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The Barcelona anti-capitalist demonstrations were a great success!
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The protests at the European Union Summit in Barcelona on 14-16 March this year were incredibly significant. The anti-capitalist march was uncountable. This despite the 220 coaches blocked at the French / Spanish border and the closure of the Italian / French border to coaches and trains of protesters.
Like all previous large scale anti-capitalist protests, Barcelona was made up of a very local crowd. It seemed like the whole of Catalonia was there. For the first time on such protests in Europe, the anti-capitalist demo was bigger than the Trade Union one, by four or five times.
Thursday
The trade union demo, lively, multinational and colourful. Large blocks from Spain, France, Italy and elsewhere. It was strongly anti-privatisation and (to a larger extent than Brussels) anti-war. Estimates of the attendance were 100,000 to 120,000.
Friday
Diverse actions across the city. They included a Lobby Hunt in the morning, over a thousand toured the city stopping at various venues for talks and street theatre about the lobbying activities and crimes of multinational corporations. A Transgenics Food demo rallied four or five thousand against GM food in a brilliantly colourful and creative protest. A Zapatista mural was painted, Sardines and vegetarian food distributed for protesters by CGT union activists. A circus against Global Imperialism went off at the MACBA, a gathering on the Ramblas proclaimed "Capitalism cannot be Transformed, Only Destroyed". Film showings at the Contemporary Cultural Centre and a vigil for the memory of Carlo Guiliani, protester murdered by Carabineri in Genoa last July. Meetings and discussion seemed to be happening across the city, and a steady influx of protesters throughout the day.
Police attacked the 700-800 on the Ramblas (Mars Attacks) protest and a small fracas ensued, but nothing on the scale of Genoa.
The atmosphere on the streets was incredible, exciting and empowering. News of the police attacks on the Ramblas against the Mars attacks protest spread, but for those not on the direct receiving end of the police batons, not a feeling of fear, rather disgust and determination. Meetings went on into the late evening and the spokescouncil described the days events and plans for tomorrow.
Saturday
Began with a huge counter-conference. Workshops on issues such as education, privatisation, and the War attracted thousands of people (the GR speakers found an excellent reception for their thoughts). The plenary session of the conference had to be relayed out into the court yard of the CCCB with a total in excess of 3000 people hearing the talks.
It was at this time we started contemplating the size of the demo for later that day. A difficult task, however, as you normally get an impression of the mobilisation by the amount of transport booked and running. Barcelona, however, saw most people arrive with their local bus and tube passes. No one we spoke to even mentioned a figure close to a quarter of a million, let alone 500,000.
We got to our starting place in the protest, just on the corner of Placa Catalunya, and waited, and waited and waited. Why aren't we moving? Oh, probably so many people makes it slow. Word got through that there were 50,000 - very impressive. A few minutes later we discovered that figure was for our block of the demo. Eventually we moved, half an hour after hearing the front of the demo had passed the final destination and was on it's way up to MontJuic for the Manu Chao gig.
No shops had closed for the protests, the pavements were full of applauding and sympathetic people. People gathered on their balconies and climbed on to scaffolding to witness the gigantic procession. Shouts against the war and for people not profit (in Catalan, of course) echoed through the city. People of every age were there, and significantly around 30,000 trade unionists with banners and flags attended. There was massively broad support for the demo, the issues of a proposed Dam in the area, the threats of privatisation hanging over many services in Barcelona and throughtout Spain had strengthened support for the day. But most of all, the feeling of opposition to Azner, the Spanish Prime Minister and thrid part of the Blair-Berlusconi-Azner axis of evil in Europe.
The numbers? Safely over 300,000, maybe 500,000 who can tell?
The violence? Le Journal Du Dimanche, a French Sunday we picked up on the way home had it about right. Headlined "The 300,000 of Barcelona" It listed the issues and the groups participating and said (forgive my translation) "A peaceful and festive protest, it was marred by a few isolated incidents by unruly elements, said the law authorities". The police could not attack such a crowd full on, they waited until much later when the likes of us were finishing the march, they attacked indiscriminately with rubber bullets and tear gas, but Genoa it was not.
