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Iraqi soldiers operate from a hospital.

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Under that reasoning it would make perfect sense to attack the US and seek to remove its present regime, which is considered by a majority not only of governments but of people in the world to be the biggest threat to world peace today. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you do, just be sure to eliminate Richard Perle and the rest of the duplicitous zionist members of the administration in the first wave, please.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Different time, different political context entirely. No comparison between the two.

    Maybe, but.......
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Avoid provocation by provoking first? that is flawed thinking which is understandable from morons like Bush and his short sighted, narrow minded advisors, but i would hope you would see how self defeating this policy is.

    Doesn't really fit in with that comment regardless.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Avoid provocation by provoking first?

    You just stated the Bush doctrain exactly Clandestine. That's basically what it is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not true actually ebb. In fact go check the Bush family history and see how the family started its financial empire in the first place with Prescott Bush's collusion by financing Nazi german industry.

    That of course is a whole different issue than this thread calls for but suffice to say, that the only angle of comparison is a highly tenuous "what if" scenario that has nothing to do with the underlying causes nor agendas for the current aggression.

    If anything is true its that this current misjudgement is one paving stone on the path toward eventual resumption of global hostilities which the UN was established to prevent. So noone is being done any real favours here, not in the long run.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine


    If anything is true its that this current misjudgement is one paving stone on the path toward eventual resumption of global hostilities which the UN was established to prevent. So noone is being done any real favours here, not in the long run.

    You can't say with any certainty what Saddam may of done in the future, neither can I, or Bush. So there is no right or wrong on the issue, but at least Bush, Blair etc...... have a wealth of intelligence to help them along, you can't dispute they're in a better position to judge than we are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A wealth of contrived "intelligence" you mean. Intelligence which was shown to be either the plagiarised offerings of a Cali universtiy student 12 years out of date, or else outright forgery. LOL!

    Please, its fairly obvious to the majority of the international community that not only was Saddam effectively contained, but that he has been reduced to roughly 1/5 of the military capability he had during PGW1, and even then he couldnt stand up to the forces arrayed against him.

    There is no credible indication that Saddam would ever be more than a third rate despot over a severely depleted nation. He couldnt even beat the Iranians at the height of his ability.

    You put far too much faith in leaders who have repeatedly shown themselves ill deserving of credibility.

    On the other hand we can be fairly certain that Bush (and perhaps Blair) will propagate even more unjustified aggression and destruction if they are not reigned in soon.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Major column" of Republican Guard moving south towards Najaf, reports CNN's Walter Rodgers, with 3rd Infantry
    • Rodgers: 1,000 armed vehicles in convoy, could reach U.S. troops tonight


    See, this is an example of where since Iraq is playing by the rules of the Geneva convention, we shouldn't either. We should use whatever we have to to destroy this column and screw what the world thinks.

    New news: they found vials of antidote for nerve gas in that hospital. Is Saddam planning to gas the Shiite muslims? By being careful regarding civilian casualties, we could be setting his enemies up for a horrible disaster.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mind explaining how you consider a column of troops moving in to fight an invading army is against the Geneva Convention???

    Youd best go back and learn what the GC is about pnj, it concerns prisoners of war. It does not deny the right of a sovereign nation to defend itself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My point is: based on how they've used hospitals, dressed as civilians and paraded POWs in front of cameras - which is in the convention - why haven't we blasted this colume to hell?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And we are just as guilty on numerous counts already mentioned pnj, so the US has no moral legitimacy to complain. Too bad people wont just lie down and allow us to conquer them without a fight, but then we wouldnt either so if you dont like what you see then take the Bush admin to task for having launched this attack in the first place.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The powdery sandstorm is giving them cover...that's why we can't bomb them. It's ending. That's why the Iraqis are moving at 60 mph.

    I just learned the French have been the most help regarding sharing intelligence on Al Qaeda. I always thought it was stupid for a government official, Rumsfield, to insult an entire country with "Old Europe". But now I think it was ungrateful on his part and really bad in terms of the Al Qaeda war.

    You'll never guess where the news regarding all of France's help came from today: the White House.

    I can't stand the inconsistent way we are friends with people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ??? Your own consistency is in question too. lol.

    You yourself have been slinging every kind of vitriole toward France and other European countries for months now pnj. What gives with you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm changing my mind. I've never seen a war before this one.

    Although, I'm still trusting the leaders and since we have troops over there I want them protected.

    I used "Old Europe" also to wing people out on the site...and it worked! :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The soldiers are trained to look out for themselves. our leaders sitting smugly and comfortably in Washington don't factor into that equation. Though if you are changing your mind then id suggest you start considering trusting the intentions of our leaders somewhat less than you have been up till now.

