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MacPherson

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
ok, this is the first time I've posted in this section I think. I'm actually in the middle of an essay for uni entitled ""Discuss the significance of the MacPherson (1999) recommendations on 'race' equality in British Society".
Anyway, to do this I've been looking at the annual reports that are published and I have realised that things don't really seem to be improving much. Black and Asian youths are still more likely to be stopped and searched for example.

Anyway, i was just wondering what people's opinions on this subject are. Do you think the MacPherson recommendations actually made that much of a difference?

Since its been 10yrs since the death of Stephen Lawrence I thought some people might have opinions on the topic.

Plus if anyone wants to write my essay for me I'd be more than grateful! hehe. :D
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Judging by the hideous reaction of the S*n, Daily Mosley and the Torygraph, I think the MacPherson Report did indeed hit a raw nerve. That the Met was institutionally racist is common knowledge. Things seem to have improved a fair deal when it comes to stop-and-search statistics but there are still too many cases of black people being constantly pulled over by the police because they drive a good car. The equation black person + expensive car = criminal is still being used all too often as a criteria for fighting crime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The best place for the MacPherson Report was the nearest waste-paper basket

    Shameful that Sir Paul Condom at first resisted the ridiculous institutionally racist tag but under obvious political pressure, accepted it

    They never proved a thing against the Lawrence lads and never will

    No mention of the numerous whites murdered by non-whites - not on the political agenda, is it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh dear dear what do we have here?
    The best place for the MacPherson Report was the nearest waste-paper basket
    Truth hurts doesn't it?
    Shameful that Sir Paul Condom at first resisted the ridiculous institutionally racist tag but under obvious political pressure, accepted it
    Yeah... ridiculous indeed... Next you will tell us the BNP is full of good people.
    They never proved a thing against the Lawrence lads
    Lads? Don't you mean wankstain racist scumbags?
    and never will
    Yes, and we all know why. We also know the five wankstain racist scumbags, or "lads" as you prefer to call them, are about as innocent as Adolf Hitler, and about as likeable as a child molester.
    No mention of the numerous whites murdered by non-whites - not on the political agenda, is it?
    I think you'd be much happier in a BNP/football holigan message board where you can exchange such "informed" views with like-minded people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    oh Aladdin I dont half laugh reading your posts sometimes! :D

    Yes its 10 years since Lawrence died, its also a year sice Gavin Hopley and Ross Parker were murdered, no paper coverage for them though, thats not on your agenda is it Aladdin?. ;)


    Yes, and we all know why. We also know the five wankstain racist scumbags, or "lads" as you prefer to call them, are about as innocent as Adolf Hitler, and about as likeable as a child molester.

    You ever actually studied the case, there was no way in the world a guilty verdict could be delivered. No way in the world, Im amazed you seem to have more knowledge of the case than the judge and jury. ;)
    Black and Asian youths are still more likely to be stopped and searched for example

    well, when 60-70% of Londons prison population is black, I think its fair that they do, why should the police be stopped from doing there job just because someone is a different colour?

    Wankstain, I think I know the only one looking a 'wankstain' in this thread is :D

    Mr Frenchie :D:D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes Semper. poor Aladdin just can't get that when the Lawrence 5 were found not guilty, in law that's just what they are

    One of the main stumbling blocks in the prosecution was that pillar of society and great thinker Duwayne Brooks. Lawrence's mate, who changed his identification evidence quite a few times times during the trials

    What are the legacies of MacPherson, a host of over-promoted black police officers lording it over than more talented colleagues, expansion of the Race Relations industry and of course nore crime and violence going unchecked
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Lawrence 5. Of course not helped by the bent copper on the payroll of one of their criminal dads.

    Duwayne Brooks got to be dodgy, why else would the police have reason to continually arrest him, shame the charges were continually dropped through lack of evidence.

    I'm sure one day they will get to sue the Daily Mail for they're false accusation of murder.


    MURDER IS WRONG REGARDLESS OF COLOUR

    ALL VICTIMS R.I.P
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    That the Met was institutionally racist is common knowledge.

    Every single organisation is institutionally racist if you believe the definition used by MacPherson. Including the Comission for Racial Equality. In fact, if you use his definition, I'm sure that you are racist to Aladdin...

