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Suicide is painless
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Or so the M*A*S*H theme says anyway...
So what do you think about this?
What is it that makes the rate higher for men? and do you believe that it is possible for Govt action to affect the rate?
So what do you think about this?
What is it that makes the rate higher for men? and do you believe that it is possible for Govt action to affect the rate?
0
Comments
I think key reasons for suicide are probably (they must have researched this) abuse at home and unemployment (it certainly is in Japan, but thats different) and I think the govt can affect those issues so maybe there is a chance for this scheme......
ROFLMAO....back to the padded room again..Good old nanny state.
If 5000 people a year wanna kill themselves then fucking well let them. Fix the problems in this country and the suicide rates will drop as a side effect.
Obviously id try and stop someone I knew personally, more out of selfish reasons than any other.
Would I try and stop someone if I were there? Dunno..Id prolly try to talk em out of it cos I wouldnt want someone topping themselves in front of me. Its ultimately their decision to make, not yours, mine or Blairs.
oooh err! <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I think one of the big problems is that terms such as 'Oooh I'm feeling soooo depressed' or 'I want to kill myself' are kinda flung around nowadays or hyped up by certain entertainment outputs, and they aren't really given much thought to what they really mean anymore.
'Reduce avaliability of suicidal methods?' Come on! If someone is that determined to kill themselves they will always find a way - this is some 'quick fix' thing which will not work
'Research into prevention?' I'm not even going to bother with this one <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Society as a whole needs to recognise that 1 suicide is 1 too many and it can happen to anyone. Men especially shouldn't have this macho 'I won't discuss my feelings with anyone' barrier on them, men and women alike can be very vunerable and they need emotional help : the only problem is getting them to get help in the first place (it took me months to get my bf to have councilling)
Isn't that a contradiction? Surely you must either entirely repect that persons judgement and not interfere or do whatever you can to stop them. If you think the latter then it isn't just the individual but society as a whole that must try and prevent these acts, hence govt intervention is justified......
Adding 'glutathione promoting factor' to paracetamol tablets instantly makes death by paracetamol overdose impossible.
More resources directed at mental health are going to help too - not more mental asylums, but realsitic and effective treatments.
Oh its definately a contradiction but thats what happens when things get personal. Im pretty strong in my beliefs but im not stupid enough to think they wouldnt change if they happened so close to me.
There are at least a dozen things that I could overdose on within 50 feet of me at this very moment. Im sitting in my own house. If someone wants to kill themselves then they will do so regardless of what you do to paracetemol. I could walk outside now and lob myself under a bus.
You cant possibly reduce suicide by getting rid of certain methods, you can only reduce it by tackling the problems that lead to depression and suicide.
What are they gonna do? Remove all sharp objects from peoples homes? Sharp sticks? Ropes? Bleach? Paint? Saws? Drills?
Hell, I could kill myself with a toothbrush if i really wanted.
Not the same thing...The state doesnt work on emotions. Id help a friend for purely selfish reasons. The state has no personal attachment to its citizens and therefore should not act emotionally.
That's not the point though. People do attempt suicide with paracetamol: it's cheap, you can get it anywhere, and people know it will kill them.
It was only an example, I didn't say it would prevent all suicides <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> </STRONG>
Hence my desire for more money and effort to be directed towards mental health (psychiatry as it was). People don't generally use those things to kill themselves though. Keep things in perspective here Baldy.
Not sure what you mean by state mate but to me it means the institutions of government. There is no personal attachment between me and the govt.
Yes but where does it stop? You take away one method of death, they use another.
I probably agree with that but thats not really what I meant. Psychiatry and mental healthcare are cure rather than prevention.
Yes but my point is that they will start using those things if you ban the things they currently use. You ban knives, paracetemol, sleeping pills etc then they will start on the paint, the household chemicals etc. If someone wants to kill themselves then they will find a way.
It would be hard for any living person to be able to relate to killing themselves <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> but you are right, that there is a difference between wanting to do it, and wanting to do it so much that you do.
I would imagine that there are many people on this site that have at some point wanted to kill themselves. You say it is a selfish act, but if someone has woken up and fallen asleep every day for several months or years wanting to end their life, there has to be a point where it is not selfish to do so. In fact, it must become selfish for other people to want them not to.
I would expect in response to that someone to say that you can not be considered selfish to want good people to stay alive, and I would agree. However, if those good people get no enjoyment from life, and don't see a time where they will, then why should they continue to live?[\i]
Thats not the way I see it, and I speak as someone who has considered suicide myself, as when someone is at that stage of depression, they are not usually capable of seeing issues clearly. But that is how a suicide victim is, in my opinion, likely to think.
I agree with Balddog that it is stupid to even think that it is possible to remove all methods of suicide. There is always a way.
The only way, as far as I can see, for the government to reduce suicide rates would be for them to cut out some of the problems of society that cause suicide. Unemployment, homelessness, abuse, ect...
Lots of people who attempt suicide on paracetamol live to regret the decision because it takes so long for the drug to have its effect. This leads to people in intensive care, with liver and kidney failure. Not a pretty sight, and something that is easily preventable.
These drugs weren't invented to allow people to kill themselves by overdosing, and it is simple to prevent.
Anyway, mental health is certainly not just about cure. The patient needs to display symptoms before a doctor knows what is wrong. The state arguably shouldn't interfere in the life of an asymptomatic patient. Therefore your prevention idea is very difficult to achieve in reality.
</STRONG>
Agreed. But those are long term problems.
There are short term things that can make a difference too.
[ 30-04-2002: Message edited by: Kentish ]
1. Reducing suicidal methods isnt viable, unless you pull down every bridge and stop running trains.
2. Men are more likely to actually succeed with suicide, but women are more likely to attempt it. Women tend to use weapons such as drugs overdoeses to commit suicide, which are less fatal, whilst men use things like guns, knives and bridges.
3. Maybe if the mental health services in this country were actually remotely good there would be less of a problem. Luckily Im a high priority case due to my age, but if I wasnt the waiting list for me for therapy would have been eighteen months. Im very lucky that the psychotherapy department has been vacancy-hunting and has found one for me.
4. If someone truly wants to commit suicide, they will. They wont tell anyone, they will just disappear and die. Most attempts are last desperate cries for help, after all other avenues have been closed, so the way to stop suicide would be to make the avenues wider. See point three.
5. I fucking give up with you eb, you are a twat. If anyone you know ends up feeling suicidal theyre fucked, whats your advice? "Stop being depressed, and youll be happy"? You are a stupid little wretch and I cant even be arsed trying to get you to understand mental illness now.