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Youre deluding yourself if you honestly believe that Blair will drop the road tax or reduce petrol costs. He will find a way to keep both where they are and make money from this proposal.
Ah well if we dont lose anything then I take it you would support paying 60,70,80% tax?
No. People concerned with things like that have something to hide. I have nothing to hide so it is not a concern of mine.
What exactly is it that those people concerned with it have to hide?
On my way home today the first bus wouldn't let us on, the second bus drove past and didn't stop no matter how much we jumped up and down; the third bus let us on but I had to stand next to a mad who felt the need to constantly shake the rain off himself like a bloody labradore <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Buses are crap and trains are worse, no wonder we're all in our cars.
It's a good argument the 'only those with something to hide' one. And I would have agreed with you a couple of years ago. Certainly those with something to hide will not welcome such a system.
BUT, I have nothing to hide - I am not an active criminal, I don't drive recklessly, and I don't kidnap people on lonely country lanes. Do I want my car traced? No.
There's a principle at stake here: <STRONG>innocent until proven guilty</STRONG>. We are truly becoming a police state/nanny state if we tolerate such surveillance over our private lives. If I happen to have driven past a crime scene at a particular time I don't want to police to trace me via the movements of my car - not only is the evidence useless since a car's owner is not the driver, but I have done nothing wrong. I would like them to have some sort of conclusive evidence before they start arresting people.
You may disagree, and say that the police should have access to all our personal details just in case we fit a particular MO, especially because of your father's influence - but I am not going to sit back and let this through. Speed cameras are one thing, but providing the evidence yourself from a box on the dashboard is quite another.
</STRONG>
Nope, good old fashioned cynicism I'm afraid <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">. As if the government is going to lower fuel duty <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Tax? Fair point: you do pay the same yet use the roads less. But £105 a year? Not worth getting in a huff about is it? What does your insurance cost you <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">?
Petrol? Bollocks - you pay for what you use.
Insurance? Equally bollocks - you can specify your annual mileage on the policy to get a cheaper quote.
If everyone thought like you do about driving, about healthcare then we'd be in trouble - "I only want to pay for what I use" - society doesn't work like that - we subsidise each other and take what we need when we need it. It's as true for the road tax as income tax.
I don't drive through red lights or drive on the pavement, I am a law abiding citizen. What's your point? I didn't speed as a learner, I actively try not to speed whilst driving too, but you are constantly fighting against the pressures of the traffic if you choose to obey the limits. And speeding is not the only factor in accidents <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">.
</STRONG>
As I said, I'll give you a month - come back once you've passed and make the same claim again <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">.
[ 26-02-2002: Message edited by: Kentish ]
YOU are a criminal!!!!! If you did that on my beat I would put you in the pokey.
My point is I actively dont break the Law while using the roads and I wont break the law when i pass my test.
Balddog ----
ME "Ho Ho - people who want to be allowed to break the law always use these kinds of arguments. ie 'I need to go faster to get up the hill so I'm bound to go over the speed limit'
It just doesn't cut it. If you know your speedometer isn't accurate then you should know to go a little bit under what your speedometer is saying! TRUE?"
YOU
"I told you to sod off because you accused me of being a criminal or wanting to be. If you are arrogant and offensive enough to brand me a criminal because I dont put my trust in a massively inaccurate speedo then I have the right to tell you to sod off
Again, ive never untentionally broken any speeding law, or any other traffic laws for that matter. The reason I dont feel you can comment on this as well as others is because you have very little experience in driving..Maybe 6 months on local roads? Sorry but you arent as qualified to comment on driving conditions in this country as someone who has driven here for years and years. "
Quote Balddog.
What I said wasn't meant to be accusing you - Perhaps I should have used the word ONE instead of YOU. I meant to point out that people (my boyfriend included) do make such a fuss about fines without remembering the fine came directly from the thing they did wrong.
The fact is that if you do speed then you are breaking the law. Admitedly you are not a criminal until yoou are convicted of the offence.
I have absolutely every right to comment because I use the roads everyday and I have more than 10 years experience of City cycling. I'm afraid it is very rude of you to suggest I cannot comment on other roadusers speeding, as it often effects me while I use the road. Also - a learner has as much right to comment on road LAWS as anyone else and that includes pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists.
Again you want me to not be allowed to take part in this discussion because you don't like / agree with what I am saying..again you have found a loophole (ie I have no stake cos I have not passed) to try and get me out of the discussion. You are becoming a bit of a bully.
