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Just life a Brit, not even bringing a knife to a gunfight. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> Lost in delusions of grandeur? The Lost Empire? Gonna talk us to sleep, then take our guns from us?
Feeling awfully brave, aren't you? Lambchop? <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Lets settle this like gents: leave your guns at home <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
roflmao
I think there is only one (well two, if you count the oil-rich anal extension) person guilty of revisionism here. Yes; the Americans gained independence through violent revolution. But let's consider a few home truths about the American Revolution:
It is, however, 2002. A power with the capacity to invade America would undoubtedbly be a nuclear one, and in such a situation as a war, total destruction would indeed be mutually assured. It would never get as far as an invasion of the continental United States. A lunatic in Washington with a big red button would see to that. So, you see, America's own military power debunks entirely your myth that gun-ownership is vital. What will your next ridiculous argument be as you are proven wrong again and again?
Oh dear. A failure as well as an imbecile.
I never leave my guns at home. There is always a .45 on my hip, and an AK-47 with me, and frequently an FAL also. But then, that was the point, right Lambchop?
You can step away from your inflamatory derogatory homosexual appellations, also. No joke. May be your practice, but is not mine.
In this country, you would already be dead.
If the reference was sufficient to get ME banned from this place, equitable treatment would demand that YOU be banned, also...
What "derogatory homosexual appellations"?
I was merely pointing out that Diesel is a sycophant, who relies on you to back him up when he flounders under the pathetic arguments. </STRONG>
Another "promise"?
Bring it on.
Check your history books. 1880? Was that when WW2 happened, according to your history books? Or haven't you learned to read yet?
Equally revised as to your delusion that the US was defeated by peasants in Vn? US did not lose, as has already been stated, but left having attained mission statement of preventing NVn from conquering SVn. Invaision of NVn was prohibited politically. During the siege of Quang Tri, while US forces were down to 10% strength, we still pushed a MUCH larger NVA force back across the DMZ to NVn. (But then, US forces ALWAYS faced a much larger army in VN.) NVA were not peasant militia, but a well trained and equipped regular army. VC had essentially ceased to exist after the Tet Offensive.
You are discussing this with those who were there, not merely mouthing your propoganda handed down by your handlers. You are over your head, unless you are simply attempting to post the most delusional concepts possible, and then you will win by default...
If you think the US military is such a pushover, take your best shot, Lambchop.
The word "bitch" in this country has a particularly offensive meaning. We observe restraint concerning your colloquialisms (which are meaningless here) under pain of banning. Similar courtesy should be expected, unless you intended the epithet???
Diesel is no sycophant. He served his time in combat, as an officer. He also plays much nicer with you than the rest of US, and one would expect a better display of courtesy. Or was the "soccer-hooligan" thought steel on target?
If you have so little respect for the posters here, then why post at all?
Why not just piss off to your ex-Marine bulletin boards to whinge about us children.
You can't have it both ways. Either give us a little respect and use this board for what it was intended, or leave and pontifiacte elsewhere.
I have a great respect for Balddog, MacKenZie, Jacki-da-Rippa, even MoK (tho I disagree with him most often). Others also.
Some of you really ARE children, not by age, but by perspective. Those of you who willingly disarm yourselves and depend upon the mercy of your sheepherders and handlers really ARE sheep. Neither of those terms is as inflamatory as your usage of the sexual epithet...
btw ~ y'all kin ask Diesel... I plays EVER so more nicely wit' chall than MOST forums ah postes at. <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> lmao! <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Did you think "Thanatos" means "nice guy"? <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> Take a look at your posts; you do not get the full measure of what you (and others) shovel out... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Ain't no "ex-Marines" be heah. We's ALL be wearing the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, and will be guardin' the Pearly Gates 'gainst them crashin' the wire... <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
You are showing yourself up to be an arrogant, narrow minded, cocky, pompous little man, who uses his former military experiences to dictate how our lives should be run.
Well, Thanatos, we are not living through a war. If we lived our lives in the kind of paranoia that you think is normal behaviour then we'd never get anything done.
And since gun matters are the only thing you are confident about posting on, what do you think that says about your life?
I actually feel quite sorry for you. 'Nam has obviously affected you quite badly, and I think you should consider some sort of treatment for your aggression.
There are many issues which I post on, at many sites. Few things concerning your life in UK that I relate to, but then, you would not have much to comment about concerning the most of life in Oregon. Shall I start threads dedicated to local politicians/issues here? <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I have seldom been the person to broach the issue of "gunz", in deed, most often, I allow your threads to get rolling before I comment.