The movement has stamped it's authority again, The axis of evil must be quaking - in Rome this Saturday a million are expected to march against Berlusconi. Here in the UK 51% oppose the threatened war on Iraq (the first time a war could start with majority opposition) and unrest is bubbling up. In Spain? they couldn't escape it. The Interior Minister thought he'd escaped the whole protest by going to watch Barcelona play a game of football with real Madrid, only to witness the game get interupted by anti-capitalist protesters handcuffing themselves to the goal posts with slogans painted on their backs.
This show that the anti-capitalist movement is winning. Forward to communism and peoples control of the world!
Like all previous large scale anti-capitalist protests, Barcelona was made up of a very local crowd. It seemed like the whole of Catalonia was there. For the first time on such protests in Europe, the anti-capitalist demo was bigger than the Trade Union one, by four or five times.
Thursday
The trade union demo, lively, multinational and colourful. Large blocks from Spain, France, Italy and elsewhere. It was strongly anti-privatisation and (to a larger extent than Brussels) anti-war. Estimates of the attendance were 100,000 to 120,000.
Friday
Diverse actions across the city. They included a Lobby Hunt in the morning, over a thousand toured the city stopping at various venues for talks and street theatre about the lobbying activities and crimes of multinational corporations. A Transgenics Food demo rallied four or five thousand against GM food in a brilliantly colourful and creative protest. A Zapatista mural was painted, Sardines and vegetarian food distributed for protesters by CGT union activists. A circus against Global Imperialism went off at the MACBA, a gathering on the Ramblas proclaimed "Capitalism cannot be Transformed, Only Destroyed". Film showings at the Contemporary Cultural Centre and a vigil for the memory of Carlo Guiliani, protester murdered by Carabineri in Genoa last July. Meetings and discussion seemed to be happening across the city, and a steady influx of protesters throughout the day.
Police attacked the 700-800 on the Ramblas (Mars Attacks) protest and a small fracas ensued, but nothing on the scale of Genoa.
The atmosphere on the streets was incredible, exciting and empowering. News of the police attacks on the Ramblas against the Mars attacks protest spread, but for those not on the direct receiving end of the police batons, not a feeling of fear, rather disgust and determination. Meetings went on into the late evening and the spokescouncil described the days events and plans for tomorrow.
Saturday
Began with a huge counter-conference. Workshops on issues such as education, privatisation, and the War attracted thousands of people (the GR speakers found an excellent reception for their thoughts). The plenary session of the conference had to be relayed out into the court yard of the CCCB with a total in excess of 3000 people hearing the talks.
It was at this time we started contemplating the size of the demo for later that day. A difficult task, however, as you normally get an impression of the mobilisation by the amount of transport booked and running. Barcelona, however, saw most people arrive with their local bus and tube passes. No one we spoke to even mentioned a figure close to a quarter of a million, let alone 500,000.
We got to our starting place in the protest, just on the corner of Placa Catalunya, and waited, and waited and waited. Why aren't we moving? Oh, probably so many people makes it slow. Word got through that there were 50,000 - very impressive. A few minutes later we discovered that figure was for our block of the demo. Eventually we moved, half an hour after hearing the front of the demo had passed the final destination and was on it's way up to MontJuic for the Manu Chao gig.
No shops had closed for the protests, the pavements were full of applauding and sympathetic people. People gathered on their balconies and climbed on to scaffolding to witness the gigantic procession. Shouts against the war and for people not profit (in Catalan, of course) echoed through the city. People of every age were there, and significantly around 30,000 trade unionists with banners and flags attended. There was massively broad support for the demo, the issues of a proposed Dam in the area, the threats of privatisation hanging over many services in Barcelona and throughtout Spain had strengthened support for the day. But most of all, the feeling of opposition to Azner, the Spanish Prime Minister and thrid part of the Blair-Berlusconi-Azner axis of evil in Europe.
