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Tony Blair's speech and the news.

13

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by cheekychick
    2) Millions of people could die, not only counting those killed in the attacks on Iraq but those killed as a result of the increase in terrorism this war brings about.

    what happens if they poison the water supply? Everyone could die. Except the queen, she never seems to die...

    Seriously though Baghdad is bigger than Wales, they're looking for one person who has several doubles and he may not even be there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac


    what happens if they poison the water supply? Everyone could die. Except the queen, she never seems to die...

    Seriously though Baghdad is bigger than Wales, they're looking for one person who has several doubles and he may not even be there.

    Chaos mate do you remember the first Gulf War?

    Saddam invaded Kuwait. A harmless country. He needs to be apprehended. I doubt he'd poison the water supply. I think he has better things to do...like try and keep alive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac


    what happens if they poison the water supply? Everyone could die. Except the queen, she never seems to die...

    Seriously though Baghdad is bigger than Wales, they're looking for one person who has several doubles and he may not even be there.

    Poison the water supply? What the fuck are you talking about? Do you not realise how stupid you sound wth such random things?

    And whilst they're trying to kill Saddam obviously, it doesn't matter that much if they take him out or not - if he flees/has fled the country, then he's not in charge of Iraq and doing terrible things, is he?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LacyMay


    Chaos mate do you remember the first Gulf War?

    Saddam invaded Kuwait. A harmless country. He needs to be apprehended. I doubt he'd poison the water supply. I think he has better things to do...like try and keep alive.

    I was a toddler when the gulf war happened ;)

    Why is it so random shukes? it's possible...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac


    I was a toddler when the gulf war happened ;)

    Why is it so random shukes? it's possible...

    So was i. But i still remember it.

    Aliens landing tomorrow is random. Doesnt mean its gonna happen!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac


    I was a toddler when the gulf war happened ;)

    Why is it so random shukes? it's possible...

    A lot of things are possible, do you intend to bring up every bad possible outcome of the war without bothering to mention how unlikely it is, and not even trying to back up your core reason for opposing the war? Your main point so far has been that you don't htink the war should take place because people will die - yet you've been told here countless times that whilst people will die, it'll lead to much less deaths in the long term, as Saddams regime won't be able to continue, killing people who oppose him EVERY DAY - in short MORE people will die if we DON'T go to war.

    So what have you got against it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LacyMay


    So was i. But i still remember it.

    Aliens landing tomorrow is random. Doesnt mean its gonna happen!

    aliens landing tomorrow is much less likely. Posioning water or other methods are highly possible.

    I don't remember it because I remember little of my childhood after it being so fucked up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac


    aliens landing tomorrow is much less likely. Posioning water or other methods are highly possible.

    I don't remember it because I remember little of my childhood after it being so fucked up.

    This is about the war. Dont turn it into a "i've led such a bad life" thread cos i can assure you, mine has been a lot worse than yours.

    You need to read up on this war Chaos. You dont seem to understand it at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LacyMay


    This is about the war. Dont turn it into a "i've led such a bad life" thread cos i can assure you, mine has been a lot worse than yours.

    You need to read up on this war Chaos. You dont seem to understand it at all.

    the reason i said that was purely to express why I don't remember things, not to turn it into an *i've led such a bad life* thread because I know others are far worse. Besides depression isn't solely gaged on life experience, but that's beside the point.

    You seem to disregard every fact I state as untrue or amplified, which is why you think I don't understand.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac


    the reason i said that was purely to express why I don't remember things, not to turn it into an *i've led such a bad life* thread because I know others are far worse. Besides depression isn't solely gaged on life experience, but that's beside the point.

    You seem to disregard every fact I state as untrue or amplified, which is why you think I don't understand.

    Then why on earth did you mention that you can't remember much of the First Gulf War because you're childhood was "so fucked up" - what revelance has that got to anything?

    And the fact is that almost EVERYTHING you have said in this thread so far, and other War threads, HAVE been untrue or blown out of proportion - which brings us all to the conclusion that you know virtually nothing about the situation. Stop being so stubborn.

    And you haven't replied to my last post. Why not, I wonder...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No its not fact though. Yes people could die. Not millions though.

    Do you know that Saddam kills his own people? He bombs them, captures them or shoots them. He takes people away from their homes. He tears families apart. Hes a dictator. Like Hitler was, they dont understand anything but force.

    Would you rather they left it for another 12 years? So he killed more of his own people and possibly us too? Cos he would darlin. That was his intention.

    I dont think you need to worry too much about water poisoning. Like i said in a previous thread England has been under threat from terroist groups for many decades. There have been bombings in Manchester and London (amongst other places) in the last 10 years. They are much closer to you than anyone in Iraq.