    That's why the report should be condemned to the waste paper bin. It just undoes most of the good work of the past couple of decades.
    Originall posted by Semper
    well, when 60-70% of Londons prison population is black

    This may have something to do with the fact that they are searched more often - therefore the likelyhood of find a criminal increases. It may also be related to the increased chance of a black defendant being given a custodial compared to a white defendant. It may be because the custodial sentences are often longer for blacks.

    Sometimes raw statistics give a misleading picture and you need to drill down a little further...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have actually studied the case Semper. You can do so too if you wish. The 5 scumbags not convicted of the murder are only still free due to a combination of one of the biggest police investigation blunders in British history, and indeed some institutionalised racism by the cops who made the initial enquiries. They ignored numerous witness statements, including a written one from an friend of the 5 "lads" and initially treated the murder as some "black-on-black" drug related crime, paying Lawrence's friend's and families' accounts little attention.

    Never mind secretly filmed footage of some of the accused practising at home the best way to use a knife in order to "kill a nigger".

    The fact is all the recent talk about getting rid of the double jeopardy rule is partially fuelled by this specific case. Because if there was to be a fair re-trial those 5 poor excuses for human beings would be found guilty rather quickly.

    So much as I hate the Daily Mail, I take my hat off to their calling the five scumbags murderers and challenging them to sue. Such a shame that they didn’t isn’t it?

    And how pathetically typical of racist apologists to drop names of white victims of racial crime. Have you read the title of this thread? Do you know what are we discussing here? Do you want to compare numbers of white victims of racial crime against non-whites?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because if there was to be a fair re-trial those 5 poor excuses for human beings would be found guilty rather quickly.

    Not a chance, never was, never will be

    Aladdin, you just make it up as you go along, don't you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by solo
    Not a chance, never was, never will be

    The thought of those heroes of the British White being jailed is horrendous isn't it?

    Well at least they'd become cause celebre amongst racists, just as David Copeland is. What are your thoughts on him Solo?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally I reckon those 5 men were guilty but who am I to dispute the courts decision. Id like to see them get their justice though...

    However, i dislike the whole situation around the macpherson report. It seems to whip up hysteria but change nothing...

    People complain about stop and search but i cant see a problem with it..

    Ok racists regularly go on about how blacks/asians are more likely to commit crime and try to back up their claims with prison stats. The counter argument ive most often seen used is that crime is associated with poverty, a higher percentage of blacks/asians live under the poverty line and therefore thats the reason why there are proportionally more blacks/asians in prison.

    I totally agree with this..Crime comes from poverty, not race.

    Now, the problem I have is that this same logic is not applied to the stop and search situation by the exact same people who use it to dispute the prison numbers.

    Stop and search generally targets those in poor areas, those who look poor, dodgy etc. There are a number of examples of black guys being stopped in 'white' neighbourhoods etc, but that isnt the main area of stop and search.

    Again, blacks and asians happen to moreoften be under the poverty line, living in the 'ghetto' areas and are victim to more stop and searches as a result of that, not their skin colour.

    Thats my opinion anyway..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by solo
    Not a chance, never was, never will be

    Aladdin, you just make it up as you go along, don't you?
    I have just spent some time reading through the threads on this site and you, Solo, have never made a point that you have backed up. Take this statement for instance.

    Why would there never be a chance of them being found guilty should there be a re-trial? Hmmmmm?

    Aladdin, unlike you, thinks through his arguments and makes a good deal of sense. You on the other hand are small minded, racist and to put it bluntly - scum.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And how pathetically typical of racist apologists to drop names of white victims of racial crime. Have you read the title of this thread? Do you know what are we discussing here? Do you want to compare numbers of white victims of racial crime against non-whites?

    er.........hate t burst ur bubble but last home office figures I read stated that whites are the biggest VICTIMS of racial crime. I havent got time now, but Ill get the facts for you later.

    though I dont see the point.........you have made your argument and I believe you will stick to it......

    ........even if the judge, courts, police and jury disagree....but of course they are wrong and Aladdin from London is right eh? ;);):D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin, unlike you, thinks through his arguments and makes a good deal of sense.

