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It is beginning

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,917323,00.html

The alliance forces have fromerly broken the ceasefire by moving into the demilitarised zone ahead of the ultimatum deadline tomorrow.

tariq Aziz is said to have feld or been shot trying........

Comments

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They're also taking out an Iraqi artilary in Southern Iraq that could reach the troops. And 17 Iraqi soldiers just surrendered to Kuwati police.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But the 17 aren't POW's as the war hasn't started yet, so are they refugees? will the US let them come to America? And what will happen to their families in Iraq?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    P0001063.JPG

    Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail
    once you provoke her, rattling of her tail
    never begins it, never, but once engaged...
    never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage

    don't tread on me

    so be it
    threaten no more
    to secure peace is to prepare for war
    so be it
    settle the score
    touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore...

    don't tread on me

    love it or live it, she with the deadly bite
    quick is the blue tongue, forked as lighting strike
    shining with brightness, always on surveillance
    the eyes, they never close, emblem of vigilance

    don't tread on me
    wtc-people-hanging-photo5b.jpg

    so be it
    threaten no more
    to secure peace is to prepare for war
    so be it
    settle the score
    touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore...

    don't tread on me
    wtc-people-falling-photo-394261101d2.jpg
    so be it
    threaten no more
    to secure peace is to prepare for war

    liberty or death, what we so proudly hail
    once you provoke her, rattling on her tail

    so be it
    threaten no more
    to secure peace is to prepare for war
    so be it
    settle the score
    touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore...

    don't tread on me
    030318_warpreps_03.jpg

    In response to the events of 11 September 2001, POTUS George W Bush promised that the US would bring to reckoning both the terrorists who perpetrated the act, and those who sponsor/harbor terrorists, wherever/whoever they might be.

    So be it.

    Observe my countrymen in the photos, hanging from windows, then leaping to their death to escape the inferno.

    Observe my brothers, preparing for the reckoning of one who sponsors terrorism, even upon his own nation.
    Isaiah 6: 8 > 13

    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"

    And I said "Here I am. Send me!"

    He said, "Go and tell this people:

    'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'
    Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes.
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

    Then I said, "For how long, O Lord?"

    And He answered:
    "Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant, until the houses are left deserted and the fields ruined and ravaged,
    "Until the Lord has sent everyone far away and the land is utterly forsaken.
    "And though a tenth remains in the land, it will again be laid waste.
    "But as the terebinth and oak leave stumps when they are cut down, so the holy seed will be the stump in the land."


    So be it...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For the clandestine collaborator, a T-shirt:

    business2.jpg

    Wear it in health.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Globe,

    I've just put up a new thread about board behaviour during this conflict. could you please have a look?

    cheers

    BB
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed, and as ever, using the horrific pictures of 9/11 (as emotive as they might be) just shows how the media has spun this war in the minds of the American public to the point where they only need be told that a country is a threat (without any proof whatsoever or independent research into such claims) in order to believe it.

    Iraq and the WoT have nothing, Nothing, NOTHING whatsoever to do with one another. This is a war for oil.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    globe,

    I fully agree that Saddam is an evil man and the human rights abuses in Iraq are horrific and must be stopped. I’m just not signed up to the idea that that really has anything to do with this war. Do you see Bush even MENTIONING Zimbabwe and the hideous things Mugabe is doing to his people? No. Because Zimbabwe isn’t really that interesting from a strategic point of view, it’s human rights aren’t really that important. Ditto most African states, and indeed, large chunks of the world.

    Yep, maybe if Zimbabwe had the same amount of oil Iraq has it would be a different story.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Two army divisions totalling 20,000 troops based in the south of Iraq are set to give themselves up to Allied forces in nearby Kuwait, the sources told Sky News reporter Colin Brazier

    Yeah baby!:D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,918151,00.html

    The Iraqis have retaliated to the coalition attack......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Globe I feel patriotic too but those photos really upset me. I like to have warning on what I view. One time two people were having a discussion about Saddam. Then one person posted a link and a thought that said: hey check this out. I clicked on it and it was pictures of people Saddam had had tortured, fingers clipped from hands, eyes poked out...I felt it was unfair to post that kind of link and not warn anyone. Same thing when someone in the middle of a discussion about not wearing fur...posted a link with dogs and cats being used in animal testing. I just think it's not right not to warn people....even when I agree with what you're saying.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Al, love the comment of the chap they supposedly interviewed (near to the end) referring to the US using nuclear weapons if Saddam uses chemical weapons.

    I dont think he'd be smiling too long if Bush did, certainly not as he would be a puddle of goo as well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Al, love the comment of the chap they supposedly interviewed (near to the end) referring to the US using nuclear weapons if Saddam uses chemical weapons.

    I dont think he'd be smiling too long if Bush did, certainly not as he would be a puddle of goo as well.

