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kids work and a womans place

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
OK
Today I had a really annoying conversation with a bloke I work with.
He said that he thought women were shits for 'chucking their kids in a creche or leaving them with strangers' so that they can carry on working.
He felt that women who have kids should be prepared to stop work and raise them 'properly'. On the other hand he complained that women get 'too much' maternity leave.

I agree that men should be given as much paternity leave as men but that women are often breast feeding and so the reason they have so much time (Which lets face it isn't that long) is because they have to care for their newborn in a way that men biologically cannot.

He then said that women should be happy to stay at home but generally they sit around moaning and then have affairs because they just cant be satisfied!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds to me like hes had some kind of bad experience.

Anyway - a short while later a female colleague e-mailed round all the staff asking if anyone could recommend a child-minder who could pick up her kid from school at 3.30 pm and look after it until 5.30 each working day. My friend mailed it onto me saying 'point proven'!

My argument is that presumably the father of that child was also unable to collect it from school because of his job (or perhaps the father is not involved in the childs life) so what makes it more of an immoral issue when its the woman who can't pick the child up?

It makes me mad because there are so many women who cannot afford to give up work and he's suggesting that they are bad people for 'putting their career before their child'. There are also women who want to work and not be with their kids 24/7...just like there are plenty of fathers who don't.

Also, children get the opportunity to socialise with other kids in a creche and this can be a good thing.

he's being a prick isn't he?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: kids work and a womans place
    Originally posted by byny

    he's being a prick isn't he?


    a very big prick, most likely with a capital P. Tosser.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep.


    I, personally, would like to stay at home and just look after my kids (if I can afford it!) until they are... I don't know maybe secondary school age - because that's what my mum's done for me and my sister, and I think it's been an advantage to us that my mum's been around all the time and brought us up completely herself.

    But I'm only 17 so that may change, and I think any woman who wants to work should be entitled to do so, and just the same with any father. I do think though that paternity leave shouldn't be as long as maternity leave because as you said byny, mothers need to look after their babies biologically like breast-feeding while fathers don't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    course hes being a twat. I just humour people like that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd like to live on a smallholding and share the childraising and the farming with my partner and both be there for the kids but it probably won't happen.

    If a mans partner dies in childbirth but the child survives does the man ger the same amount of leave as the mother wouold have seeing as he would be the sole carer?

    I would like to think I could spend time bringing up my children without needing to work but I'm sure when it came down to it i'd really want to be in work again.
    The problem with maternity leave being so long for women and not for men is that the woman kind of gets pushed into a greater caring role and so when she returns to work the man can sometimes assume that the woman will continue to do as much while holding down a job. if fathers had equal time the roles might be more equal from the start. As it is women very often deal with all the organisation that comes with having a child.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I will stay at home with my Daughter until shes old enough to look after herself. I would not have liked leaving her with a chilminder at a very young age and seeing as I dont have family local to take care of her I will not go to work unless I have to.

    Im not qualified in any jobs, so id be your local granny working in "Sainsburys" and with the wage id get I wouldnt be earning enough to pay a child minder, i might as well stay at home.
    Also when my Daughters ill who does she want? ME. So im there for her. Schools have lots of holidays every year so I also think about that and what if the child minder cant have her then?
    I feel no matter what job I would do Id like to be a good employee, so me taking days off here and there due to my Daughter would not be on.
    I brought her into this world so im going to take care of her. I do not think badly of mothers who go out to work, they may have to make neds meet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my mum stayed at home with us until i (the youngest) was old enough to go to school full time.

    even then she got a 9-3 job (with all school holidays off) so she could be there to pick us up from school.

    i'd like to do the same for my kids.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It worries me a bit...this child rearing thing. I was brought up by parents who worked from home (As farmers) then my parents went o university and me and my brother and sister were left to get ourselves to and from school (Not far down the road - I was 9).
    Then from about 13 both parents worked in another town so we were pretty much responsible fro getting ourseves to school etc and often cooked and cleaned for ourselves. We all went onto some kind of higher education, didn't go off the rails and turned out ok...and very independent.

    However..I work in a town 15 miles from where I live and my boyfriend is a meter reader so he's on the road all day. We live near his parents but 25 miles away from my mum (My dad is dead)

    I earn lots more than my boyfriend so I can afford to pay for things we both need while he sometimes can't.

    there is a really good susidised creche at my work so if I have a child I would be able to leave him or her there from an early age but it would be totally my resposibility to get him or her there and back again. I would probably continue to get back home before my partner and would therefore (As I do now) probably be the one doing most of the cooking. At the moment I am also the one who gets up extra early to walk our dog! In one way having a child would just mean adding extra time to my daily routine and fitting him or her into an already existing routine. However I have no doubt it would be exhausting but rewarding.

    if either of us was to give up work it would make more financial sense for it to be my partner, perhaps thats what we will have to do.