    That's an unproved assertion to start with

    Never will - lets see, 2 murder trials which collapsed, a coroners court with maximum publicity, Daily Mail (large circulaton) headline 'Murderers'

    I'd be very worried about the vindictiveness of British justice if this matter ever came before the courts again

    I think they would have brought fresh charges if they had anything up their sleeve

    Best put to bed now, other cases to deal with unless they want to appease the Race lobby for ever more
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The MacPherson report was based mainly in the Stephen Lawrence case. And the fact remains that the police acted with extreme negiglence in this case, negiglence prompted partly by instituonalised racism. The report didn't suggest that the police are racist bastards; it suggested new ways should be found of treating crime surrounding black victims and the way they are investigated. And things have improved since. But there used to be a fair amount of instituonalised racism on the police force, and there is really little doubt of that. Take the black businessman who was pulled over a total of 32 times in a two-year period because he drove a top of the range BMW. I wonder how many times the average white BMW driver got pulled over in the same period.

    Solo, there are many trials that collapse due to technicalities or fuck ups by the prosecution or the police, even when it is bleeding obvious the accussed are guilty as hell. Because of current laws is next to impossible to get a second trial so the accused get literally away with murder. Most recent high profile case was Damilola Taylor's. Do you remember him?

    With regard to the five scumbags' presumed innocence, let's put it this way: there is much, much more incriminating evidence of those five murdering Lawrance than of Osama bin Laden being behind 9/11. Yet I'd bet a month's wages Solo here and others did not hesitate about bin Laden's culpability for one second, and wished he'd been killed even without standing trial.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most recent high profile case was Damilola Taylor's. Do you remember him?

    Yes, another case where a Black victim was given a great deal of Police attention and where politicians cosied up to the the family. Boateng giving a speech at the funeral. A nasty inner-city case where thick kids were acting hard, they weren't white, of turkish origin, 2 of them, AFAIK
    there is much, much more incriminating evidence of those five murdering Lawrance than of Osama bin Laden being behind 9/11.

    WTF does that have to do with with this thread. Why do assume what I'd think about that. Keep your ' month's wages ', I have enough change in my pocket, thanks:D

    As for the 'black businessman', what are the police to do, dealing with rising drug-crime by black criminals who also have a penchant for top of the range BMWs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Point about Damilola being that even though those kids where guilty as hell the case had to be abandoned because the star witness 'enhanced' her statement to ensure she got the cash reward offered. Like I said, that a trial has to be abandoned has nothing to do with the innocence of the accused.

    It irritated you that the Damilola case got so much attention did it? I wonder if that was also the case with Sarah Payne's murder...

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Point about Damilola being that even though those kids where guilty as hell

    The omniscient, all-knowing Aladdin sees all

    the Damilola case must have been a disappointment to the press , assailants not white. If ppl live in Peckham that's what goes on there

    Cheap shot referring to Sarah Payne, but as I said before, Aladdin, you just make it up as you go along, don't you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by solo
    Cheap shot referring to Sarah Payne

    Trans: You had a point

    Just remember re: Damilola/Lawrence cases (plus numerous other cases throughout our history) - the verdict in a court of law doesn't necessarily equal "the Truth", just an indication of whether a person in deemed guilty/innocent in the eyes of The Law. It is possible to be guilty, yet found innocent and vice versa.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by solo

    Cheap shot referring to Sarah Payne

    Why? Because it exposes you? Because you find it annoying that the brutal murder of an innocent 10 year old black kid gets press coverage (presumably because you don't think it's much of a deal)? So I'll ask you again: did you also find the press coverage regarding the brutal murder of Sarah Payne annoying?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    [
    did you also find the press coverage regarding the brutal murder of Sarah Payne annoying?

    No, I found it very much more moving. The crimes are quite dissimilar in nature, do you understand that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A murdered child is a murdered child. Both crimes were horrendous in their own circumstances and both got lots of coverage for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, I found it very much more moving. The crimes are quite dissimilar in nature, do you understand that?



    Absolute classic! For those of us who dont understand that. Please tell us further how the murder of one child moves you more than another.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    No, I found it very much more moving. The crimes are quite dissimilar in nature, do you understand that?



    Absolute classic! For those of us who dont understand that. Please tell us further how the murder of one child moves you more than another.

    *coughcolour of skincough*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your train of thought has hit one its own buffers again, Aladdin
    not 'coughcolour of skincough' but something about the nature of a little girls abduction and all that followed

    Sarah Payne's funeral arrangements weren't quite given the State ceremony status of those in the Damilola/Lawrence cases

    This weeks 10th yr Lawrence church service had Ministerial presence, a bit of political capital to be milked
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin I am starting to find you quite absurd.