I know that Kentish will say anything to wind up anyone (Specially those younger than him) so I can basically brush aside his comments because the repetitiveness is just what I expect but your methods of bullying me off the subject cannot be ignored.
I have an opinion - it is based upon the laws of the road. Yours are based upon what you think is fair or not fair. they are two different things.
[ 27-02-2002: Message edited by: byny ]
I suggest you go and reread the abortion threads to see how your experiences gave you more credibility in those discussions.
Sorry but 10 years or even 50 years of cycling experience does not mean that you know what its like to drive. Can I ask how often and how long youve spent driving round the M25 on a busy day? How many 5 hour long trips up the A1 have you taken? How many 5 hour long traffic jams have you been in? How many wide load trucks have you been cut off by while trapped against the barrier of a dual carrigeway? When youve experienced the above then you will be able to comment in your oh so self righteous way on these issues.
Ive also never said you cant comment..I said you cant comment in anything but a theoretical point of view.
You quoted my post directly and then said "people who want to be allowed to break the law always use these kinds of arguments"..That sounds a hell of a lot like you saying I want to break the law.
Maybe if you didnt enter the discussion with such a self righteous and offensive attitude then you wouldnt get people annoyed at your comments.
Yes, but isn't that the point of the new government scheme? So people won't spend 5 hours waiting in a traffic jam? If there is no traffic because everyone uses a different way of getting to work then there are no jams.
It drives me mad that my 3 mile direct bus journey takes 45 minutes because so many people insist on driving into the centre of town. All the rich bastards from the countryside who drive in, in their range rovers to take their damn kids to school, when there is a perfectly good bus service. When there is no traffic my bus journey takes 10 minutes. Now you can see why people who insist on driving into city centres should be penalised for it.
What do you think to the plans for a £5 toll to enter London?
If you can find me another way of getting from one end of the country to the other instead of the motorways and that doesnt add hours to my trip then ill gladly use it. You cant so im stuck with motorways. If I use the trains to get to Newcastle it takes twice as much as if I were to drive and quite often more than the 4 hours it takes to drive.
All I want to see is heavy restriction on who can and cannot enter a city centre.
Would you support a pedestrianised Nottingham town centre with maybe trams or buses as the public transport system?
OK - I accept you were not intending to Bully me - perhaps I was a little too sensitive.
I really am surprised you believe I was targeting you with my comments, as I tried to explain I wasn't meaning you but speeding people in general. Please don't take it personally - it's not an attack.
My view is that people who speed over and over again use arguments to excuse their lawbreaking and these arguments generally would not stand up in court.
I didn't just enter the discussion willy-nilly but tried to widen the discussion after the question you asked about speeding surveilance. My view may appear self-righteous to you but I'm afraid it is based upon the law and so therefore I am right to say that people who speed are lawbreakers and should be penalised for it.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the opinion that a learner driver or other road user (Pedestrian, cyclist) with views on speeding traffic does not hold as much weight as someone who has been driving longer. Unfortunately there are a lot of drivers on the road who believe they are the only people who deserve to be there and who have to be at the front of the line for everything regardless of the law or safety.
I guess some people have that kind of personality where the only way they can deal with the arrogant actions of other drivers is to behave as badly themselves. I guess it's all a power struggle.
Thankfully I know I am more chilled out than that and I don't get hassled by jams and driving-bullies.
I can't go on the motorway - I'm a learner. but I can use the roads, legally and lawfully and thats just what I intend to do.
Perhaps you could let me know exactly when I and other inexperienced road users will be entitled to comment on the situation? Is there an exact date after passing that I should be posting on this subject again?
My speedometer is 11 years old - do you know how I can tell if it is wrong? Perhaps I am actually driving at 20 miles an hour when the needle is on 25 - what if I am going too slow!!!! How will I know - perhaps I should speed up a bit 'cos you can get done for going too slow can't you? But then maybe I can explain about the speedometer thing?
I may not know what it is like to drive (Although I think I am gaining more and more experience) but I do know the law and if I break it I won't be moaning about the fine. Thats what I object to. The moaning.
Like I said - if you can't pay the fine don't do the crime.
How come my opinion id 'oh so self-righteous' and yours isn't?
I'm basing my opinion on the law so I have the law on my side.
