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Hunting
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Ok this will have been a thread before, but anyway, what do you guys think to hunting/testing on animals etc?
My family is split on this one, my brother thinks carry on killing them, my mum and myself are totally opposite and my dad just sinks down and keeps quiet. <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
My family is split on this one, my brother thinks carry on killing them, my mum and myself are totally opposite and my dad just sinks down and keeps quiet. <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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Im anti-fox hunting
Im pro animal testing for serious reasons
Im anti animal testing for cosmetics and pointless shit like that.
back later for more detailed reply <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Name a single creature that has accomplished more in 2000 years....
If other creatures are so great then how come we're top of the food chain..?
I'm not even going to argue about horse racing, it's a sport for pete's sake. You show me the proof that MANY (not one or 2) of the animals are seriously hurt, then i'll eat my hat.
Then suggest what we do with the horses instead of race them? Let them roam free, howabout we just kill them anyway for fun?
So what do you think about hunting then WhoWhere?
'many are put down after races.'
Yeah coz soooo many horses were put down after the Grand National! One horse out of a field of 40 doesn't constitute 'many'.
So just because you watch one horse race over the whole year, you think that all horse races end up with casualties?
The actual figure is negligable and when it does happen, it is a shame, but not grounds to stop the whole sport.
Fishing and shooting I have no problem with at all and participate in both frequently, but I find any sort of hunting with dogs pretty distasteful.
That, however, does not mean I think that it should come down to a vote in parliment. I would like to see an end to hunting though having it banned is not the answer.
I really can't understand all these anti hunt protesters. Yes it can be cruel but why are they putting so much effort into saving a couple of mangy old foxes when they could be helping endagered animals, the disabled, the homeless and other charity work. It's these pathetic people who piss me off more than the hunters.
An outright ban on hunting would mean the distruction of many many hounds and horses. Many people's lives depend on the hunts and by banning it outright would cause much more harm than good. Peoples attitudes need to be changed but fox hunting should not be made illegal. That's not the right way to go about things.
Why they have to have jumps though is beyond me. It's only the jumps that mean these horses are put down. Are they really nessasary?
AliMarie are you a vegetarian?
I am personally indifferent to fox hunting. If people want to hunt, then fine. I'm not bothered.
I'm more pissed off with the "morally superior" people who think that every sport should be banned because it might be cruel, even though they have never done it, don't know anyone who does it, and are only complaining so they can be seen to be jumping on the bandwagon with everyone else.
So what if humanity has caused problems? What do you suggest we do? Commit suicide, tell 6 billion people that we've cocked up and we should just end it?
If you didn't realise, in 2000 years its only been in the last 100 when we invented industry, so maybe, just maybe it might take us a bit more time to work out how to do it quickly, and cleanly?
Maybe you should give your race more credit?
Prob will write a longer response to this thread when I've got a bit more time, but this is just purely a factual point. Industry has been around a lot longer than since 1902. In Britain, at least, it's been around since the eighteenth century. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Yes...no need to be pretentious! Fine, industry has been around for SEVERAL hundred years.
Humanity has existed for about 40,000 at least.
If you have never eaten a buffalo or elk steak or had venison stew/sausage/chops, etc., you just haven't eaten.
Or were you talking about hunting human wildlife?
Testing drugs on rodents...OK! Testing cosmetics is OK too!
Diesel
88888888 <img src="http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/coffee.gif" alt="image">
I favour animal testing for essential drugs. I don't hate animals, but at the end of the day, that drug could be saving my life. Is this a selfish approach? Yes. Do I care? No. Why? Because these are animals we're talking about; not humans.
Exactly! That's why we must stop washing at once! Everytime you wash anything, literally billions of bacteria perish! "But wait!" I hear you cry. There's a distinction between bacteria and horses, and other such animals. Yes, there is. There's also a distinction between animals and humans. We are superior. I haven't recently seen my pet dog do any differential calculus.
Interesting point. Imagine this world, but without humans. Ask yourself would forest fires still occur? Would huricanes? Tsunamis? Volcanoes? Droughts? Floods? I think the answer to all of these questions is yes. These phenomena destroy ecosystems. Destruction of ecosystems occur naturally. When we destroy ecosystems, we're just catalysing a natural process. I'm not really too serious on that point. I think conservation is important. I just don't like environmentalists telling me what's natural and what's not. We're a species of animal, as you have pointed out. We have evolved (I don't mean genetically, I mean in terms of civilisation) to this point without any interference from aliens. Thus we're currently existing, by definition in our natural state, and will continue to do so whatever state we exist in for the rest of our existence.
