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in light of the jubilee and all... should we abolish the monarchy?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thrown most of the hereditary peers out of the House of lords
    Slog I know you are a Tory but would you care to explain some of these statements, what in particular was dynamic about the fucking hereditaries?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>Slog I know you are a Tory but would you care to explain some of these statements, what in particular was dynamic about the fucking hereditaries?</STRONG>

    I don't think you got the gist of my message. I meant throwing them out was a dynamic move! I reckon the result was a mess, but you can't call the government stagnant!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes I did completely misintepret your post <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> , Oh well........ <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Captain Slog:
    <STRONG>

    I don't think you got the gist of my message. I meant throwing them out was a dynamic move! I reckon the result was a mess, but you can't call the government stagnant!</STRONG>

    Once again

    Im disgusted with our entire parliamentary system, that doesnt just include the labour government.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    <STRONG>

    Once again

    Im disgusted with our entire parliamentary system, that doesnt just include the labour government.</STRONG>

    So what would you do to improve it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I find it surprising that anyone really thinks the queen exerts, could exert, or would want to exert any power. This is all a bit conspiracy theory.

    MPs aren't that bad, balddog, and I'd defend the 1st past the post system that elects them. All we ever hear about are the coorrupt ones: most of them are genuinely public spirited, I reckon, even if we disagree wth them on specific details. Proof? well, a hell of a lot of MPs are excellent lawyers by trade... they take a massive pay cut to do what they do. Even Tony Blair is on a relatively small amount - far less than his wife earns. SO it can't just be greed, corruption, etc.

    What democratic alternative do you have in mind?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've started a new thread where we can discuss the structure of government as a whole, so we can keep this one for debate about the monarchy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Prufrock:
    <STRONG>I find it surprising that anyone really thinks the queen exerts, could exert, or would want to exert any power. This is all a bit conspiracy theory.</STRONG>

    She probably doesn't exert any real power but there would be no point in having a queen who didn't have the ability to exert power. Powerful monarchies are like nuclear weapons. Its a case of having them but not using them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Prufrock:
    <STRONG>most of them are genuinely public spirited, </STRONG>
    Originally posted by Prufrock:
    <STRONG>well, a hell of a lot of MPs are excellent lawyers by trade... </STRONG>

    Hmmmmmmmm..

    Money is not the only source of corruption in this world. Power is even more of a motivator.

    Capt Slog, I dont know....I honestly cannot think of a way to rejuvinate the political system in this country without the political equivalent of colonic irrigation, just flush out all the shit.

    The current crop of politicians are all the same. Theyre all lawyers, theyre all practically related, not through family but in their business interests and their historical links. Most of them have been in politics for decades..Even when they get fired they just move into a different position or different party.

    We need a whole new set of politicians in this country. Sack the current lot and bar them from ever practicing politics again, then start the whole process off again..We will have another couple of hundred years before the flaws in the system start showing up again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We need to rid ourselves of all the arcane ceremony, pageantry and pomp that bogs us down, these lords and bishops in our system are disgusting. Knock down the houses of Parliament and build a new building.... <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>We need to rid ourselves of all the arcane ceremony, pageantry and pomp that bogs us down, these lords and bishops in our system are disgusting. Knock down the houses of Parliament and build a new building.... <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    I don't think it neccessary to get rid of the ceremony, thats just a bit of fun and doesn't contribute to the actual democratic processes. However I agree on the lords and bishops. Quite frankly Labour's reforms have left the upper house in a mess. I think we should have a fully elected senate instead of the current halfway house.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surprisingly I almost agree with Balddog here. Just with a different slant.

    The monarchy provides us with the stability with no political system can offer. 50 years experience can only be gained over 50 years, and I am certain that the advice received from the Queen will by 1000 times more use than that supplied by a politician. She has no axe to grind (other than a Royalist one <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">)

    With regards politicians, public good my arse. POWER, influence, greed how many other motivators do they have?

    They will happily stab each other in the back inorder to react the next rung on the ladder. WHat makes you think they treat us any different?

    Look at the sleaze allegations over the past few years, jobs for your mates, donate a million and we'll protect you from our advertising ban, cash for questions, Asil Nadir etc etc ad nauseum.