The numbers? Safely over 300,000, maybe 500,000 who can tell?
The violence? Le Journal Du Dimanche, a French Sunday we picked up on the way home had it about right. Headlined "The 300,000 of Barcelona" It listed the issues and the groups participating and said (forgive my translation) "A peaceful and festive protest, it was marred by a few isolated incidents by unruly elements, said the law authorities". The police could not attack such a crowd full on, they waited until much later when the likes of us were finishing the march, they attacked indiscriminately with rubber bullets and tear gas, but Genoa it was not.
The movement has stamped it's authority again, The axis of evil must be quaking - in Rome this Saturday a million are expected to march against Berlusconi. Here in the UK 51% oppose the threatened war on Iraq (the first time a war could start with majority opposition) and unrest is bubbling up. In Spain? they couldn't escape it. The Interior Minister thought he'd escaped the whole protest by going to watch Barcelona play a game of football with real Madrid, only to witness the game get interupted by anti-capitalist protesters handcuffing themselves to the goal posts with slogans painted on their backs.
This show that the anti-capitalist movement is winning. Forward to communism and peoples control of the world!
0
Comments
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, yeah maybe in the poor shitty European countries. That bit just made me want to cry.
Thought you'd left us.
Still spouting shit I see...
8.00am - got into my nike jogging bottoms and adidas trainers and the gang and I went to Starbucks for breakfast
12.00 - went round shouting and stuff
5.00pm - after a hard days work the gang and I had dinner in Mcdonalds and still had time to buy ourselves some funky Gap clothing
<IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> cheeky! <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
[ 24-03-2002: Message edited by: stealgate ]
*Waves of apathy overtake thesite*
LMFAO
well lets hope the police make you look very very stupid again <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
your demo's are not a success, they are nothing more than a mild itch on the body of capitalism <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Of course, maybe a lot of the people here, judging by their reaction to this, don't want third world debt relief, or environmental issues sorted out, or a reduction in the rich-poor divide, or decent third world aid. Most of the issues related to protests like the MayDay ones are tackled in a peaceful way by the majority of demonstratoers, and any media coverage is twisted to make it look like an unruly mob hitting the streets.
I support them, and wish them luck, but after last year I am not going back.
I have to say that I find that a very ignorant comment.
If it wasn't for a load of bullshit media scaremongering, that protest wouldn't have been a lot better recieved by the general public, and probably better handled by the police. As it is the plice abused the power which the public entrust them with, broke countless laws themselves, provoked most of the violence in Oxford Circus, and proved themselves to have no ability to think and ascess such a situation. It was the worst piece of police work I have ever encountered in this country, and I hope they aren't allowed to get away with it again.
Not at all. I believe that those are very important issues. I just think that this protest does little to address those issues. All you do is alienate the people you are trying to impress. By cocking a snoop at the esablishment and middle england, when these are the people who would need to MAKE the change, you actually achieve the opposite effect to the one you are after....
Look at the comments advertising these events and you get the impression taht this is a social thing, just as much as it is political protest. I guess what really makes me laugh are those, like Steelgate, who use the symbols of capitalism and the 'freedoms' granted by its system to protest against it...we all know how free communist states are...g
Besides, marching along a road telling everyone that poverty is wrong really doesn't achieve very much. We know that.
Take a look at most of Steelgate (and other 'socialist' posters on this forum) and all you will see is people saying what is wrong, but very little constructive comment.
You mustn't bomb Iraq, we mustn't allow oppressive regimes etc but little comment on what alternative option there are, unless you consider the 'do nothing' option. What can realistically be done to stop these problems?
Steelgates (and I have seen others take similar approaches) answer is that the US is to blame for everything and that communism is the only solution. Plainly that is complete shite. That system would never work becuase it demands that the entire world population embrace it, and that will NEVER happen...