    This isnt a clear cut war. Its not "against war" and "for war" you have to weigh up everything then make a decision. Just not base a decision on "millions are gonna die" cos its not true :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still believe millions could die. If this keeps going my fear is the war will spread to other areas of the world, which is why I believe what i believe. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac
    I still believe millions could die. If this keeps going my fear is the war will spread to other areas of the world, which is why I believe what i believe. ;)

    You believe this based on what? You are ignorant (overused word I know but it applies to you very well) and well, stupid. It's people like you who are ruining our country. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac
    I still believe millions could die. If this keeps going my fear is the war will spread to other areas of the world, which is why I believe what i believe. ;)

    No darlin.

    Please read up on it. You dont seem to know much about it. If your interested in it, read about it. Watch the news etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LacyMay


    No darlin.

    Please read up on it. You dont seem to know much about it. If your interested in it, read about it. Watch the news etc.


    I have been watching the news. It's scary and I don't like it at all. It upsets me, and it could spread to other countries, what's to stop it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac



    I have been watching the news. It's scary and I don't like it at all. It upsets me, and it could spread to other countries, what's to stop it?

    Yes it could spread. But i dont think Wrexham is high on their list of bombing targets.

    Worry bout that when it happens. To be honest i aint fucked what happens. If i die, i die.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac



    I have been watching the news. It's scary and I don't like it at all. It upsets me, and it could spread to other countries, what's to stop it?

    Oh boo hoo. It upsets you. Well I'm sure it must be wrong if you get a bit teary because of it.

    War isn't a nice thing. But in this case it's necessary. Millions of people will NOT die - you don't seem to realise that it's just not going to happen. If you genuinely believe that then you are just being stupid.

    How could it spread to other countries? Do you not realise what a stupid statement that is? Do you think over countries are suddenly going to start declaring war all other the place for no good reason? Did the fighting spread to other countries in the last Gulf War?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    that's pretty immature of you shukes. I was being totally mature about all of this, voicing my opinion in a mature way, as was lacy_may, then you come and say I'm being stupid for thinking things. I don't *genuinely believe that* I geuinely worry that it could happen.

    The spreading to other countries I'm concerned about is if Saddam strikes back on the USA and the UK. I'm not totally sure but I think we'd have at least a country or two to stick up for us, bringing them into it, don't you? I mean surely you're *all for the war* so surely you realise other countries not involved yet are for it? :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac
    that's pretty immature of you shukes. I was being totally mature about all of this, voicing my opinion in a mature way, as was lacy_may, then you come and say I'm being stupid for thinking things. I don't *genuinely believe that* I geuinely worry that it could happen.

    The spreading to other countries I'm concerned about is if Saddam strikes back on the USA and the UK. I'm not totally sure but I think we'd have at least a country or two to stick up for us, bringing them into it, don't you? I mean surely you're *all for the war* so surely you realise other countries not involved yet are for it? :p

    lmao, you're calling other people immature? You're the one who accuses everyone of hating you every five minutes cause we don't agree with you.

    Saddam striking back against the USA and the UK? How exactly? He doesn't have the capabilities to attack either the UK or USA directly, the only thing he can do is send his troops to battle ours and fire a couple of missiles at them - which is what he is doing.

    Stop being so naive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac
    I don't *genuinely believe that* I geuinely worry that it could happen.

    And I *genuinely worry* that if this war doesn't continue and Saddam isn't taken out of power, thousands of innocent Iraqis will continue to die every year, and that Saddam will start getting Nuclear Weapons and we'll be in a much more dangerous position than we're currently in, with no way to really stop him or his peoples suffering.

    Seriously, can you not see the countless flaws and holes in your argument?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you should have added *surprise! no offensive comments!* on the end of that:rolleyes:

    Listen, I see what you're saying, but I still don't think Saddam's existence is a justifyable reason for war. Nor is the oil. I know people are sufferin but I feel war is not the answer, there must be some other way.


















    and before you ask....no I can't think of any other than weird missions involving getting near saddam by working for him or peace talks...which seem unlikely to work.






    That is my flaw....:p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac

    Listen, I see what you're saying, but I still don't think Saddam's existence is a justifyable reason for war. Nor is the oil. I know people are sufferin but I feel war is not the answer, there must be some other way

    There aint.

    They tried sanctions and talking for 12 years. Did it get us anywhere? Did it fuck.
  • Flake_MustaineFlake_Mustaine Posts: 1,261 Wise Owl
    The only way this whole thing was ever going to work was to bomb the country flat. The determination of the United States at this present moment in time will mean that they will not rest until they've done what they set out to do.