I try to make sure all my posts are balanced and fair. I do not intentionally repeat myself unless I think my point was ignored or 'brushed aside' - in this case you couldn't comment on speeding because you have only been driving for what? a week? So I again asked you to make the same comments after passing, and I stand by that.
Do I wind people up? Perhaps, but only as part of an interesting and testing discussion, not just for fun, or because I am a bully if that's what you were suggesting? I wouldn't wind someone up for the sake of it - but sometimes it is important to make people think through what they have said just to make sure that is really what they think - and I also try to show the other side of the argument where necessary as much to play devils advocate as anything else.
And I think I am very nice to the newbies. Especially those with a decent brain on them, those that can add things to the discussions.
Do you want to explain your comments any further?
Ok then, sorry for snapping.
As am I...Never once have I reacted verbally or with signals <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> to any bad drivers. But as most drivers would know, if a 20 something ton truck veers into your lane and theres someone behind you then theres no option but to die horribly or speed up...It happens a lot more regularly than you would think. I guess my point is that its all well and good saying you wont speed but there are a million factors that can force you to break the speed limit. Factors over which you have no control. Thats why I originally said that I never intentionally break any traffic laws.
I think that was my point.
Again, you can comment on whatever you want. I cant tell you not to nor would I. Your opinion just doesnt carry as much weight as someone whos been driving for years.
The speedometer thing seems to have been carried away here. Speedos are never 100% accurate using the human eye. They are always a few mph out in whichever direction. Now while a human plod would give you the discretionary extra 7mph at 30, a satellite probably wouldnt, you go 1 mph over 30 and thats a fine on your CC.
Because you came on here annoucing how our arguments were tantamount to criminal and that you would never in a million years, commit a speeding offence, no matter what the situation.
I didn't mean to imply you were a bully at all - I did ask Balddog to stop bullying me off the board but we seem to have sorted that one out.
Balddog - No really - I wasn't ever telling you youe were a criminal - thought we'd sorted that out.
A bit confused because my Theory test book says completely the opposite to your suggestion about a lorry pulling out in front of you. I was under the impression that the best thing to do is reduce your speed and not react by speeding up.
Anyway - I guess that soon I will have the experience and authority to stick to the law, for now though I think I might just break all the rules...will it help me pass my test?
Ever tried slamming your brakes on at 70mph? You cant just slow down gently when something swerves into your path at 70mph with people behind you, thats how pileups start. Dunno what the theory test would have done but if I hadnt of dropped to 4th gear and sped up to 85mph then that truck would have slammed me into the centre barrier.
I reacted like I did to the 'dodgy speedo' thing because it smacked of the kind of comments I hear from my boyfriend and others who say ...."but I want to go fast and I'm not prepared to accept the consequences when I do".
I concede that there must be a small amount of situations where people have to go faster to save lives (And their own) but that shouldn't be used as an excuse to speed when a driver just wants to go fast to beat the rest of the traffic.
Thank you.
<IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> does one exist? *swoon*
A trip to work takes 20 mins in a car now takes 30-45 mins by bus. at £4 aday it aint cheaper than car over a year.
I think the main prob. with the local transport is the operators assume you want to travel to town centre.
I need to go via town centre, change buses to get to where I want to go.
even longer trips like National express have the same idea.
When I when to see my old friend I had to go from Oxford via london to get to Norwich.
I'd have to do the same if I'd want to go to brighton aswell (I phoned just to find out)
The train companies don't have enough rolling stock to simply 'add a couple more carriages', quite apart from the fact that they wouldn't fit onto the platform of most stations and it violates the SRAs health and safety restrictions.
The idea of getting a train cross-country is a good one - apart from the dire state our countrys rail tracks are in. There are constant engineering works going on, and (as someone who gets the train every day during rush hour) i know that they are always delayed, by anything up to 18 minutes, as my train was this morning. It's an intersting theory, but lacks effectiveness or planning, and as soon as i turn 17, i will be driving.
Eb and I are very lucky, we have a good bus service. They have introduced various things to keep the bus moving, they don't give change, they don't stop at the last minute because some tosser forgets to stick his arm out, and they don't stop for people running to catch one, because, get this (the people running don't) there will be another in 10 minutes.
I think the country would have a decent public transport net if NCT took it all over. Especially Arriva, CRAP!
As for trains, we are served by Midland Mainline, and they have an excellent record. Whenever I went to see my ex, the journey would be great until I had to get on a train operated by Arriva or Northwest. BASTARDS.