    It actually wouldnt surprise me if chemical weapons were used by Bush on his own men, just to claim support for the war. Theyve already got a history of doing it in 1991, though not for the same reason.

    Oh, and the War on Terrorism has as much in common with the war in Iraq as my shit does to a Scud missile. Just to remind you that Iraq, other than the Kurdish controlled area in the north, has nothing to do with Al Qaeda.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You dont have to convince me Kermit, Ive been against this war and the Bush admin from the very start.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine

    Iraq and the WoT have nothing, Nothing, NOTHING whatsoever to do with one another. This is a war for oil.


    How is that so exactly?
    During the war, oil prices will go up.
    We get all the oil we need from the other Middle Eastern countries.
    The US and UK are self sufficient in oil anyway
    If it really is about oil then why aren't France, Germany and any other European nations who need the oil joining in?

    try again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit


    Oh, and the War on Terrorism has as much in common with the war in Iraq as my shit does to a Scud missile. Just to remind you that Iraq, other than the Kurdish controlled area in the north, has nothing to do with Al Qaeda.


    Again, why are YOU linking it to the war on terrorism? Blair isn't. He wants Saddam stopped because those scuds contain chemicals far more lethal than your shit.
    Yes, maybe the USA does have small stocks of bio/chemicals somewhere, it doesn't demonstrate their effectiveness by testing them on innocent people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere I suggest you go and do some lengthy research into the strategic economic value seizing control of the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world will provide the US.

    For your info, the US and certainly the UK are NOT self sufficient in oil. Both countries buy vast amounts from OPEC, which means heavy reliance on the Saudis. Controlling IRaq will give them the edge they need should they decide to phase out dependence on Saudi oil (especially now that theyve cleared the way for the Afghan pipeline into the Mid Asian oil sources as well).

    Just because you dont want to believe that it is so doesnt change the fact that this is precisely what this war is about, start to finish.

    And Bush and his cronies will be laughing all the way to the bank regardless of how many might die on either side.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere



    Again, why are YOU linking it to the war on terrorism? Blair isn't. He wants Saddam stopped because those scuds contain chemicals far more lethal than your shit.
    Yes, maybe the USA does have small stocks of bio/chemicals somewhere, it doesn't demonstrate their effectiveness by testing them on innocent people.

    :eek2: :confused:

    Have you been reading the papers recently, Blair, powell, Straw, Rumsfeld, all the fools have been going on about the link to terrorism incessantly despite the fact that no-one believes them.

    Do you know what the range of a Scud missile is?

    If that was there only argument that Saddam posed a threat they would be laughed out of office.......

    The US has stocks chemical and bio weapons that would dwarf what Saddam has. They are constantly researching new technology, this is the largets and most powerful army on the planet and chem/bio are part of their arsenal.....

    There is also evidence that the US and UK have tested weapons on their own troops in the 50's and 60's, I do believe
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I recall Afghanistan having sizeable oil reserves, I don't see petrol pcies dropping due to the huge influx of oil though, do you?
    The UK is self sufficient in the heavy fuel oils required for power generation as well as coal and natural gas, we export the stuff to Europe for christ's sake. It doesn't take too much engineering and bio-chemistry to refine the stuff so it is suitable at least for vehicles that require diesel fuel.
    As for the US, Alaska is just one big oil well.
    We import oil from the Middle East in order to pevent our own stocks diminishing too rapidly, if needs be we can use our own. And any fool can see that research into alternative fuels, albeit slow is getting faster.
    People in the UK are far more concerned about the environment than our counterparts in the USA, and due to the volumes of traffic on our roads have a far more pressing need for alternative transport.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg


    :eek2: :confused:

    Have you been reading the papers recently, Blair, powell, Straw, Rumsfeld, all the fools have been going on about the link to terrorism incessantly despite the fact that no-one believes them.

    Do you know what the range of a Scud missile is?

    If that was there only argument that Saddam posed a threat they would be laughed out of office.......

    The US has stocks chemical and bio weapons that would dwarf what Saddam has. They are constantly researching new technology, this is the largets and most powerful army on the planet and chem/bio are part of their arsenal.....

    There is also evidence that the US and UK have tested weapons on their own troops in the 50's and 60's, I do believe

    The US government doesn't use it on its own population, when was the last time you saw an anthrax missile hitting an indian reservation of Mexico?
    The Uk government tested it on animals on an uninhabited island in Scotland, mustard gas and other agents were used on troops wearing full NBC gear, if anyone died it was from old age.
    A scud, thanks to the embargoes should have a range of 100 miles, they probably have more which flies in the face of Saddam's incessant ramblings that they are harmless, doesn't it.
    And Blair has kept quiet about any links with terrorism, his sole concern is the NBC weaponry Saddam has.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Opening up the Iraqi oil fields will increase world supply, increasing competition and lowering prices, thus benefiting our economies........