    As for all the civilian killings.. Iraq had plenty of time to stand down but didn't.. EVERYONE knew this war was going to come if action wasn't taken by the Iraqi's.. If they'd stood down when they were 'supposed to'.. then nobody would have ever been hurt.

    Not the most convincing discussion i've ever posted to a thread, but i thought i'd add my penny's worth to this inciteful debate :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its not the fact that saddam isnt bad, because he is. its about the fact theyre not giving the truth about this stupid war, it IS about oil, There are loads of other terrible regimes where people live without basic human rights, but theyve got nothing worth taking, so nobody wants to invade them. Bush has admitted he wants to do this because saddam tried to kill his dad - its about revenge too, and a huge show of muscle. America has no right to call the moral high ground over anyone, theyve nuked their own people before, theyve tortured people. GW Bush is a warmonger, we all knew he would be like this if he got in (and he wasnt even elected) he doesnt give a shit about democracy, and now neither does Tony Blair, as long as he stays in Americas good books, fuck what the people of Britain want.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Coundlnt have said it better rainbow brite
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and by the way, I think the way some of you have ridiculed Chaos` opinions are only doing it because of who he is - not because of what he says. If someone more popular had said those things, you wouldnt have ridiculed it liek that. I agree this place is like one big popularity contest lately, if youre popular, you practically get love letters strewn all over the message boards, and if youre not popular you get your opinions ridiculed - whatever they are. its a disgrace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    its not the fact that saddam isnt bad, because he is. its about the fact theyre not giving the truth about this stupid war, it IS about oil, There are loads of other terrible regimes where people live without basic human rights, but theyve got nothing worth taking, so nobody wants to invade them. Bush has admitted he wants to do this because saddam tried to kill his dad - its about revenge too, and a huge show of muscle. America has no right to call the moral high ground over anyone, theyve nuked their own people before, theyve tortured people. GW Bush is a warmonger, we all knew he would be like this if he got in (and he wasnt even elected) he doesnt give a shit about democracy, and now neither does Tony Blair, as long as he stays in Americas good books, fuck what the people of Britain want.

    What's your point though? Whether its about oil or not, it doesn't alter the fact that both we and the people of Iraq will be in a better position if the war continues, so whats wrong with it? I dislike the idea of war as much as anyone, but it doesn't alter those basic facts.

    And democracy? The majority of the people of Britain know very little about the war, so can you really blame Tony Blair for ignoring their protests? I don't see why everybody is so keen to have an opinion over the issue, so many people simply aren't informed enough to be able to make an effective point, whatever they believe in. I'm not saying I'm that informed over the war, but I don't go out on protests for/against something when I'm aware I don't know that much about it, and don't understand why other people can't do this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    and by the way, I think the way some of you have ridiculed Chaos` opinions are only doing it because of who he is - not because of what he says. If someone more popular had said those things, you wouldnt have ridiculed it liek that. I agree this place is like one big popularity contest lately, if youre popular, you practically get love letters strewn all over the message boards, and if youre not popular you get your opinions ridiculed - whatever they are. its a disgrace.

    I think that's got nothing to do with it. People are arguing with him (and not *ridiculing* him, he's the one acussing everyone of hating him just because we disagree with him) mainly because of the stupidity of some of the things he's said - he's admitted that he can't actualy think of a better solution than war, yet still says he's against the war and goes on protests against it - what kind of logic is that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well it started with Keizo bluntly saying `youre an idiot` to Chaos, Chaos retorted sticking up for himself and said that what Keizo had said was silly and childish, then you (shukes) said `well thats better than your silly and childish opinions`. Do you really think Chaos WOULDNT feel offended by that? I know I would feel a little pissed off, and I know for a fact that if someone like Lacymay had said she was anti war, people wouldnt have been so quick to dismiss her. What Chaos said wasnt stupid or immature, he was expressing a very real fear that a lot of people have, who refuse to believe the propaganda. Even people who arent usually that political or into protesting are against this war. The whole things illegal for a start, this whole thing of pre-emptive strikes is very worrying, If its ok for America to bomb somewhere because they percieve they MIGHT be a threat, then why is it not OK for others to do it to us - after all we ARE a threat to them. America is the biggest threat to world peace out of everyone. If you really think America and Britain are doing this out of the good of their hearts because they want to help the poor Iraqi people, then maybe you can explain to me how bombing the shit out of them could possibly help them, while saddam hussein sits nice and safe in a bunker somewhere.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg

    Kiezo, you in particular started an argument in the 'patriotism' thread but have not returned.......care to come and make your response?

    Yeah, I did.

    You never responded to the last post I made in that thread.
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