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acheieve your dreams through violence and you say its right - heres to enjoying your eventual downfall.
Additionally, the Seattle situation was more a shopping spree than it was protest. Your cohorts stole merchandise, merchandise from the capitalist corporations they were supposedly protesting against.
You are a moron.
Globalise Resistance the voice of the anti-capitalist movement
not a shopping spree - explain how thousands in merchandise was stolen from Niketown you violent little twit!
It will never happen. A rebirth of communism has about as much a chance to happen as Thanatos swearing off guns.
Communism never went away you idiot!!!There have been Marxist organisations around the world for decades! The so called communist countries that existed in the past were not true communist countries as they did not have democratic workers control of the means of production.
If you haven't noticed the anti-capitalist movement has been growing rapidly over the past three years since June 1999 when there was a global day of action against capitalism including a demonstration of 4,000 people in the City of London. Since then there have been many massive anti-capitalist demonstrations all over the world with up to 300,000 last year in Genoa and 500,000 this year in Barcelona!
There is also a massive communist gathering in London every year called Marxism which attracts thousands of people to its week long series of meetings.
Keep tryin' boy even a morons dreams are important to the tooth fairy.
IT WILL NOT WORK IN A HUMAN SOCIETY. All attempts at communism have, and always will fail.
As for Mayday, SCUM. The whole bloody lot of them. If they don't like capitalism then they should fuck off and find an island somewhere.
Socialism does work! Liverpool city council for example was ruled by the Marxist Militant Tendency wing of the Labour party from 1983 to 1987 and during that time the council was so popular that there were demonstrations in support of the council of up to 50,000 people!
The full story of the socialist Liverpool City council from 1983 to 1987 is here!
Capitalism is a global system and causes massive amounts of damage such as Third World debt which leads to millions of deaths through starvation and environmental destruction and wars. Capitalism has to be fought against in every country. Running away from capitalsim and living on a remote island will not solve the problems caused by global capitalism!
They would not be allowed to find an island somewhere, for a start.
Secondly, many of the people at MayDay are protesting about destruction of the environment, or third world debt, or other such causes. Why should they fuck off and find an island? Do you disagre that something should be done about third world debt? Do you like the way that cooperations like McDonalds are destroying the rainforest in South America?
MOST of the people who protest at MayDay are just people who want to see a bit of humanity where some issues are concerned. Some go to start a riot. THEY should fuck off and find an island somewhere (preferably an uninhabitable one).
You display such a close minded view, and one which is not standing back an looking at the problem from both sides, something which I believe you prided yourself on in another post. Comments like that are unconstructive, pointless and frankly insulting.
I stopped eating McDonalds ages ago and now don't eat any commercial fast food....all I get is grief from my friends about it...bah, ignorant sods.
I hate what they're (McD) doing to the rainforest, more should be done to stop it. All my friends are relatively intelligent, and they know that McDonalds and the like are 'evil' (in my opinion :P) to some extent, but they still eat there.
Can't be out of convenience as they often go out of their way to eat there. Can't be because they like the food, because nobody is really that tasteless are they <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">? I put it down to total complacency.
Anyway, I'm off on one here, this should be in a 'McDonalds' thread.
What exactly do you hope to achieve by having these riots/violent demonstrations?
The only way you'll ever overthrow capitalism is to win over the general public. The greatest influence on the general public is the media. Every riotous demonstration you and your ilk perform is 9 times out of 10 reported in a negative light in the media (with few left wing exceptions), because the media will always twist things to their own interests. Their own interests, more often than not, being that of the capitalist class.
You being a Marxist should know this more than anyone...yet you persistantly go out of your way to piss off the people who could make the changes.
Murdoch controls 38% of the UK National Press, violent riots against the very thing he stands for seems to be the stupidest approach possible.
Buy that man a beer. <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
All true, but interestingly (and fairly, INHO) after last years MayDay protest there was a huge attack on the police by the media. They agreed that they had done things badly. In that respect, it was considered by many a victory for the protestors, as they were given sympathy and the police were in the wrong.
I recall the police being praised by several newspapers and the government for their handling of it. OR was that a different protest? Where they bottled all the protestors into one street?
By the way I have found a website which has details of squatted social centres around the world it is at http://squat.net/
Men, women and children??? LMAO. Maybe, if those 1000 protestors, had found something constructive to do with their time then they wouldn't have been held. And if memory serves, it wasn't raining last May day, it was a nice, if slightly overcast day.
And they were given access to food/water and toilets, if they asked. But being hippy scum and being unable to form coherent sentences the police probably thought they were being abused.
What strikes me as funny is, that out of all the 10,000 protestors last Mayday, 90% had no idea why they were protesting anyway.