    If you HONESTLY HONESTLY believe that the difference between the press coverage of Damilola Taylor and Sarah Payne was because of skin colour I would seriously suggest you get some kind of medical help. I wont go into it, 99% of people know exactly why this was the case.

    To be honest I am finding it difficult to take anything serious you say at the moment, you are starting to sound like a lunatic.
    The omniscient, all-knowing Aladdin sees all

    aye Solo :( I think he is coming across as the most 'I know it all' person I have ever seen any message board:(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suggest you read the posts a little more carefully before making stupid statements.

    Read it again to see if you get it. If not, here it is:

    At no point I have suggested the press coverage between the Taylor and Payne cases was different. I have asked, however, if Solo felt the press coverage about Payne's murder was annoying.

    Because, you see, he found the press coverage about Taylor annoying. And since everything Solo has posted so far seems to point out that he might be a bit of a racist- and I don't seem to be the only one who thinks that- I was just checking if he also found the press coverage about Payne's murder annoying. Just to confirm my suspicions really.

    Anything else I can help you with?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was just checking if he also found the press coverage about Payne's murder annoying. Just to confirm my suspicions really.

    I might well have responded to 2 different childrens' murders differently for reasons other than race , but it's 'elementary dear Watson, the scoundrel is a racist' from Aladdin

    So does the Press, some go un noticed, there was one in Manchester not dissimilar to the Taylor case, paragraph on p3 job
    Point about Damilola being that even though those kids where guilty as hell

    How do you know that, Aladdin, was in in a tabloid?Maybe the Met tried to hard with that witness, why , not to avoid 'echoes of Stephen Lawrence' criticisms. Just a thought

    I'd genuinely like to know any background on the Taylor case that slipped my attention so thanks in advance for answering my question

    :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The trouble with the MacPherson report is that it was too generalised- hell, according to what the MacPherson report decided, the CRE and the pro-immigration lobby look racist. Its trash, as it proves nothing but is full of nice soundbites for the political parties to rape to death.

    The police fucked up, of that there is no doubt. If the coppers who fucked up had been sacked thered have been no problem, but to say they fucked up because Lawrence is black is preposterous. They left him alone, which was an horrendous mistake, but in that part of London the streets are full of black men sleeping pissed simply because it is a predominantly black area. If Lawrence was white the police would still have fucked up, but noone would have complained. Quelle surprise.

    And its the same with the trial- there is no doubt that those who attacked Lawrence are guilty as sin, but theres no proof. the police fucked up some of it, much much mroe of it was circumstantial. However, despite guilt, the law could no prove guilt, so they are innocent- the tabloids and Lawrences gobshite of a mother cannot do the job of the judicial system.

    MacPherson did more harm to race relations in thsi country than anything else in the last ten years- I believe the gobshite in that report can be pinned back to the rise of the BNP. The police arrest more ethnic minorities because the ethnic minorities do more crime- it is to do with social inclusion and poverty, yes, but alas the police are there to arrest criminals not to be social workers. It does not matter why the ethnic minorities do more crime to the police, and it should not- it should matter to society in general, but not the police who are paid to arrest crminials. MacPherson ahs meant that the police in Bradford, where I come from, are too afraid to arrest Moslem youths who throw lit fireworks at police stations because of the race card, it ahs also meant the Bradford rioters ahve got lighter sentences despite burning down buildings filled with people out for a Saturday night drink.

    When the inaccuracies of macPherson are rectified, racism can once again be eradicated. But when people like Lawrences mother get OBEs for "services to the community" despite spouting racist filth against the police, and whites in general, then white people will be less tolerant fo ethnic minorities. The impression from MacPherson is that its OK for ethnic minorities to do crime, because when they are arrested its police racism, but it is not OK for whites. Beat a black guy up its racial, beat a white guy up it is not. THAT is why the BNP are getting votes, people are sick of rioting filth getting five years in prison for what essentially was attempted murder because they are Moslem, when white equivalents get longer.

    Racism will survive as long as people like Lawrence are given a mouthpiece, and rewarded for racist diatribe. She lost her son to a royal fuck up, its horrible, but its not racist and its not white peoples fault. the sooner she realises this then the better for this country.
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