BUT the main problem is that most communists are little more than anarchic militant thugs who hold the country to ransom through greed. Look at the train strikes...my local train company is ARRIVA, and the RMT have gone on strike cos some of their staff (conductors) didnt get the same pay rise as drivers. The fact theyre not as important is irrelevant. Iyt was the same iwth theminer...stop coal production to get gross pay increases, then wonder why comapines buy foreign coal shutting all the British pits down.
Trade Unions and socialists are just out to grab what they can, 'wealth redistribution' is just an excuse to steal money from hard-workers and give it to dole-queue bums.
But its all teh police and the USs fault, isnt it?
Most communists are anarchic? Surely a contridiction in terms. Personally, I think that anarchy is a much better stratagy than communism. Oh, and a true anarchist can't be a militant thug.
The protests aren't about 'cocking a snoop' at the establishment. Last year, in the build up to MayDay, all you would see in the papers was scraemongering, talking about london and the plice preparing for a full scale riot from hordes of crazy thugs hell bent on breaking everything.
That is what alienates the general public, and that is not what the protest is about. There was no violence last May until the police had entrapped people in Oxford Circus for several hours (in the rain and cold with no food, water, toilets ect). It was then that violence broke out, and I'm not surprised it did. The majority of the protestors at these events go because they want to have their voice heard. The right to free speech - which was infringed upon last year, and probably will be this year.
Mindless, alot of people went to that protest intent on violence, they were organised and dangerous - the police had every right to treat some as they did, o.k some perhaps the majority were there on peaceful terms, but the police can hardly afford to ask each person nicely whether they are in attendence for peaceful or violent intentions. Those wombles marched around like some sort of army and to be honest a few bullets in the knees wouldn't of gone amiss. The police won the day pure and simple, very little violence occured, very few injuries and very few arrests, in fact all that was achieved was for the cause of the demonstators to become associated with violence and nutters. I spent nearly the whole day watching on t.v and there was a running battle between wombles etc.. and police, it was like cat and mouse. There is no way if the police hadn't of been around it would of been peaceful and the public knew it.
Come mayday this year once again demonstartors will be shipped in after there training in foreign camps, game boards will appear on the net depicting 'the battle plan' and hopefully once again the police will win <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
to claim the police were the cause of last years troubles is plain ridiclous.
[ 25-03-2002: Message edited by: eb ]
But the SOP of lies and distortions which are their prime tactic, being played to the intellectual midgets who would rather believe in their delusion of elitest stature...
Anyone who shows up for a riot and is surprised when it occurs is on the path of getting Darwin'ed out of existence.
Only a complete idiot would think these "demostrations" are planned as "peaceful assembley's". Hardly any mileage out of THAT, is there? Only fool would actually show up within that delusional hope...
Exactly WHICH country has been taken over by a communist junta "PEACEFULLY"? Are you really so ignorant of history?
"Peaceful protest" is not in their handbook. Violent confrontation is on the front page.
Do you have a "right to riot with immunity from responsibility for consequences" over there? Is "free speech" defined as "pillaging"?
[ 25-03-2002: Message edited by: Thanatos...AGAIN ]
That is exactly what they are about. Just who do you think makes up the 'establishment'?
Okay the press went a little over the top with their warning, and yet once again on the day there was violence. Do you honestly believe that if there were no police officers on duty that day that there would have been a total lack of any violent action?
People, like the self styled wombles, are hell bent on destruction - their very actions prove that...
<STRONG>[quoteThat is what alienates the general public, and that is not what the protest is about. There was no violence last May until the police had entrapped people in Oxford Circus for several hours (in the rain and cold with no food, water, toilets ect). It was then that violence broke out, and I'm not surprised it did.</STRONG>[/quote]
So why was there need for violence? If the police didn't attack the protesters then why the violence...?
What alienates the general public isn't the message so much as it's method of delivery. look at steelgates threads, he has been posting his crap for months and has convinced no-one. Why? Becuase we aren't stupid, and no amount of slogans and empty promises is gonna convince me to take any different action.
