Tobacco

Former Member

I wonder how much a packet of fags will go up this year???? <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

Hopefully a hell of a lot.

Id rather smokers get hit for taxes than the poor.

Former Member

I agree with balddog, maybe people would think twice before taking it up if a pack of 20 cost around a fiver.

My b/f smokes, it makes me so pissed off thinking of the money he spends which will make him ill and smelly. It would be over £1000 a year..enough for a luxury holiday...still it is a smokers choice, they can not complain, nobody forces them to smoke and there is a lot of help available to stop.

Former Member

Originally posted by Balddog:
<STRONG>Hopefully a hell of a lot.

Id rather smokers get hit for taxes than the poor.</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

Originally posted by * k-t *:
<STRONG>I agree with balddog, maybe people would think twice before taking it up if a pack of 20 cost around a fiver.

My b/f smokes, it makes me so pissed off thinking of the money he spends which will make him ill and smelly. It would be over £1000 a year..enough for a luxury holiday...still it is a smokers choice, they can not complain, nobody forces them to smoke and there is a lot of help available to stop.</STRONG>

aye aye aye - but its his CHOICE to smoke. anyone getting sick off tobacco smoke knows /knew of the risk and are undeserving of any aid.

Former Member

Yes I know it's his choice, I said that already. But if you think of how much tax smokers contribute through the tax on cigarettes surely they are entitled to use the NHS the same way someone who drinks, eats too much fatty food and sunbathes with no protection is.

Former Member

Id rather smokers get hit for taxes than the poor. /QUOTE]Unfortunately a lot of people are in both categories..... <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

[ 17-04-2002: Message edited by: Toadborg ]

Former Member

Originally posted by * k-t *:
<STRONG>Yes I know it's his choice, I said that already. But if you think of how much tax smokers contribute through the tax on cigarettes surely they are entitled to use the NHS the same way someone who drinks, eats too much fatty food and sunbathes with no protection is.</STRONG>

but why must there be additional taxes on the cigs? I mean, they cost enough as it is and to use it to fund treatment that they know theyll need for it is circular in logic almost saying, well we re taxing it so when I get sick Im effectually paying for my treatment - dumb.

Former Member

Why is it dumb? If cigarettes were cheaper then more people would probably smoke and they would smoke more.

It is better to tax something that the buyer has a choice to buy-rather than TAMPONS for example-I think they may have stopped taxing them now, not too sure.

Former Member

Originally posted by * k-t *:
<STRONG>I agree with balddog, maybe people would think twice before taking it up if a pack of 20 cost around a fiver. </STRONG>

A pack of twenty already costs a fiver! Well, £4.20 if you smoke some brands. The thing is, i don't think that the government should raise taxes on drinking and tobacco, and the VAT we pay in britain is extortionate as it is... I do however, think that they should do something about the income tax bracketing - create a new tax bracket for those people who earn just enough to be in the top bracket, but aren't earning hundreds of thousands - for instance, at the moment, someone who earns say, £40,000 a year is actually ending up with a smaller income than someone earning £25,000 a year, because the person earning £40,000 a year is being taxed at 40%, and the £25,000 person isn't - and the higher earner isn't entitled to benifits either, although they have a lower income. Oh well. i don't know, i'm just tired.

Former Member

I think VAT should be abolished, it is an unfair indirect tax. The revenue should be replaced by income tax. which IS much more fair

Former Member

Originally posted by * k-t *:
[QB]Why is it dumb? If cigarettes were cheaper then more people would probably smoke and they would smoke more.

which benefits the economy.

Former Member

Oh well who gives a shit about the health of people if it benefits the economy? It would probably be a similar revenue anyway:
eg 50 people smoking and fags cost £5 a pack
as opposed to 100 people and fags cost £2.50....same thing but more people have bad health.

Former Member

Originally posted by * k-t *:
<STRONG>Oh well who gives a shit about the health of people if it benefits the economy? It would probably be a similar revenue anyway:
eg 50 people smoking and fags cost £5 a pack
as opposed to 100 people and fags cost £2.50....same thing but more people have bad health.</STRONG>

Supply and demand. baby - so long as the people want them they'll buy them much to the benefit of the economy.

Simply put, at least here in the states, the govt benefits enough off cigs but distributes little to the economy.

Again - I say smoke all you want, be aware of the risks and when you get sick - dont complain. Still isnt sufficient justification to raise taxes though.

Former Member

Again - I say smoke all you want, be aware of the risks and when you get sick - dont complain

I kinda agree, though there should be help for those that want to quit i.e free patches etc. Can you get them free at the moment?

Former Member

Originally posted by Toadborg:
<STRONG>I kinda agree, though there should be help for those that want to quit i.e free patches etc. Can you get them free at the moment?</STRONG>

help yes - I say health plans should (in the US they do) cover them. Id object to giving them away because in some manner, the manufacturer would be screwed. Perhaps the taxes already on cigs should go to paying for something like that, to raise the taxes would be stupid and victimizes those who simply enjoy their habit.

