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treat prisoners with respect!!!! ??

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
like the americans tortured and humiliated its prisoners in camp x-ray in the most apalling conditions! and admitted, contracting out the torture to other people in other places ...
what goes round comes round aye? don't show pow's on the telly? like we and america have been doing? men on their knees with a gun pointing at them, handcuffed?
there is no end to the hypocrisy!

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are so right....and I was really horrified to see pictures of a British soldier capturing an Iraqi who was holding one of the leaflets they dropped telling people to give up and surrender.
    The soldier spoke in English and asked the man to kneel down and turn around while he held a gun to his head!!! If I was that Iraqi i'd assume that i was going to be shot!!

    Kind of puts that stupid 'join the army and speak to the locals kindly' ad to shame !!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Iraqis should have not paraded the American PoWs on TV. However the Allies have been happily allowing TV crews to film surrendering Iraqi soldiers in various poses and conditions so they have very little ground for complaint.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny

    The soldier spoke in English and asked the man to kneel down and turn around while he held a gun to his head!!! If I was that Iraqi i'd assume that i was going to be shot!!

    And the cavalier attitude within the carnival atmosphere of a whole division surrendering - en masse - contributed to the death of ten Marines during a sham "surrender".

    Ever been there? Within the moment? If it twitches? It dies. Instantly.

    Naw...

    Your ignorance of reality is ever so more delicious than comprehending what it is really about.

    It is a war. It is NOT some video game moment.

    Get a fucking clue.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Both sides are parading their POWs, but I have a feeling that the Coalition will be treating theirs with far more respect, especially the ones who have surrendered.

    I know it is shocking to see POWs on TV, it makes me feel quite sick but it is propaganda being employed by both sides. However, many of the Iraqis gave themselves up voluntarily and they are therefore probably glad to be in allied hands - it stops them being executed by their own army for desertion. They will be treated far better in a POW camp than they would be if set free or similar.

    Byny - how else do you expect the Iraqi troops to be approached. You cannot approach someone who appears unarmed without protecting yourself, that could be very very dangerous indeed and lead to fake surrenders, like Globe pointed out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IMHO both sides (sorry, all three sides) are treating prisoners unfairly and inhumanely.

    The only difference is that Iraq are being open with their treatment, and the coalition are not.

    Included on the list of prisoners who's status is unknown are every-one in GatMo bay, the Al-quida head honcho who was arrested about a month ago and (most appaulingly) his 2 sons.

    At least the Iraqi's are only capturing soldiers, not their families.
    At least the iraqi's aren't torturing the prisoners they have captured.
    At least the iraqi's are having the decency to call the people they are capturing PoW's.


    I'm not saying they are behaving well, but I don't think we can point fingers at them and say "how barbaric" when we are on the same side as the americans, who have been doing worse for quite some time.

    Or, for the traditionalists : Let he who is whithout sin be the one to cast the first stone.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Americans are not torturing inmates at Guantanemo. The left Democrats in the American Congress are watching like hawks for it.

    Journalists taking pictures is quite different from government staged photo ops. I suppose the coalition could prevent coverage but then the media would cry foul.

    Damned if you do and damned if you don't. All things being equal I would rather be a prisoner of the American or British Army as opposed to the Iraqis. Wouldn't you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you horrified because you watched the soldiers capture?Then your tv didnt show the dead women and children of the bridge attack on Saturday.75 were there dead and they WERE NOT soldiers......They were women and CHILDREN!!!!!!Wait to see this and then discuss about horrify.....:(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Are you horrified because you watched the soldiers capture?Then your tv didnt show the dead women and children of the bridge attack on Saturday.75 were there dead and they WERE NOT soldiers......They were women and CHILDREN!!!!!!Wait to see this and then discuss about horrify.....


    Yup, thats war. And here is some shocking news, it's not just women and children that can be innocent victims, men can be part of this catagory as well.

    I didn't say the US tortured the POW's... or the prisoners at gitMo bay.
    The prisoners at gitmo are not prisoners of war, OR prisoners that have committed a crime, they are just prisoners because the US doesn't like them. This is not torture, merely very inhumanitarian, not to mention incredibally unfair.
    The people that are being tortured (or at least, when Amnesty asked "are they being tortured?" they didn't get an answer) are the Al-quieda suspects they have been arresting.
    Oh, and they are also not saying what they are doing or how they are treating the suspects children.

    How many civilised countries are not only happy to arrest a person for a crime and make them disapear, but also for their children to do the same. Could they be getting used as part of their parents torture? Your guess is as good as mine.



    Damned if you do and damned if you don't. All things being equal I would rather be a prisoner of the American or British Army as opposed to the Iraqis. Wouldn't you?


    Well, yes i would. But I think that just has to do with culture... I'm guessing most iraqi's would rather be "captured" by the iraqi forces than the US, for the same reasons.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by cokephreak

    Are you horrified because you watched the soldiers capture?Then your tv didnt show the dead women and children of the bridge attack on Saturday.75 were there dead and they WERE NOT soldiers......They were women and CHILDREN!!!!!!Wait to see this and then discuss about horrify.....