    It also seems that the contracts are going to go to US companies.....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    World supply can be increased dramitically, all OPEC have to do is increase production, which they have the capability to do.
    And aren't prices in the USA low enough already? I remember prices of about $5 a gallon when I went there not long ago. Seems they have too much oil....? So why lower prices more.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But the US can't tell OPEC what to do, they will be able to in Iraq.

    There is no such thing as too much oil.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your argument about oil prices is spurious Whowhere. The benefits of seizing control of Iraqi oil production have of course not come about yet since we havent yet taken the country, nor has the pipeline through Afghanistan been built, but both are certainties and the price controls will follow accordingly. You definitely are as willfully blind to the truth as is pnj.
    The US government doesn't use it on its own population

    Actually you obviously must not keep abreast of too much world news at all. Most recently you might recall the Anthrax mail attacks which were at the very least proven to have originated from US military labs and nowhere else. The fact that the government has stonewalled the investigation only points to likely collusion by some high level military personnel with sufficient political and military connections to escape justice.

    Prior to that, there is a case to be made for (and one which is believed by many gulf war 1 veterans) that the US took the opportunity to test new chemical or biological agents on our own men. I for one would not be surprised in the slightest that that in fact happened. We are dealing with a machine which has zero ethical or moral fibre whatsoever. Profit is all that matters to these nutcases.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere
    The US government doesn't use it on its own population, when was the last time you saw an anthrax missile hitting an indian reservation of Mexico?

    Leaving aside the fact that Mexico is NOT part of the US, you halfwit, you are quite accurate. It tests on the populations of Chile, of Nicaragua, of Cuba, of Vietnam, of Malaysia, of Indonesia, instead. All far more charitable and kind, Im sure youll agree. After all, you do believe that Westerners are far more important than some poxy Third Worlder, theyre only uncivilised filth at the end of the day.
    The Uk government tested it on animals on an uninhabited island in Scotland, mustard gas and other agents were used on troops wearing full NBC gear, if anyone died it was from old age.

    Old age troops? We havent had those since the 1940s. Surely you meant instead that elderly people were killed by mustard gas leaked, from, say, Porton Down. Oh, and why should we test chemicals on our own troops, theyre paid to fight not give ten generations of heir families serious genetic defects. Again, Porton Down.

    A scud, thanks to the embargoes should have a range of 100 miles, they probably have more which flies in the face of Saddam's incessant ramblings that they are harmless, doesn't it.

    They dont, but supposing they have, say, a range of 1000 miles, they still arent a threat to us, are they? They might conceivably hit Israel, but they wouldnt even hit London with a range five times that. Least of all New York, or LA. So why, exactly, is he a threat to us? Unless...

    And Blair has kept quiet about any links with terrorism, his sole concern is the NBC weaponry Saddam has.

    Blair and Bush harp on and on about Al Qaeda to justify hussein as a threat. Which they do...even if Hussein has NBC, which is unproven at the very least, he couldnt reach the US or UK with them using conventioanl weapons. An inter-ballistic missile would have difficulty getting beyond Dublin, and Scuds probably wouldnt even hit the Blkans from Iraq. So hes either of no threat, or hes a terrorist, both of which you disagree with. Which one is it then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere
    I recall Afghanistan having sizeable oil reserves, I don't see petrol pcies dropping due to the huge influx of oil though, do you?
    The UK is self sufficient in the heavy fuel oils required for power generation as well as coal and natural gas, we export the stuff to Europe for christ's sake. It doesn't take too much engineering and bio-chemistry to refine the stuff so it is suitable at least for vehicles that require diesel fuel.
    As for the US, Alaska is just one big oil well.
    We import oil from the Middle East in order to pevent our own stocks diminishing too rapidly, if needs be we can use our own. And any fool can see that research into alternative fuels, albeit slow is getting faster.
    People in the UK are far more concerned about the environment than our counterparts in the USA, and due to the volumes of traffic on our roads have a far more pressing need for alternative transport.

    Yes, but you dont actually understand it, do you? Its not about price, its about CONTROL. When the US and UK gain control of the Iraqi oil, theyre not gonna flod the market with it, theyre going to hoard it and keep prices high. But the profits would then go to Bushs il-drilling paymasters, not OPEC. Dont you see that the US dont NEED the oil, they WANT it. Its about controlling thsoe pesky Saudis as much as anything- if OPEC dont behave, then the market could be flooded, but it wouldnt be.

    Its the same principle that De Beers et al use to keep diamond prices incredibly high. Diamonds are plentiful, but they control the market so supply is stifled, leading to higher prices. You might want to research things more, and be less naive about everything Corrupt and Corrupter tell you.
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