    The sooner we replace them with people who understand the long term dangers of this sort of gung ho militarism for the security of the US as well as the world, the safer we'll all be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you have time, read the link to the bush doctrine I posted. I'd like to see what you think of it....including if you see any merit to it or parts of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ill get around to it later or tomorrow. I need a break from all the debate for a bit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Have I got this right, it is acceptable to use hospitals and civillians as cover?

    Unless you are American of course, they would be [rightly] condemned for that.

    Of course, some people here want to condemn them for the loss of civillian life already, yet no condemnation for the Iraqi regime which is putting civillians in harms way...

    Just supports everything I've said before - it's easy to criticise the US, but none of the anti-war campaign are every remotely as vocal in their opposition to Iraq...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey MOK, I was looking for you. I posted a few things about Africa and they sank like a stone off the page. And I agree with what you say. Now that I've seen war for the first time though....I do wish it could have been solved diplomatically.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Hey MOK, I was looking for you. I posted a few things about Africa and they sank like a stone off the page. And I agree with what you say. Now that I've seen war for the first time though....I do wish it could have been solved diplomatically.

    Been unable to log on here for a while.

    Anyway, glad to see you abhor war too now. Many of us already knew that it was not a "good" thing, just have to accept that sometimes it is necessary.

    One thing that will never happen though, is both sides sticking to the "rules". Problem for the US is that if they break any, they are condemned. Other countries aren't...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One thing that will never happen though, is both sides sticking to the "rules". Problem for the US is that if they break any, they are condemned. Other countries aren't...

    amen brotha. :cool:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another problem is countries not even admitting to breaking any rules, or pretending to be above rules...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Amen brotha! ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :cool:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The point is that we know the Iraqis aren't going to be lovely and clean fighting isn't that the reason why we are at war with them? :rolleyes: )

    The fact is the US/UK are 'our' side and we have to hold them accountable, we can't hold Saddam's regime accountable nad they are doomed anyway........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given that we are invading their country with unprovoked and completely illegitimate force, I stand in awe (the only shock and awe i see in this whole affair) that people can summarily get up on their high horses (higher i suppose than the one's Bush and co are already on) and lambast them for fighting back any way they choose.

    If we werent there, we'd have no soldiers being paraded on Iraqi television or possibly executed. But no, the moral crusaders who lust for war (although the question remains as to whether such people are preared to re-start world wide conflict to remove EVERY last heinous dictator under the same pretenses) have the gall to be angry over losses that they should have been well aware would happen once we went in with guns blazing.

    We could have done this according to the collective will of the international community and mechanisms of international law, but Israel wants a zone of control all its own in the Middle East and couldnt resist teaming up with the corporate interests driving the Bush admin to put the entire nation of Iraq under its thumb post haste. The backlash of hatred and increased terrorism for this invasion will undoubtedly strip all the sentimental claims of purpose (liberty, democracy, etc..) from what we have done and demonstrate just how much less secure we have left ourselves thanks to the sheer arrogance of our leaders.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyone siding with Saddam is not worth interacting with on any level.

    Odd how you and Aladdin have said nothing about the 1,000 Shiites shot by Saddam's thugs today when they were trying to leave Basra.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Odd how Saddam seems to be the only heinous dictator who people like you and our duplicitous administration care about. Or do you welcome a world war to take out every last one of them?

    Just how many countries do you think we can invade before we are truly known as a new imperialistic monster? Do you think youll feel safer once the majority of the planet hates us utterly?

    Then again I doubt you have the resoning faculties to comprehend the logical conclusion to the policy of unilateral aggression you so readily champion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Very good post Clandestine.

    Any Iraqi soldiers who shoot civilians are worthless scum and should be tried for war crimes pnj. What makes you think I would not condemn such an act? If I haven't commented is because these are unconfirmed initial reports just in, and so far we've only heard that 1,000 people were shot at as they did a runner. There are no reports of casualties yet although if the reports are true there will sadly be a number of killed civilians.

    In any case, perhaps this "thousands of civilians massacred" story turns out to be made of the same stuff as the "entire 8,000-strong Iraqi division surrenders", "Saddam's right hand man Taziz deserts" or "massive chemical plant found" stories.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Odd how Saddam seems to be the only heinous dictator who people like you

    He's the first I've really read about...who is still alive. I'm shocked by what the world allowed. And don't bring up that Yugo guy...that's before my time.

    If Saddam were torturing White, Christian people...would the world have allowed it?

    *Strangers, don't email me...I'm White and Christian so I can ask...that's me on my posts.
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