I have led a full life, and have experienced more in many diverse pursuits than the most of you have in any (MoK being the previously noted exception). That, however, is to be expected: I am 50 years old, not 18. And no, I am NOT going to list those areas. You wouldn't believe it, in any event. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> Just as you wouldn't believe where Diesel has walked; he has more than a decade on me. <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
"Arrogance" is you believing that at 18 you have experienced more and comprehend more about life than those who are 50 or more. You want to "re-educate" us concerning what we lived through. Used to be that we respected those more experienced, and tried to learn from them. Not you, however... you know it all. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
The war is coming, and only the blind and/or delusional cannot see it. Isn't paranoia to lock down the shutters when you see the funnel cloud of a tornado on the horizon... but then, you relegate issues of personal security to anyone else, right? You do not have to worry about consequences.
Such is the privilege of youth...
I do not claim to be a superior knowledge on any matter concerning warfare, or the intricate workings of an AK47. I am, however, qualified to talk about the principle of firearms in the hands of the general public. I may comment on any political matter. Whether I am wrong or not is irrelevant - I merely express an opinion.
We disagree on this particular matter, yet you insist on continually making personal references which, quite frankly, are pathetic. Your 'sheep' and 'fecal flow' insults are especially irritating. And I don't think I speak just for myself.
Just grow up and live with the fact that we disagree. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Yes, it sounds like it <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
So would you like a medal? The problem here Thanatos is that I know 50, 60, 70 year olds who I discuss issues with, and they use their experiences of war etc in the discussion, not dictate to me that I 'don't know anything and my opinions count for shit because I haven't experienced it.'
How the fuck do you know? You are too busy WRITING IN CAPITAL LETTERS or in bold or italics trying to think of the next put down. I think it is extrememly unfair to assume that. Some of us here have experienced things which have had to make us grow up pretty damn quickly.
I'm sorry Thanatos, but any respect I had or ever will have for you has gone down the drain. I respect the people who treat me like an adult, who I can debate with without being called a 'sheep' just because my opinions don't match with them. You don't treat people like that and then expect respect in return just because you happen to be older.
The final futile attempt. Pathetic. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
go go_away!
I agree with what you said, you just say it better than I would!
I take no sides in this personally, but it would be a great shame if Thanatos or Whowhere were banned from the boards. I accept that there is a difference of personal opinion, and that neither side will budge, but it is foolish to engage in direct confrontation like this.
Whowhere, Prufrock et al., to some extent Thanatos is right. It is the carpe diem of youth that allows us all to pontificate about things which we have no direct experience of, and to think that we know something. Like it or not, he has a lot of experience, and I think that he makes a valuable contribution to these boards.
Thanatos, to some extent Whowhere et al. are right. No one questions you or attacks you personally, but you seem to do that in return. This right which we pontificate under is guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States which guarantees freedom of expression and freedom of speech. No one of our age can profess to be an expert, but we can, and do offer an opinion. That is all we ever do.
My motives are not those of sycophancy, but merely of trying to uphold the ability to discuss with people I respect. I don't want to see people get banned over this; I enjoy the discussions with you all far too much. Can we try and cool it, and for the sake of it remain on decent terms with each other?
As weapons go, AK-47's are far from "intricate"... that has much to so with why they are so prolific. <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Thanks for the clarification. Am grateful for the glimpse at how your "logic" "works"...
Posting supposition unsupported by experience certainly outweighs the experience of having been there and survived the topic of discussion. Right? Curious as to how you would define "arrogance" if that is not the definitive arrogance.
Think about that last sentence, if you will... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
No, this is not an attack upon you, DJP, because you do not paint yourself with the same brush of decorum as many others here. You would appear to comprehend that supposition does not exactly balance experience. That engenders a return of respect...
1st Amendment to US Constitution - the right to freedom of speech - was written in a time when there was responsibility and accountability for what you spoke. If you defamed or insulted a man with your words, your next words were for the choice of weapon, and you backed up your beliefs with your life.
As much as it might irritate many in this place, I have backed up my beliefs and words with my life. The question is: have you?
The things I speak of with conviction were the effects of a caldron I sincerely doubt you will ever see the likes of. How old are you? What have you done? Have you been shot? Killed another man yet? Or were you simply detained for a few hours after a civil disturbance, and lost some internet access time?