    Damned if you do and damned if you don't. All things being equal I would rather be a prisoner of the American or British Army as opposed to the Iraqis. Wouldn't you?


    Well, yes i would. But I think that just has to do with culture... I'm guessing most iraqi's would rather be "captured" by the iraqi forces than the US, for the same reasons.

    So this is the whole point?If you were a prisoner,in which side youd prefer to be,American or Iraqi?...Im afraid not.....the whole point is not to stay in issueslike that but to try preventing further horrifying things to come along...Dont ask me how....I just dont know...this world is tooo mad for me to find logical answers....:(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's a difference between the inmates in Cuba and the Americans in Iraq.
    The Americans were engineers first and soldiers last.
    The inmates in Cuba were terrorists, not part of any army apart from one that sees fit to murder as many civilians as possible.
    The engineers were there to clear mines, lay bridges and repair vehicles as well as support an army that is doing its best to minimise civilian casualties.
    The terrorists were there to cause fear and kill as many as possible.

    As for the morality of the war, tactical doctrine for street fighting during a war is to level the city with artillery and aircraft before sending in troops.
    In an effort to leave the Iraqis with as much infrastructure as possible they aren't doing that.
    I personally feel it is going to get to a point where the Americans say fuck it and start dropping daisy cutters on the cities.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And would thereby prove concretely the criminality of the small band of ultra right wing elitests running the whole show in Washington and leave us in political isolation almost overnight.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere
    There's a difference between the inmates in Cuba and the Americans in Iraq.
    The Americans were engineers first and soldiers last.
    The inmates in Cuba were terrorists, not part of any army apart from one that sees fit to murder as many civilians as possible.
    whowhere, you've had your head up your brown paper bag to long mate! most of the prisoners in cuba turned out to be farmers. peasants forced to carry a rifle and fight or be shot.
    even the mentaly handicapped! very few terrorists were sent there. some of the prisoners didn't even know that new york had been attacked.
    a lot of iraqi people along with arabs from around the region see america as THE terrorist. so playing your game means it's ok to torture brirish and american troops.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, Whowhere, thats the morality of combat- an entirely different thing. This war is immoral because it has no legitimate mandate, or, indeed, a legitimate reason.

    But unfortunately PoWs are an inevitable part of war. The Iraqis were quite within their rights to shoot the American soldiers if the American soldiers did not behave, and the parading on TV was for the Iraqi nations benefit, not ours. We parade their PoWs, we psychologically torture their PoWs (now THAT has been admitted) so what goes around comes around. I have sympathy for the poor cannon fodder that got sent in so an illegitmate president (and I dont mean Hussein) can conduct an illegitimate war, but beyond that I have none.

    Oh, and byny, its not pretty but its what has to happen in war. You ahve to take no chances with PoWs, cos they ahve a habit of not surrendering but blowing your head off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere
    There's a difference between the inmates in Cuba and the Americans in Iraq.
    The Americans were engineers first and soldiers last.
    The inmates in Cuba were terrorists,

    And yet they have not been charged with any crime but are kept in inhumane conditions that break the Geneva convention.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh but byny, dont you realise that such rules are only valid when applied to US prisoners, not to prisoners of the US.

    Just another example of the "do as we say not as we do" mentality.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Here is a very good article about the Guantanamo and Iraqi prisoners of war and the double standards displayed by the US concerning the Geneva Convention.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the daily mirror has picked up on this subject today, not seen any other papers yet. whoever tried telling me that america hasn't tortured these guys needs to read the mirror today and the guardian now and again to keep up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry aladin i'm half asleep today, just read your link.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The head of the American hypocratic iceberg.
    I think it is about time that the rest of the world started to confront America. It believes that it is the biggest bully in the playground and can do whatever it wants, and unfortunatly, it's right. Until the rest of the world starts grouping together to put pressure on America, it will stay that way too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My suspicion is that the only way the rest of the international community could force Washington to amend its behaviour would be a systemic withdrawl of all investments in the US and perhaps a transfer of those investments to Europe.

    Without the global investment there wouldnt be sufficient public funds to keep feeding the war machine and by necessity we'd have to scale down considerably and start behaving as an equal rather than the kind of militant arrogance we see being put forth currently.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Attarrii
    So this is the whole point?If you were a prisoner,in which side youd prefer to be,American or Iraqi?...Im afraid not.....the whole point is not to stay in issueslike that but to try preventing further horrifying things to come along...Dont ask me how....I just dont know...this world is tooo mad for me to find logical answers...



    Just so you know, the part of my post you quoted were mostly me quoting other people, with a small part on the end which was my response to the question of which side would you rather be a prisoner of.

    In response to what you say, logical answers are the only ones, but the trick is to find some logic that every-body agree's with and then apply that logic to get an answer.
    Unfortunatly no-one is willing to do this as the politics get in the way. :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good article about US economy Clan (Its from the Guardian again:rolleyes: )

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,922217,00.html
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