They all knew why they were protesting!!!!The reasons for the protest had been put in literature that was advertising the day of events for weeks in advance! And it had been discussed in organising meetings for weeks in adevance as well! They were protesting against things like sweat shop Labour in the Third World, Third World Debt, The arms trade and things like western multi-nationals destroying the environment. On that day there were several smaller demonstrations around central London about specific things before the crowds went to Oxford Circus at 2pm. So they knew full well what they were protesting about!
Globalise Resistance vioce of the anti-capitalist movement.
[ 27-04-2002: Message edited by: stealgate ]
Whats the basis for that comment?
What I find funny is that you talk about this protest like you know everything about it. When in reality you weren't there, and the majority of your comments have been wrong, you clearly have no idea what it was like, and you constantly resort to insults in a Thanatos type way.
There was heavy criticism of the police after the event, because a lot of people thought that the best way to uphold the law was not to break it.
I hope you realise that one of the reasons people were held for so long was the large amount of people outside the lines causing trouble. <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
And Whowhere, the second part of his post is actually better constucted, makes more sense, is true, and actually generally better than any of your recent posts. When steelgate is arguing better than you, you need to worry.
As for calling the police scum....I look forward to the day when I sign up and get to arrest you for tresspassin.
Every police officer I have EVER met has got more decency in his arsehole than you have Steal Gate. You repeatedly mention that people at Mayday werne't out to cause trouble, when they clearly were???
You grunt on about Communism being the next best thing, when every single example of it being attempted has led to corruption and poverty.
You mention Russia being at war....what about Cube when it turned communist...? It's in a worse state than most other countries on earth. You need to rethink this, and come back when you have a working example.
People were there to protest against global capitalism not to cause trouble you idiot!!!The protest was advertised as a day of action against capitalism not as a riot!!!
Also if you don't believe that the police can be scum you should read up about the 1984 miners strike when the police were used to smash a workers strike to save jobs. Then thousands of striking miners were arrested, hundreds jailed and two killed after protesting on the picket lines!
Marxist.com
[ 28-04-2002: Message edited by: stealgate ]
The regime that were established in China, Cuba, North Korea and North Vietnam were not true communist regimes! They were stalinist state capitalist regimes which had nothing to do with real communism at all as they had no democratic workers control of the means of production!!!
[ 28-04-2002: Message edited by: stealgate ]
The Russian revolution would have been a success had it not been for the beaurocratic counter revolution which only came about because of the enormous problems that Russia faced after the revolution. Russia faced a massive war against the White army which tried to destroy the workers state. This war left the country so devastated that it was then easy for the beaurocratic counter revolution to take place.
You've contradicted yourself before in several places, but never so glaringly obvious. Before you have stated that true communism and equality will only happen with global support. Decided to change your mind have you?
And you seem to completely ignore my arguments and turn, instead, to arguing about communism with stealgate (an easy task, lets face it).
MOST of the people at the march were not intent on violence.
Everyone was held (illegally) and treated worse than animals, with no food or water or basic facilities.
There were children crying and begging to be allowed to go home, and the police forced them to stay, endangering their lives. When you can justify that I will be surprised.
Minless has got it right on this one I think! <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I do accept that the police may have been heavy handed. However, being from a police family, and having a huge amount of respect for them. All this is my own opinion, something I don't expect to back up with facts and figures.
IMHO the police were heavy handed, but short of arresting them all, or spraying them with a water cannon, or peppering them with rubber bullets, how else were they supposed to stop them?
At times like these, I am also more likely to take the word of a police officer than a protestor who hates the police and the governmet.
The protestors knew the police would be there in large numbers, and they knew the police would not tolerate disorder, and would stop any marchers, peaceful or not. They know the same thing will happen this year. Anything that happens, they only have themselves to blame.
Stop them from what exactly? As far as I know the vast majority of them were braking no laws. Sounds a lot like wrongful arrest/detainment to me.
And I'm more likely to take the word of someone who was there, than someone who was brought up with a 'blue and white spoon' in their mouth. For want of a better expression (a much better one:P).
And the police have what right to do that? Last time I checked Freedom of speach included the right to assemble, petition and protest.
This changed now? Or do the police just overlook it?
Genuine question there, I don't know.
The police also have a responsibility to uphold the law and prevent disorder from occuring.
The protestors may not have been breaking the law directly, but their presence led to disorder in the capital.
The criminal element amongst them also meant the police felt it was safer to stop them all than from questioning them one by one. If the protestors are going to let a small violent minority ruin their protest, maybe they should think about discouraging the violent offenders from going to the protests.
Because as long as the police feel there will be a violent presence there, they will do all they can to prevent violence from occuring. If that means imprisoning a few thousand people temporarily then that can only be a good thing.
The police only overlook the right to petition when they think serious public order disturbances will occur from it. If they take the reports of violence for this May seriously, then they will no doubt do the same. They are well within their rights.