Capitalism isn't perfect but, like it or not, it DOES work. It IS possible to rise from bottom to top, and vice versa, and I can't see any anarchic or socialist system offering the same. Personal profit is a great motivator...
<STRONG>
And their voices would have been louder if they hadn't been drowned out by the voilence. Look at Rome, Seattle, Stockholm and recently Barcelona...what is the memory of those events..political debate, or riots?
What is Heysel remembered for, the football match or the crowd violence...let me ask you this, who won the match and who scored the goals, and from which nation did those who died come from? I'll bet the last one is easier to answer...
And so it is with the protest, the voilence outweighs the message and the real reason for the march...
and you cannot blame the police in every single one of those towns....
Why?
Because when they grew up, they set aside their childish things...
Careful, MoK, the inference could be taken that you are calling stealgate and his ilk "stupid"... <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
LMFAO!
Hell, it's getting to be REALLY scarey when I am supporting not just Balddog, but both you and MacKenZie!?!?!?! <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Also a lot of the radicals you speak off did not go on to become capitalists, people like Tariq Ali for example who organised the London anti-Vietnam War demonstration in 1968. He still speaks at left wing demonstrations and is still committed to socialism.
Understanding the reality about capitalism is the most grown up thing that you can do! Under the present system of capitalism 5 per cent of the population owns 80 per cent of the worlds wealth and half the worlds population lives on less than two dollars a day. And the enivronment is being destroyed by greedy corporations in the name of profit. And imperialst wars like the so called War On Terrorism are being fought by the west in their quest to gain more resouces and to dominate the world for global capitalism.
www.marxist.com
Clearly you don't know anything about Tony Benn. I have been to several lectures by him, and frankly its my impression that he wouldn't agree with what you propose.
At the last one I attended, he specifically attacked the "smash the state" mentality of those who propose Communism and are setting up separate hard-left socialist parties. He is a peaceful, democratic man who wishes to further the needs of the poor through democratic means, not a violent overthrow and institution of Communism. Please - don't insult people like him by attempting to twist them for your pathetic arguments.
Secondly, I used to be an anarchist. I used to believe pasionatly that if anarchy could be achieved it would be the best solution (not perfect, but a lot better than capitalism). I still think that if it could be achieved it would be a lot better than capitalism, or just about any other system, however, I now also believe that it never will work, mainly due to what society has already become.
I'm not an anarchist any more, which is largely down to my general lazyness.
Eb:
A lot of the people in Britain commit crime, but because of that you can not lock up the entire nation. Most people there were not intent on violence. I spent about 4 hours in Oxford Circus (I got out earlier than most due to special circumstances) and I did not see one single womble. There may have been some where I didn't go, but there were not that many. For the first few hours in Oxford Circus there was no violence. Of course they would have been violence had the police not been present, to suggest otherwise would indeed be foolish, and the police should have been present. But myself, the people I went with, and most if the people I met there, had no intention of violence. There IS such a thing as a peaceful protest, and a peaceful protest is the best way to go about any protest.
However, to be held, illegally, against your will, for that length of time, in the cold and rain, with no food or water, without been let out to have a piss, and in conditions were it was difficult to move, and you couldn't sit down, I think most people would get a little frustrated, and I honestly believe that it provoked a lot of people to violence. It was clear to see that the violnece got worse as time moved on, and at the beginning there was very little, if any. At the end of it, I was fucking angry, we were treated like shit, given no reason for why we were been held, or any idea of when we would be let out. It was near impossible to stay calm.
Thanatos:
It wasn't a riot
MOK:
As I said above, the police did have to be there, and there would have been violnce without them. But they also provoked a lot of violence from peaceful protestors. They broke a lot fo laws they should not have broken. They refused medical assitance for people who needed it. They endangered peoples lives through overcrowding, and through putting people in a space where violent people were been held. They used uneccersary force and aggression, they abused their power, they took away peoples basic rights and they handled what was admittadly a difficult situation very badly. They were attacked by the media and the general public afterwards for their behaviour and stratagy.