    How many <STRONG>poor</STRONG> politicians are there?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    <STRONG>With regards politicians, public good my arse. POWER, influence, greed how many other motivators do they have?</STRONG>

    My thoughts exactly. Politicians get where they are because they want the power. Therefore they are greedy (show me a politician who didn't want the power and I'll show you a liar). Monarchs get the job whether they want it or not, so they are not influenced by their own greed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Monarchs get the job whether they want it or not, so they are not influenced by their own greed.
    The royal family not greedy <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> are you having a LARF?

    I think most politicians do genuinely want to make the world a better place, it is a shame if you don't agree....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok we sort of depend on our tertiary sector for our country's income these days and many people enjoy seeing and learning about our royal heritage! In some respects we are extremely lucky to have them. IO definately support them and think that sometimes our country prides too much into their private lives. So surely everyone should respect the royal family?!?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So surely everyone should respect the royal family?!
    What have the royals EVER done to garner any kind of respect?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>The royal family not greedy <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> are you having a LARF?</STRONG>

    Well, they have everything, why would they want more?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    indeed, they are a shining beacon of charity and humbleness...... <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>indeed, they are a shining beacon of charity and humbleness...... <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    Well actually... yes! Who do you think came up with the Prince's trust and the Duke of Edinburgh's award? How many charities have royal patrons? The royal family have done more for charitable organisations in this country than any celebrity you care to name. Interestingly, the Queen is well known for going around turning off lights and recycling things. Why? To save money, of course. Are these the actions of an uncaring, ostentatious bunch of rich spongers? Absolutely not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know they do a lot of charity (as PR <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> ) but the fact is that they live opulent lifestyles that they were born into and have not had to earn like the rest of us, this is fundamentally against the rules of our society....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>I know they do a lot of charity (as PR <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> ) but the fact is that they live opulent lifestyles that they were born into and have not had to earn like the rest of us, this is fundamentally against the rules of our society....</STRONG>
    But lets be fair: if we're objecting to the royal family wasting large amounts of cash, shouldn't we be pointing the same finger at the Beckhams?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But they have "worked" to earn there money, the royals just get it....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>"worked"</STRONG>
    Precisely.
    IMHO, the royals do earn the money they get. It's not as if they sit on their arses all day sipping tea. Whether you consider charity work to be earning a living is another matter...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Beckham gets the market wage rate for the work he does, you can't argue with it without going against capitaliam <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    Define the royals "work" please and illustrate how it benefits anyone....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Earn it? Hmm yes, driving around and waving a bit really justifies being piad millions of public money doesn't it? <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> At least Posh and Becks- someone chooses to buy her single, they are not forced to shell out for it!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I quote Johnny Rotten I'm appalled that a jubilee, one of the major things you have about been British in respect to the rest of the world, is so fashionably ignored'

    Not even said in sarcasm <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>Define the royals "work" please and illustrate how it benefits anyone....
    </STRONG>
    Originally posted by PussyKatty:
    <STRONG>Earn it? Hmm yes, driving around and waving a bit really justifies being paid millions of public money doesn't it? <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>
    <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
    How about the money they attract to the country through tourism alone. The charities they support, and publicicse. Then there are the official engagements, all of which help to attract investment in Britain.

    I'm not saying that the Beckhams should have their wages capped, but I can't see how you can complain about the royals, whilst simulataneously accepting the Beckhams extravagant lifestyle.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the money they attract to the country through tourism alone
    Bollocks, tourists don't see them, they see the buildingd, jewels etc.
    which help to attract investment in Britain.
    Absolute bollocks, what serious company is going to invest in Britain because some toff in a crown had a little chat with them!

    The Beckhams are a stage above the royals, they earn their money through a wage dictated by the capitalist labour market. The royals are a product of the old feudal landed elite, they are an affront to modern civilization........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We've had his discussion over and over again.

    The royal family is ultimately financially positive. If money is your only reason to hate the royals, then you must accept that they bring more money into the country then they use.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    then you must accept that they bring more money into the country then they use.
    great argument, you can't prove anything so you tell me to "accept" it, no!

    Since when did you do any cost accounting concerning the royal family?

    The oppurtunity cost of the royal families assets must be quite enormous, far more than any imagined benefits they bring......
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