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The Pope
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
A ray of sunshine in any news report <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Has anyone seen the state of the bloke ? he's kind of dead, but with some sort of lingering energy, which somehow certifies him officially alive. He's always asleep, regardless of where he is and what he's doing and he appears to wave through the medium of string tied around his wrist with some priest running around on the roof yanking the string up and down.
Anyway, my point is, how on earth is he capable of carrying out duties which are the responsibilty of the pope <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> I imagine he wets himself etc....... and probably has forgotten how to write his signature, should he be allowed any responsibility ???????????????
If the queen ever reaches such a stage in life would you be happy for her to continue in her role as the Queen and head of the Church of England ?
Has anyone seen the state of the bloke ? he's kind of dead, but with some sort of lingering energy, which somehow certifies him officially alive. He's always asleep, regardless of where he is and what he's doing and he appears to wave through the medium of string tied around his wrist with some priest running around on the roof yanking the string up and down.
Anyway, my point is, how on earth is he capable of carrying out duties which are the responsibilty of the pope <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> I imagine he wets himself etc....... and probably has forgotten how to write his signature, should he be allowed any responsibility ???????????????
If the queen ever reaches such a stage in life would you be happy for her to continue in her role as the Queen and head of the Church of England ?
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Comments
Abstinence makes the church grow fondlers.
You shouldn't take the piss though, one day you will be old and some of us have elderly grandparents. I am not trying to have a go, just maybe be a bit more sensitive?
[ 19-05-2002: Message edited by: PussyKatty ]
I agree. <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
So you can just drown me when I get old <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> Less mess as well. <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
As for the Pope...well, why not? Like all appointed-from-above rulers, he's a figurehead, surrounded by (debatably) competent advisors. This is the joke of the Church.
Unfortunately, Baldy's joke was funnier. <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
One of my closest friends in a disabled (100%)Gulf War veteran. His older daughter is pretty much a quadriplegic due to obstetrician's fuck-up resulting in cerebral palsy. She has to be fed, clothed, bathed, cared for as an infant, and with only the sharpest concentration can her speech be understood. At 15, her father must even change her tampons (mother ran out leaving disabled father with two daughters). Her teachers thought her severely retarded...
Would you advocate "euthanasia" for this young woman?
When my MacIntosh was having a truculent moment a year ago, it was Liz who was advising me how to rectify that moment, through her father.
Be careful how you answer that rhetorical question, because my loyalty to Liz is stronger than to any person on earth, and I really would hunt someone to the darkest depth of the gehenna who brought harm to her, and they would beg for their death before I was through. No threat, but DEFINITELY A PROMISE...
Moral of the story? What appears on the outside ain't necessarily what you find on the inside.
What the hell was the point of that post? No one was advocating euthanasia for the disabled.
Don't try to pick fights that don't exist.
I'm not attacking old people, just pointing out that in life a certain point is reached where our ability to carry out certain functions and responsibilites diminsh, now if your the pope the importance of your functions and responsibilites is greater than your average old person.
Re-read ebb's query. Rather to the question, yes?
No, not really.
ebb was pointing out that the Pope is a figurehead. As such, the image he projects is just as important to the faithful as his mental ability.
Any leader has this obligation to his office. Look at what the King of England in the 30's (Edward something) did when there was the scandal about him marrying a divorced woman. He abdicated the throne rather than tarnish the office.
eb says - the pope is a quivering wreck, should he continue.
others say - if i'm feeble, shoot me. Or I don't want to get like that.
thanatos says - judge by what someone does, not what they look like. or just because the body is weak, doesn't mean that the mind cannot be strong.
where is the problem there? if anything thantos is the more politically correct (sorry man) one there.
The Pope does what he has to do, this isn't a position which you abdicate from, he has no real power. So why worry?
I didn't think he was there to represent peoples beliefs, but as God's "representative". I was under the impression that his role is to interpret the teachings - the ultimate preacher really.
As a religious leader, the last thing he should have is real power.
<STRONG>
Why should he be doing something, and what makes you think he isn't? How has he turned catholicism into a joke?
and you cannot force him out of the job.
<IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I said that what he does is a joke because he doesn't appear to do anything bar visit the odd country . What are they doing to help the countries they visit? He should be donating money for setting up schools, housing projects and educating people. What does he do the rest of the time?
Is this a dichotomy, or what? <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> I am not certain whether MoK has complimented me, or insulted me! <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I am not Catholic, and believing that any one man speaks for God to all followers of Him runs counter to my beliefs. However... if one accepts the premise that the singular man was chosen and appointed by a forum (inspired by God's Will) as God's representative, then it would follow that God empowers the man to lead even when the body is weak. The Scriptures state that one should be strongest within his faith when he is weakest within himself.
Given that the realm of the Pope concerns matters of faith, and not matters of the "physical world", I see no reason for phyical infirmities to disqualify the man.
Again, as a Baptist ( <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> ),I have no vested interest, and no conflicts of interest, either. Neither would I presume myself sufficiently omniscient to choose who would lead the Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, or even the Moonies. <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I think that comparisons to Edward VII? are wrong. He abdicated, not to avoid tarnishing the office, but because at the time the King could not marry a divorced woman, which Mrs. Simpson was. He therefore had to choose between his love and his duty, and he chose to spend his life with his wife. He didn't abdicate to avoid scandal; the Royal Family do not do that! He abdicated to avoid the constitutional crisis.
The Pope is different. There is no constitutional basis for him to leave his post, and indeed, no real constitution per se in which it could be argued that he should. He is not an elected figure in the sense of accountability, and therefore, he cannot be called upon to resign office.
He is a figurehead still, but I agree with previous posts. It is his words, his thoughts, and his example of supreme faith and dedication which provide the figurehead, not his physical condition. You don't think they could draft in an Antonio Banderas or whatever lookalike from the Italian Church to serve as that sort of figurehead?
We are talking about a faith which asks people to look on the inside, to judge people by what they say, and do, rather than how they appear. To judge the pope in that manner, therefore, would be hypocritical, intolerant, and wholly wrong.
Woytila is aged 82, he was shot in 1981, he had a tumor removed, he broke his leg when he was 75 or so, he has Parkinson.
He's a striking example of how a man can bear physical suffering. That is the kind of positive message a church shuold give (if church still means anything today)
If you don't understand that don't worry
..life will take its time.
I'm not christian and I couldn't care less about religion, but your tone is really bad.
The only power he holds is over an army of sycophants.
He cannot dictate national policy, start war, direct financial strategy...and he cannot make laws, only make statements based on "God's Law"...
He denounces terrorism yet catholics commit acts of terror, he argues against abortion yet catholics still have them, he is anti-contraception and yet catholics still us them...I guess that shows just how powerful he really is.
The Pope is merely promulgating this doctrine, it is not necessarily what he believes per se.
The reason being, that he wouldn't. It's not the Church doctrine. The Pope does not decide what doctrine is...
What I'm trying to do is to point out that the Pope as a person is not that powerful, it is the office. And that the incumbent is not necessarily the key figure.
For example, as an analagous statement, if George Bush was debilitated, the Presidency of the US would be still as strong, and the Cabinet, VP and Secretaries would run the country. He is, like the Pope, a figurehead, who's personal decisions are not as important as doctrine or policy.