The point of such a protest is to show how much public suppport there is for the causes people are protesting about. The fact is that hundreds of thousands of people are willing to turn up to such events to show their support, and I would say it is partly because of such a show of support that at least some of the issues are been addressed by the government.
I've run out of time now, so I may have missed some points, I will fill in any gaps later.
www.marxist.com
[ 27-03-2002: Message edited by: stealgate ]
Its no use saying 'but not everybody wanted to cause trouble'. It seems you are bitter about the fact you were held against your will, fair enough, but you must understand a much bigger affair was going on around you, those held in Oxford Circus were a small minority of the total protest, even when the OC bunch were freed some of then proceeded to cause trouble well into the night.
You need to look at it from the police's point of view mate, they had thousands of people gathered in London, then what ? do they say 'well some are here peacefully, so let them all be and we'll clear up in the morning' ? of course not, they tried to contain it as best they could, that meant containing the innocent and guilty, but as i've said, its better containing both than allowing both to do as they please because as we know, what the guilty wanted to do couldn't be allowed to happen <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
how would you approach policing this mayday out of intrest ? baring in mind somewhere in the crowds are hundreds of trouble makers intent on doing as much damage as possible.
I didn't fucking say he wasn't a socialist. Learn to read! He does not, as far as I have heard him speak, favour the establishment of Soviet style "socialism" or Communism, recognising the problems that go with it. He is opposed to the Socialist Alliance, Socialist Labour Party and other such socialist parties, recognising that the left must stay united and reclaim the Labour party.
Remember - the Labour party was never Communist or Syndicalist, and was heavily influenced by the Fabians, particularly the Webbs who practically wrote the Labour manifesto. If you read that manifesto, you will see that although much of the rhetoric is apparently extremely left wing (they needed this to keep the radicals on board), the message itself is not particularly hard-left.
You are frankly ignorant and blindly espouse nonsense copied from radical websites. The stuff I have seen you write yourself tends to be incoherent and even more absurd.
Its people like you that give the left a bad name.
We want to set up a system of democratic workers control of the means of production and produce goods for need not profit. That is our idea of communism. There aren't any communists in Britain that want to set up a Soviet style regime like Stalin did after he came to power.
Socialist Worker
I know it was a mess, I could see it was. When we first turned up in London we couldn't find any sign of a protest, only signs that there had been one (discarded placards and alike). We heard that a lot of people were gathering in oxford circus, so we went down there. When we first got there, there were a lot of police, as you would expect, but no where near as many as there were at the end. There was a friendly atmosphere between the protestors, people were playing music, and there was dancing and singing... it was all quite fun. I saw NO violence. After a couple of hours we tried to leave, and couldn't. After harrassing a police line on one side, they said we would be let out on the opposite side, so we crossed OC.
They were, obviously, bullshitting us, and not only were we not let out, but they had sent us into an area where some violence HAD broken out by that point. I once again point out that this violence was not there originally, and it only developed when people wanted to get out. So the police on the side of OC I was originally on actually endangered me, by sending me over there. (A brick missed my head by about 6cm)
I saw people been taken out of the crowd for medical treatment (such as fairly serious looking head wounds) and then been thrown back in after being bandaged up. I saw someone collapse on the floor, right in front of the police, and they just left her there -unconcious - for 5 minutes. My friend was claustrophobic, and had a panic attack (as they were happilly letting more and more people in), and was shaking and crying, he couldn't stand (but they wouldn't let him sit) he found it hard to breathe.... and they left him there for at least an hour until finally a neutral medic managed to talk his way out. They told people, men and women alike, to piss in the street, which we then had to stand in for up to another 8 hours. They performed illegal searches, they illegally took photos and filmed protestors, they illegally took peoples details... the list goes on.
I think that something more needs to be said then "some of the 3000 people there were intent on violence" to justify that action.
The majority of the protestors were held in OC. And I'm bitter about a lot of the things that I saw, and heard.