Animals can also wreck ecosystems. Populations get out of control for whatever reason. Other species suffer. Conservationalists often engage in culls to prevent this happening and maintain a status quo in an ecosystem. They are conserving the ecosystem, but they are not allowing it to exist in its natural state. We, as humans, have a neat idea that keeping nature exactly how it is is best for nature. In doing so, we stunt what would be happening naturally. I'm not necessarily criticising here - I want to continuing seeing spotted yellow hedge sparrows* as much as anyone else. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.
*Made up to compensate for a lack of actual knowledge.
Exactly...and after fox huntng is banned so will shooting and fishing and finally you wont be able to swat a wasp for fear of getting hassle from these animal rights protesters. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
[ 09-04-2002: Message edited by: 'Skive ]
My question is - do the anti hunters want to ban all hunting over there, or just this form of it? I mean, would this entail deer, duck etc??
Personally, I have no problem with it - I hunt here in the US; deer mostly and the occasional pheasant. There is nothing cruel about what I do - no moreso than what goes on at a factory farm, so I dont really grasp what all the fuss is about.
They're pissed off because it is the dogs that do the killing, not the people. I don't personally see the problem with it. Ever thought it is tradition because dogs may have been used for hunting sometime in the past....?
I have an idea, maybe because it is a pointless blood sport, why don't you get the hunters to eat the foxes afterwards?
<IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I also think in a way its less cruel using dogs, its nature versus nature that way, i feel using guns, rods etc...... is far more unjust on the victims <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Feeling really full of your pretentious arrogant self-styled elitest self, aren't you? Or simply mired within another drug induced stupor? <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Any hunter worth a damn knows that you take the animal quickly... you do not want it to suffer more than necessary, and the excessive adrenaline from fear will ruin the taste of the meat.
It is not simply "country bumpkins" that hunt... but few bookish little geeks find themselves capable of the role.
Like many veterans, I have seen my share of killing, and I do not hunt anymore. That does not mean that I am so self-possessed as to tell everyone else how to live...
Had a woman come into my auto repair shop a couple of years ago; she had just come from a protest in southeast Portland, OR. Seems there was a mansion in the older section of town, and a tree had grown in the driveway. In order to sell the property, it was necessary to cut down the tree, then remove the stump, so that the driveway was again usable.
Woman had been part of a large crowd demonstrating for "tree's rights"... she had been clamoring that a commission needed to be set up to study the emotional trauma suffered by trees forced to grow within the city. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
There are already laws governing the length of time that a pig or chicken can be transported before it is butchered... this woman was proselytizing for broccoli's rights...
Woman saw a "Guns and Ammo" magazine on a table in my waiting room, and starting shrieking that "YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MURDER OF ALL OUR CHILDREN!!!" Fat Rosie O'Donnell wannabe. Replied "I haven't killed any children lately, but if yours are anything like you, then a very good case could be made for culling them from the gene pool."
Point being ~ if you are made too squemish by reality, then by all means, initiate your protest for "broccoli's rights", but kindly leave those of us who are NOT reality challenged alone.
Oh gosh the outrage!! they'ed be slughtered in no more than 5 hours. In which time they would be run half to death, Terrified and then savaged by 30 odd dogs (we wont give the Para's ammo, after all, huntsmen dont shoot the fox do they?)
And if we want to keep it real, we could give the para's landrovers like the hunters have horses.
Theres nothing better than the hunter become the hunted is there! And for the first time in history we'd have 'Sloan rangers' and posh toffs lining the streets in protest to the cruelty of hunting.
Fitting dont you think?
And when was the last time in nature did you see/hear of a pack of man breds hounds chase and rip apart a fox?
Lets face it the only reason it up for debate rather then being ban like badger baiting is most of the arseholes that do this, run or have large inflanace on the goverment.
<IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
ITS F**KING SICK... SIMPLE <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Yeah I like that one. My EX has given me a real shit deal, stress over 5 years, run up large debt for me to sort out. verbal abuse and uses my daughter as a weapon aganst me.
SO LEAVE ME BE and let me chase her accros feilds and have her ripped apart by dog <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> after all guns are unjust on the victim arnt they and it not like we short on women around hear is it? <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
<IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
[ 10-04-2002: Message edited by: Ibbow ]
I couldn't care less either way, to me they are foxes. Woopy do, foxes, big deal. Fox hunting has its roots in times long ago when we used packs of dogs to hunt anything, from people to deer. All sports have their roots in an activity from hundreds of years ago. We've always sent packs of dogs off to kill things, why do people have guard dogs for instance? to look pretty, to make a nice sound if someone comes close? No, because they can rip people to shreds.
Likewise, if they stoppd hunting foxes, they'd find something else to hunt, or to get round the law they'd shoot them at the end instead.
I'm afraid there is no way you can make me feel empathy for animals, and at the same time you can't make me picture the shoe on the other foot, because that simply wont happen. When foxes turn around, regroup and attack us, thn i'll eat my hat. Not before.
