.

    The UN was criminal in both its methods for verification and disregard for Saddam's victimization.
    The US was criminal in its collaboration with Saddam, including the supply of Weapons of Mass Destruction, and in its illegal war, illegal detention of PoW and disregard for international law.

    The oil for food program was twisted into this profit thing for France and Russia and Germany and Belguim.
    No it wasn't. It's just too bad the US wasn't profiting from it isn't?
    I'm curious to see what the US will value in meeting with our "allies". I understand the global trade thing so I know we can't just break relations with France and company. But when it comes to strategic military alliances...I don't see the merit in being in NATO, having any military in Turkey, being part of the Security Council.
    I completely agree with you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Oh what a delightful irony it would be if radioactive material had fallen into the wrong hands as a direct result of the Allies' war of liberation and against terrorism.

    Given the condition under which it was stored, if anyone looted anything from it, they are currently dying or more likely dead from radiation sickness.

    Of course, you still have failed to address what the purpose of that material was, nor have you bothered to consider what might have happened had Saddam arranged for some of that material to go to terrorists, as he arranged for arms and funds to go to terrorists.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    had Saddam arranged for some of that material to go to terrorists, as he arranged for arms and funds to go to terrorists.

    I think that's what Blair and Bush believe happened or believe there was a high probability he would do.

    The US was criminal in its collaboration with Saddam, including the supply of Weapons of Mass Destruction, and in its illegal war, illegal detention of PoW and disregard for international law..

    Only Muslim extremists who follow that Wahabbism and believe all Muslims everywhere are brothers would believe that. And I want all of those people dead anyway...so who cares what they think. France is the one that is isolated and seen as untrustworthy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    Of course, you still have failed to address what the purpose of that material was, nor have you bothered to consider what might have happened had Saddam arranged for some of that material to go to terrorists, as he arranged for arms and funds to go to terrorists.
    Before the war began last month, the vast Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center held 3,896 pounds of partially enriched uranium, more than 94 tons of natural uranium and smaller quantities of cesium, cobalt and strontium, according to reports compiled through the 1990s by inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency.

    The existence of these materials is not new or secret. So until someone has a look we won't be able to tell whether those materials, fully on record, were destroyed or in the process of being destroyed. And even if they were still there Saddam would have been very far away indeed from building a nuclear weapon. It is not that easy to build one when you have no infrastructure, even if you happen to have the materials.

    Speaking of materials and actual working warheads, one of the tricks the US played on Spain during Franco's regime was to separate the two main elements of their nuclear warheads when bombers landed on US bases or US warships docked. Spain had allowed the US to build 4 bases there but had not agreed to nuclear weapons being in its territory. By momentarily separating the two elements the US claimed it had no nuclear weapons in Spain. Neat eh?

    As for Saddam giving radioactive materials or know-how to other parties, well there is always the possibilty that might happen. As there is with every other country in possession of such materials. In fact, other countries have already provided dangerous materials and know-how to others. Can you think of any names?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    And even if they were still there Saddam would have been very far away indeed from building a nuclear weapon. It is not that easy to build one when you have no infrastructure, even if you happen to have the materials.

    Basic C4 and some radioactive material would make a rather "interesting" bomb, wouldn't you say?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's a fair point. The question remains of why a little man obsessed with self-preservation would want to attack the most powerful nation on earth out of the blue.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    That's a fair point. The question remains of why a little man obsessed with self-preservation would want to attack the most powerful nation on earth out of the blue.

    Bin Laden did. So why not Saddam?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If bin Laden and Saddam's cases could be any more different they'd be in a different galaxy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "If" Such a little word with big consequences for another 911.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    If bin Laden and Saddam's cases could be any more different they'd be in a different galaxy.

    Are you suggesting that Saddam would never support a terrorist attack against the US?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    If bin Laden and Saddam's cases could be any more different they'd be in a different galaxy.

    Really?

    How so?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Osama bin Laden: a Muslim fundamentalist who believes infidels such as US troops should not live in the holy country of Saudi Arabia and that Americans are out to get the Muslim world by their supporting of Israel and other similar actions. Head of a Muslim terrorist organisation, his hatred of the West in general and of the US in particular for the above reasons has driven him to mount a terror campaign against US interests in America and elsewhere.

    Saddam Hussein: a secular dictator who was best friends with the West and encouraged to do pretty much anything he wanted against Iran and other Muslim "menaces" to our way of life. Provided with all sort of weapons by Britain and the US, including WMDs, Saddam eventually turned on his masters and invaded Kuwait. Successfully removed from Kuwait and under severe sanctions and vigilance he spent his last 12 years in power governing Iraq ruthlessly and oppressing its people. Hated by Al Qaeda and Muslim extremists for his secularism.

    I guess they both hate Israel and like mint tea, but other than that I can't see that many similarities.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    Given the condition under which it was stored, if anyone looted anything from it, they are currently dying or more likely dead from radiation sickness.

    Or they could have transported it safely... Al Qaeda has money...
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