There were 6000 police to 3000 protestors that day. I'm sure that they could have managed it in a slightly less brutal and inhumane way.
I'd have just handed out a few free pills.... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I don't know, I'm not a police officer, and I haven't had training in crowd control, but I would not have allowed 3000 people, most of who were innocent, to be treated worse than animals, which they were without a doubt.
Perhaps they are over the top, but surely you must of known they would of been heavy handed ? its not nice, but i really believe its neccessary - until you or anybody eles can give a viable alternative that would be as effective its the way it must be <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
when your in the middle of it naturally your going fucking crazy at the situation, but when i was miles away watching (on a comedown i seem to recall) in my room it seemed apparent they were doing the right thing, perhaps the media were twisting it a bit, but the actions of some protestors were there for all to see, both those away from OC and then those let out of OC later on. I'm also confident the same tactics will be employed this time around and rightly so, police must maintain law and order and if its the only way possible then so be it <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
On an individual level you must remember those policemen had given up their bank holiday to be at that demo, i'm fairly sure they'd of been pissed off at that fact - police are humans, not robots and so it wouldn't suprise me in the least that you felt their personal backlash in the OC situation, it shouldn't be the case, but then can you really blame them ? nobody likes work after all <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Its just a shame some people were intent on violence - for the police, for peaceful marchers, for the cause and for the tax payer <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
p.s - you should of seen the wombles mate, i had to laugh at them, it was class to watch, they were fuckin nasty, but then in a womble outfit it just doesn't seem nasty - very surreal <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
watch this year on the news, bbc 2 cancelled an entire days programming to show it live last year, i guarentee you'll be shocked just how organised some of the protestors were and perhaps then you may understand the police tactics <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Bank Holidays are always on monday (bar xmas). The MayDay bank holiday is always on the first monday in May. May 1st was a tuesday. The protest was on a Tuesday. I remeber because I went straight from college.
I know some of the protests were very well, and nastily, organised. I read and watched the news, I even still have copies of some of the newspapers.
The fact that some people were intent on violence is not a good enough reason to treat everyone there as a criminal (worse than a criminal). They endangered peoples lives and they took away peoples basic liberties. As I said before, a lot of people in london are criminals, but thats not a reason to lock everyone up.
The media DID twist things, of course they did, in the build up, and during the event. But in the aftermath, even the media admitted that the police went too far.
You said the actions of the protestors were there for all to see, which they were, and some of it was very bad. There were twice as many police there that day, and I saw some of their actions, and a lot of that was very bad.
You can not maintain law and order by breaking the law and causing chaos.
ANYONE who does not realize that violence is part and parcel of the agenda is so fucking naive that they certainly are on the path to being DARWIN'D out of existence!!! "Police violence" and "establishment tyranny" are the two most prized cards of the anarchist/socialist/communists.
You knew that disruptive violence was going to happen, but you participated anyway???
Chaos came as a result of the actions of the "demonstrators, who chose to RIOT. Own up to responsibility for your own actions. Have you not read Tolstoy's treatise on "Civil Disobedience"??? DO WHAT YOUR CONSCIENCE DICTATES, AND THEN ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR CHOICES.
Anything else is to invalidate the position that you would support.
Step out in front of the trolley, then whine because you got hit?
You participated along side those who INTENDED to flaunt the law!!! If you want to be taken seriously, quit your fucking whining...
The original plan was for everyone to go to Oxford Cirus at 4pm after the smaller demonstrations, then there would be a march down Oxford Street to Hyde Park. There was a group of people in padding crash helmets and overall who were supposed to push at police lines if the police tried to hem everyone in so that the march down Oxford Street could procede. Due to the fact that a thousand people go there two hours early this plan failed.
The police had no need to hold those people for hours they could have easily marched them down to Hyde Park as they had wanted to do then allow them to disperse in the park.
The small amount of violence occured late in the day because people were angry at being held for hours and were angry at police tactics!
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