    When our children start school it will be harder and I hope that my 'in-laws' would be able to help but I wouldn't expect them to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think ill probably stay at home until Lennys at school, as im not qualified, so like Becky, i could probably only get a shit job anyway, which certainly wouldnt make it worthwhile. Plus I love bringing him up and would hate for someone else to see him all day yet I would only get to see him when hes about to go to bed. I can appreciate that a lot of women need to work, and i know how hard it is when you only have one income coming in to support a whole family, and theres also people that dont feel fulfilled as a stay at home mum, and its good that these days we have the option to go back to work if we want. I dont think mums should be pressurised into going back to work when their children are little, because its not always in their best interests or their childrens.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny
    In one way having a child would just mean adding extra time to my daily routine and fitting him or her into an already existing routine.

    you might be in for a shock there, youll probably find that your daily routine goes right out of the window.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah - you are right I know...but I am good on little sleep and changin routine..I guess though that the shocks will come when I have to deal with illness and holidays. Its not going to put me off though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    THe thing is, you say it would be a shame if mothers are 'pushed into a greater caring role' because their maternity leave is greater, but I actually think that's right - men are men and women are women for a reason - we're better at looking after children, it's what biology made us for. It's great that we have so many opportunities to do what we want and I don't take it for granted that I have so much more freedom than my mother or my grandmother did at my age, but I still think that a 'woman's place' is, to a certain extent, to stay at home and look after her children - at least while they are very young.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by perfect***day
    THe thing is, you say it would be a shame if mothers are 'pushed into a greater caring role' because their maternity leave is greater, but I actually think that's right - men are men and women are women for a reason - we're better at looking after children, it's what biology made us for. It's great that we have so many opportunities to do what we want and I don't take it for granted that I have so much more freedom than my mother or my grandmother did at my age, but I still think that a 'woman's place' is, to a certain extent, to stay at home and look after her children - at least while they are very young.

    I see your point but if both parents are working then it is unfair that women should deal with the fetching and carrying on their own while their partner takes a rest from a hard day.

    Also women do tend to care for their partners too (as far as cooking and home making go). I would like to feel that if our child was ill my partners boss would be as flexible as mine would have to be (by law). So this new flexible hours stuff will have to apply to both parents.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny
    yeah - you are right I know...but I am good on little sleep and changin routine..I guess though that the shocks will come when I have to deal with illness and holidays. Its not going to put me off though.

    NO sleep sometimes, when babies awake ill all night, or they get the days mixed up with the night. So during the day baby is sleeping and night times when youre knackered baby just wants to gurgle in the cot :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    NO sleep sometimes, when babies awake ill all night, or they get the days mixed up with the night. So during the day baby is sleeping and night times when youre knackered baby just wants to gurgle in the cot :lol:
    or they just cry both day and night for a while. but its still worth it, dont let anyone tell you otherwise. Youll probably be surprised by how much you WANT to stay at home after you have a baby, whether youre the higher earner or not.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    or they just cry both day and night for a while. but its still worth it, dont let anyone tell you otherwise. Youll probably be surprised by how much you WANT to stay at home after you have a baby, whether youre the higher earner or not.

    Yeah agree totally.

    You want to see the 1st smile, you want to see the 1st tooth, you want to see them when they 1st crawl, you want to see them take their 1st step...........but not last, if your working them you could be last to see everything.
    I think when a baby comes your view changes totally, all you care about is that baby and you will do anything you can so that baby always comes 1st :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But you have to accept that many women cannot be there to see these things, and men too and it doesn't mean the end of the world or that they don't have good relationships with their children!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no its not the end of the world, but i think that people that work do feel sad that they miss these things. im sure if the mother works right from the start it must affect the bonding process somehow.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny
    But you have to accept that many women cannot be there to see these things, and men too and it doesn't mean the end of the world or that they don't have good relationships with their children!!

    What im trying to say is if you have the option to not have to work then I think you would prefer to stay at home. If you have a child and then return to work you could feel that youve missed out on so many things. Yeah Daddy plays a part but its not the same, he hasnt carried the child for 9 months.
    I am lucky that i dont have to work, my hubby supports me but im one of the lucky ones. Also im a very protective mother (to protective to be honest) and I couldnt just have anyone having my Daughter so thats why ive chosen to stay at home till she can look after herself.
    Who knows how you will feel, you wont know until you have a child. Im not against mothers going out to work dont get me wrong, unless of course they never see the child.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    After my daughter was born i stayed at home for a year, which i would never change as it was sooooo precious seeing all of her firsts, but i couldn't have handled it any longer!

    She has gone to nursery since she was 1 and been there full time since september and we are still best buddies! Its probably better as I have much more patience with her as the moments we have together are all the more precious.

    I now have a cool balance between being a working mum and also having a social life, and I wouldn't change it for anything. :):)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My parents tended to balance out their work lives so that there was always one of them in the house to be with us, my dad worked the normal 9-5 job and my mum worked on Saturdays for a few years and then went onto night shifts. If need be she left us with my nan so she could work but that wasn't very often.

    I don't think it's reasonable to expect women today to be at home for all the child's life, especially as they're doing A-Levels, going to uni etc. Although I do think fathers should get the same leave as mothers, I know I'd like to see my children during those few early months and mothers often need a lot of support during the early days so that's what their partner is for right? Ideally, I wouldn't want my wife to do a conventional 9-5 job until the children were at full-time schooling so say aged 5 or so but this is the ideal and I'll have to see what happens as the time arises. :) I'd like flexible hours too - ideally whenever the children are out of school there should be a parent there, that's my belief on this in short.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I definitely think fathers should get paid leave when their children are born. my husband took a month off when Lenny was born but he had to take it out of his annual holiday, therefore he couldnt take any more time off for the rest of the year. parents are entitled to take unpaid leave but most people cant afford to do that. I will definitely start working again when he reaches school age, if not before, but i have a problem with leaving him with someone who i dont know. I could cope with leaving him with my mum or with his dad, as i know they love Lenny as much as I do,and he loves them too, but I would feel uneasy leaving him with anyone else
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