why the war protestors are full of s***

Former Member

Yes but people should be able to work out that this is a minority and is not an accurate reflection of the general mood.

In a democracy people should applaud the display of support for a reasonable alternative view, even if they do not support it as it is part of the democratic debate we are supposed to be defending.

I know the US is very varied but it is still worrying (kinda puts paid to the nationalist idea of a national character huh?)

Former Member

Actually Toad, despite what pnj wishes to believe about the shining principle of democracy we Americans are spoon fed from childhood, the US system has maintained itself on the basis of conformity rather than variety of opinion.

Ive no doubt you see that fact exemplified in the UK as the talk seems to point to little difference remaining between Tories and Labour.

In the US, from North to South East to West you might find shades of difference, but overall it is the same news with the same slants wherever you go. Such is the victory of media consolidation into so few hands.

It is also why those in power can spit vitriole and labels such as "traitor" or (as Thanatos would say) "collaborator" to all who voice dissent from the current narrow-minded, non-thinking flag waving majority.

US society is largely an intolerant cookie cutter society and has been that way increasingly since its inception.

Former Member

toadborg, my dad says right now things have gone more right wing than they were. I don't remember the "were" times.:p

There's a very big peace movement here....200,000 marched in NYC last Saturday.

With soldiers dying in Iraq...people don't feel it's right to say too much. Even the news shows that had a right and left view...the left is really careful about what they are saying.

Support for the war is at 76%. Al Qaeda helping the Iraqis via the Internet didn't help the anti-war cause.

Former Member

Yes the UK democratic system is pretty poor.

The two leading parties are the same (more or less) and the whole sytem is mired in old traditions and outdated customs.

We have been promised reform in the Lords but is Blair who is trying hardest to water it down and noe Cook has gone there seems little hope.........

Also our media, particularly the newspapers (Yes i am thinking of the S*n) can get away with what is almost outright lies.....

Pathetic....

Former Member

Pathetic indeed. But pnj gobbles down those yummy lies like candy bars! lol.

Former Member

Once hostilities start the reaction of many people is to "get behind our lads" regardless of what they thought of going to war. That might account for that 76% support pnj.

Moreoever support for Daddy Bush in 1991 was more than 90% so present figures are not so impressive.

Former Member

I do like candy bars...Clandestine.

Well, Aladdin, they're risking their lives and risking being tortured by one of the worst governments on earth. The 76% went up. It might be a response to the peace movement...the news showed the few in each demonstration who were being jerks.

Why doesn't anyone care about Shiite Muslims? There's an uprising going on today in Iraq. Aren't we happy for them?

Former Member

Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
I do like candy bars...Clandestine.

Well, Aladdin, they're risking their lives and risking being tortured by one of the worst governments on earth.

Which is precisely why you should be protesting against men and women who signed up for the army to defend their country being used as political pawns in a war that has nothing to do with defending America and everything with geopolitical and economic interests.

You don't need to be pro-war to care for the wellbeing of your armed forces... on the contrary.

Former Member

Saddam probably isn't in Iraq anymore, apparently he used to be a spy? The slippy bastard will always get out, no matter what, he's smarter than Bush... Waaaay smarter. You think that direct action would have helped?

Personally, I think that the soldiers are f*cked once they get in to Bhagdad (is that how it's spelt?), there's gonna be something waiting, they're gonna be cornered because it ain't as easy as the Americans thought.

Yes I have protested, although I won't do anything radical and willingly listen to other people's points of view. I have respect to the nation's army for going out and giving it their all, they knew what they were signing up for... You don't sign up for the army and not expect to go out and fight. It's the leaders that most of us don't trust. Do they really give a sh*t about the civilians or Iraq? Oh yeah, the US dropped food... BLOODY PEANUT BUTTER!!! I'm sorry, but I find that amusing, pathetic even.

Hey, did you know that the US has 50% of the world's wealth? Israel has hundreds of nuclear warheads... Will they be on target next? I'm sorry if it causes offense, but there's no way I'd support the US and UK in the war. Too many people have died from the very weapons that they've dealt to other countries including Israel. Not to mention Bush rigging elections and funding the IRA and taking bribes off Esso to back the USA out of the World Summit. Hey, I'm bitching at the USA and UK, but only because I'm justifying my beliefs. No country is perfect, this whole world sucks.

It's never easy, it ain't black and white. Saddam has to go, seriously, but thumbs up to everybody who fights for what they believe.