Yes Im a capitalist and quite unapologetic.

Former Member

Id object to giving them away because in some manner, the manufacturer would be screwed.

Surely the government would still buy them off the manufacturer?

Former Member

Originally posted by punkinlondon:
<STRONG>the VAT we pay in britain is extortionate as it is...

</STRONG>
Not compared with the rest of Europe - I believe ours is less than the EU average. And they have higher income taxes too.

<STRONG>for instance, at the moment, someone who earns say, £40,000 a year is actually ending up with a smaller income than someone earning £25,000 a year, because the person earning £40,000 a year is being taxed at 40%, and the £25,000 person isn't</STRONG>

No that's not true. Above ~£34,000 or so the tax rate is 40%, but only for the amount above £34,000. ie The (wo)man earning £40,000 is only taxed at 40% for the extra £6000. Otherwise, as you point out, the system would be flawed.

And yes, income tax should be the government's target.

Former Member

Originally posted by Toadborg:
<STRONG>Surely the government would still buy them off the manufacturer?</STRONG>

Americans. Bless.

Yes you can get free patches at quitting centres. And yes I wholeheartedly with that - as long as the support is there too. There's nothing more difficult than trying to give up cold turkey.

Former Member

Originally posted by Toadborg:
<STRONG>Surely the government would still buy them off the manufacturer?</STRONG>

which creates a bidding war to those who supply lowest cost items thus inferior

Former Member

Originally posted by Toadborg:
<STRONG>Unfortunately a lot of people are in both categories..... <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
</STRONG>

Well then thats their own choice. They wouldnt be so poor if they stopped spending massive amounts of cash on fags.

Former Member

smoking is a personal choice but one i particulalry hate. the smell the smoke and the selfishness of many smokers does nothing for their image and i for one would happily see tobacco tax put up to ridiculous amounts. similarly in terms of general tax if the gvmt sorted out things like the national health - reducing beuracracy and crap like that the tax increase to pay for the £20 billion input into the health service wouldnt be needed. cut out the crap, save us all money and we'd all be happier. happier people are healthier people and thus those that need it might get better quality care as there wont be people blocking beds. a simplistic view i know but wouldnt it be great if it actually worked.

Former Member

Cigarettes should be taxed heavily, it is very fair. Now put it this way: cigarettes are harmful to health and nicotin is highly addictive - the same effect as most illegal drugs. The government can in theory, ban cigarettes totally and made it illegal, put it as the same catagory as cocaine for example. They have all the reasons to do this. So smokers should be grateful that cigarettes are actually legal and they can buy it in shops, as paying higher price is still better than can't get it at all.

Former Member

I smoke, and I agree that cigs should be taxed fairly highly. Anything over £5 for the more expensive brands is getting a little stupid though.
I also think that they should be banned and that smokers should NOT be grateful that they are legal as if they weren't they wouldn't have gotton addicted to them and be getting cancer. Anyone who starts off smoking thinks they won't get addicted.

Did they go up in the budget? I missed most of it...

Former Member

They are up 6p per pack of 20

Former Member

That's not a lot, is it? Poor me the national insurance rate gone up, so I have to pay more tax to fund the NHS (as they said the fund will go to NHS), a non-smoker to subsidise the smokers!!

Former Member

Originally posted by NiceK:
<STRONG>That's not a lot, is it? Poor me the national insurance rate gone up, so I have to pay more tax to fund the NHS (as they said the fund will go to NHS), a non-smoker to subsidise the smokers!!</STRONG>

It's the equivalent of £8 billion a year.

As for National insurance contributions, middle earners will be inbetween £20-£30 a MONTH worse off. You probably spend more than that on a night out.


Unfortunately they can't raise the price anymore as they are scared that it will encourage smuggling.

[ 18-04-2002: Message edited by: Whowhere ]

Former Member

The government would never make fags illegal, cos imagine the money they would lose and can you imagine the cops chasing up around 10million* people for smoking...All they can do is try to encourage people not to start smoking in the first place and I agree with the cost of cigarettes rising, if it puts people off starting, then surely its a good thing!!!????!!!

*I don't know how many people smoke in UK. GUESS????!! <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

The thing is, I don't think it *does* encourage people not to smoke. I know plenty of people who after every budget would say that they have to quit because smoking's become too expensive, but very few actually do.

The only thing that's really going to make a big impact in making people quit smoking and never take it up in the first place is more education and an attempt to change people's attitudes so that smoking is seen as being antisocial.

If people want to smoke, they're going to smoke, no matter the price. All that raising the cost of cigarettes does is make those with less money have more stress and less money. And the stress, of course, makes them want more cigarettes.