Or the exsintion of another species just for the sake of 'fun'
go on whowhere imagine being chased by a battlion of squadies with dog for fun. I'll do it for you. Your running for you life for someone else's pleasure! Think your out forraging for food for you kids and some F**ker decides to kill you for fun, you run but its pointless, face it your last though is gonna be your kids staving and them wondering why you left them. Rule out your partner looking after them... thay got her an hour ago. you dont get to say goodbye or tell them you love them. And they arnt gonna accept the explaination "thats just the way thing are" and they wont survive without you.
i have read stories of dogs being kept in small cages not surviving the winter because they are ill and the farmers can't be arsed to save them, and then being starved on purpose so they wil chase after the fox and rip it to shreds. it makes me physically sick.
now onto the foxes they are chased until they can run no more then they are savaged by a pack of 30 or more wild dogs who have been starved and don't know what they are doing because they are blind with hunger.
then when the hunters call them away before the fox is actually dead so the fox lies there in agony for hours dying a slow painful death, how can yo call that ok because it is a tradition.
now animal testing is sick. i am dead set against it. i have heard stories about some of the top companies who are priding for there safety of animal testing and then you hear stores of their fck ups. once they went through 5 monkeys for an experiment and they all died in the end because of stupid reason like cutting incisions too deep into them and then the final monkey died from the product anyway because it was unsafe.
animal cruelty is sick, animals weren't put on this planet for us to test on them. if anything they have more right to be here. ok we maybe top of the food chain but that does not immediately give us superiority. anything like this makes me physically sick.
*waits for flaming* <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I want to join the armed forces, so no doubt that time will come. I will be hunted down for some General's sick pleasure.
Of course, I'll be able to fight back, so maybe you're right.
But like I said, I'm not for or against fox hunting. It isn't my cup of tea, but I'm in no posistion to criticise other people for doing it if I have never done it myself, and if I don't know anyone who does it.
As for animal testing, I am FOR it, if it is for medecine or research purposes. I'm afraid cosmetics isn't a good enough reason.
Maybe we don't have any right to test medecine on animals, but I'm afraid I'm rather selfish. I'd rather see a rabbit die than a person, or thousands of people. And despite what you say, the researcers aren't unusually cruel when doing this, they keep animals in cages because...guess. They don't have the space or time to let them roam free in a nice little garden.
But let's just put this into perspective, next time you goto the doctors, chemist's or the hospital, you better not have any medecine, or buy a contraceptive pill, or go under general anaesthetic, or take anti-biotics. They've all been tested on animals I'm afraid and it would only be hypocritical for you to use them, knowing some poor likkle bugs bunny wabbit has died somewhere so you might live longer.
[ 10-04-2002: Message edited by: sex_kitten76 ]
It depends on what is being tested. I don't want animals to suffer for the sake of a nice glossy lipstick, or shampoo and conditioner.
Without the use of animal testing for drugs, a lot of people I know would be dead by now
Edited cos i just saw sex_kittens edit! <IMG SRC="redface.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
[ 10-04-2002: Message edited by: go_away ]
in the swamp a 'man' and a crocadial... who's gonna eat who?
a Man in the sea is he gonna eat the shark? NO.
he's in india is the tiger gonna be breakfast? no its human with lashins of Claret sauce on the menu. and do any of them do it for fun... no.
So where did we get the right to hunt foxes? because they nick the odd one of 'our' chickens (the ones luckiy enough to live outside of a cage)?
we are a Menace to this planet.
edited cos the are some post between this and who it intended to reply to.
adding mayby we should stop animal testing of all kind and accept our mortality. after all we are infesting the earth and populations are swelling.
Notice house prices going anyone? building sites everywhere? how any animals lost their habit to concrete? the whole of east anglia used to be swamp and marsh, now it grows sugar and bread so you guys can buy it in the shops for 30p or less.
[ 10-04-2002: Message edited by: Ibbow ]
i agree with that don't see where we get the right foxes need to eat too the only reason they hunt food from our farms is because we are a menace and we steal all of a foxes natural resources, what are they going to do? Starve, Not likely.
You give a man a weapon, he'll make short order of those sharks/lions/tigers. We may not be the top of the food chain one on one, but our ability to adapt has ensured our survival.
We are one of the only types of creature to survive the ice age. Mammals are the only creatures that prevailed when the comet hit millions of years ago.
I accept that we are a menace to society, but you can't deny that we are improving. In the millenia before industrialisation we didn't make too much of a mess. Then in the short time it took us to industrialise we did. However, we've only been playing at God for a short while, relatively speaking. I think that you should do the human race more credit, give us another 50 years, we will have technologies such as fusion, solar power, oil will have been consigned to thehistory books.
Synthetic materials that look/feel/smell e.t.c like wood, synthetic proteins that look, taste, smell and are indistuingshable from meat, but are artificial.
We have only just started, give us time, we will improve.