Much of what is discussed here has no bearing upon my life. Raves, drugs, trysting: who cares? Other issues, spoken from your ignorance of reality, will be repeated often enough to be accepted as FACT if not confronted as the bullshit they are. You already accept so many fallacies as factual account, like Vox Dipshit's version of Vietnam... <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Oh boohoo! I am SO hurt! <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> Your words are EVER so more traumatic than the path I have survived. <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> LMFAO!
Read my last post. Rather self-evident, isn't it?
{edit} Before you make the rush to make me your scapegoat (and I doubt that I affect your life in UK to any degree), examine yourself, and what YOU contribute to the decline of your society...
[ 06-05-2002: Message edited by: Thanatos...AGAIN ]
I have never expressed an opinion on the political state of the USA during the Vietnam war: I know nothing about it.
I have never expressed an opinion on what it is like to pull the trigger of a gun and shoot someone dead: I have never done it.
I have never even pretended to understand what it is like to be shot at in a war: I have never been there.
You have done all those things, been there, and experienced it. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who is prepared to fight for his country, and risk his life doing so.
However, when you live your life as if you are still at war with a mythical foe, then I start to ask questions. What is truly pathetic is that whenever you are challenged, you resort to insults and cheap put-downs.
You are 50, I am 19. I have never pretended to be anything else.
But I have experienced things that you never have. I have read things that you never have. I live in the real world, not a fantasy where everyone is out to get you, and you must shoot at anyone who comes within 50 yards.
You have your experiences, I have mine. The difference is that you demand instant respect because of the gun you carry round with you.
You really don't understand how the world works do you?
bollocks, yeah there is...but we seem to float along
Thanatos, you have NO IDEA how much self-control I am excercising right now. There are very many things I would like to point out. However, most of them concern you personally, rather than the issues in question, so I'll ignore the vast majority of them.
The only things I'll take issue with are your blanket criticisms of us. How dare you suggest that youth = stupidity? you only say such things because we disagree with you and you've lost the argument. I'm sure any 18 year old against gun control would mysteriously win a good deal more of your respect, which suggests that it's not our inexperience of the world that bothers you, it's our ability to articulate opinions opposite to yours cogently and without using the bizarre syntax you so often insist on. (All this stuff you KEEP repeating about dumbing down... you aren't cleverer becaus eyou're older or because you were a marine.)
Arrogance? You call us arrogant because we disagree with you, because we presume to have an opinion based on facts and passionately held beliefs rather than based on fear and bloodlust. Your arrogance is to persistently ignore the evidence presented to you (witness our rebuttals of your points re: australia and Lott which you have STILL not convincingly answered) and simply believe what you want to because.. well, just because you want to. there's no greater arrogance than the ability to ignore reality and stick to your guns (no pun intended); there's no greater arrogance than the belief that wisdom is something automatically conferred with age. Your patronising remarks about how nice you are here compared to other bbs where you get real tough are another confirmation of your serene and unjustified belief in your own innate superiority.
Once again, I'd point out that despite having already been asked to depersonalise the debate, you have persisted in making it an issue of the stupidity of youth - and that there would be no need to point out these things about you if you didn't accuse us of them.
This is my last post on this thread, because I don't think anything constructive is going on, and I feel I'm just as much a part of the problem as anyone else. i'm finding it very difficult to seperate personal antipathy and the matters in question, and it'll become difficult to maintain any kind of evenhandedness. Sorry it got so bitchy.
God bless Mr Turbo Head <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Society is based on change. Change in culture, change in beliefs and changes in the law.
Just because we live life differently now, does not mean society is descending into chaos.
Yes, I think society has its problems, however all societies have their problems. Human civilisation has had the problems of robberies, burglary, drunk and disorderly since we started living in communal situations. Rome for instance was rife with sexual depravity, other civilisations the same. Look at Islam and the Mormons for instance, where multiple wives is not uncommon and is promoted. I'm not saying they are depraved, but their experiences, and subscequent views of society are different.
I think when compared to some of the things our ancestors got up to, our society is relatively peaceful, (not internationally, but locally).
We've always wanted to kill, steal and be the top dog as it were. Nothing has changed, except the methods. Now we can become top dog by simply marketing a successful product, or by running for president/prime minister.
If anything, i much prefer society as it is now, crime is relatively low, infant mortality in the West is almost non-existent, many of have a life expectancy of at least 70. We are stronger, more intelligent, more dextrous. We have a greater value in the sanctity of life. Even 50 years ago our major strategy in war was to kill as many innocent people as possible. I think more can be said for society than some might think
3 cheers for society <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">