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No, youre just a killer. If its legal, its not murder.
Ok, you could call it a killer, even though the actions were the same. Don't forget just because it is legal doesn't mean it is justified.
Define "justified," please? I can explain most things -- does that mean that they are "justified"? So what if we can trace the root causes of an action? That doesn't mean it was morally correct (if that is what you mean by "justified").
In any case, you still haven't proven your assertion that the death penalty is barbaric. Nor, to my mind, have you even shown that killing is barabaric. I await suitable responses. <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Justified - using appropriate actions to achieve somethings.
Death penalty is not justified because it is not an appropriate form of punishment, as simple as that.
Law is not god, throughout history dictators had used law to achieve what they wanted.
Death penalty was widely used in ancient and medieval times, since there was no concept of human rights at that time. Now we live in the civilised world, we all agree every human has basic human rights, killing someone is therefore barbaric because it contradicted with the modern civilised human rights concept.
The word murder means an illegal killing. Justification doesnt come into it, if its legal then its not murder. Using emotive language doesnt work well when you use incorrect words.
PS, what ON EARTH gave you the idea we are living in a civilised world?
All the crap Blair spouts out about "an attack on the civilised free world" e.t.c.
Anyone that bases their view of the world on the statements of Blair or Bush is not even worth thinking about.
You are an IDEALIST.
When I was a child, I thought as a child, I spoke as a child, and I did childish things. I was an idealist, bordering upon being a pacifist... <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Things changed... <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
As a civilian, I twice defended my life by taking that of the assailant, once when I was sixteen and knifed, the second when I was seventeen and shot. Both occaisions occurred in East Oakland, Peoples Republik of Kalifornia.
I was a political activist in high school, and actively campaigned for Wayne Morse (as US Senator from Oregon), and Eugene McCarthy (presidential campaign). Both were publicly vehemently opposed to the conflict in Vietnam. I was instrumental in bringing the 18 year old vote to Oregon (working with Earl Blumenauer, now a US Congressman).
I received an athletic scholarship to a high quality private school, and was an astro-physics major...
I received a draft notice, even though I had a student deferment. Rather than serve with conscripts, I enlisted into the Marine Corps.
My idealism was stomped out of me by a LARGE dose of reality. If I were to be in the fight (Vietnam), then I would be with those most capable of covering each other's ass.
I am now a REALIST.
Idealism is a fine thing, as long as you are secreted away within your little cocoonish womb of supremist/elitest microcosm, safe from the REAL world. Were you to be exposed to REALITY, your view would likely change, presuming that you are not the total coward who would hide from personal responsibility and individual accountability.
They say that there is no tetotaler more brutal than a reformed drunk, no prude more shrewish than a reformed whore: my attacks upon simplistic idealism come from the perspective of one who wandered about within an idealistic fog, unable to comprehend the TRUE nature of the world around me.
I have put away the childish idealism, and have matured into an adult who has survived the brutality of reality.
Fifteen years ago, there lived across the street from me a single school teacher who was the definitive gun-grabber, gun-hater, educated elitest supreme. For her, I was the epitome of all she hated within the world.
One night, I was awakened at about 3am by her frantic phone call; someone was breaking into her home, where she lived alone. She called me, rather than the police. When I came into her home, less than a minute later, I would (later) presume that she was most sincerely thankful that I came armed with more than my "good intentions", because the thug/punk who was on top of her and shreading her nightgown from her body appeared to have something on his mind other than a little "social intercourse"... Using the 12ga shotgun as a pugil-stick, I broke the buttstock against the back side of his head, and when he came to, the barrel was in his mouth. The school teacher was huddled in a corner, terrified from the rape that had almost been brought to fruition, attempting to cover herself and finally call the police.
Ask her about how justified I would have been had I pulled the trigger on the chambered round, and let the shotgun "cum" in the cretin's mouth.
Rapists cannot be "cured", regardless of the hopes and wishes of the touchie/feelie crew. Those who carry out premeditated and calculated MURDER (as differentiated from other forms of homicide and manslaughter), cannot be "cured". Once ANY feral animal has tasted human blood, it loses all fear of mankind.
And most definitely, YES, that applies to warriors who have served their nation. Difference between warriors and murderers is that warriors have an element of discipline, and murderers - by there actions - do NOT...
When a feral animal has taken a human life, you put it DOWN, without emotion, and without further consequence. You put it down for the safety and security of the populace in the area.
Idealism is a form of mental masturbation that would best be performed in private, because there are those who have experienced the things you only speculate about, and would gleefully humiliate you for your self-possessed moment of grandeur.
In your world, in your opinion, I am probably just another murderer, because I have taken human life, more than I can or care to remember. Your opinion, however, is worth no more than a bucket of cold piss to those who judge my actions, and are empowered to alter the course of the remainder of my life. To them, and to me, you present yourself as simply another child wanking away about things you don't really comprehend, because the territory is a strange and alien place which you have never visited...
Stay in a very safe place, a fortress of your delusions, and pray that those whom you choose as sheep-herders can protect you from the preditors amongst you...
[ 24-03-2002: Message edited by: Thanatos...AGAIN ]
Are you gonna get a mob together and lynch some negros that enter your whites only community?
Define "appropriate"? No, let me guess -- "justified," perchance? And even if you do cope up with a decent definition of "appropriate" how would it not be "appropriate" to take what I postulate would be the most efficient course of action in some cases i.e. incurable sociopaths, putting them to death at the cost of a tupp'ny bullet rather than keeping them alive, with attendant risk of escape, for thousands and thousands of taxpayers' money?
It is encouraging to see that you recognize that legality and morality are not equivalent and are often divergent.
"Now we live in the civilised world, we all agree every human has basic human rights, killing someone is therefore barbaric because it contradicted with the modern civilised human rights concept."
No, we don't all agree that every human has basic intrinsic inalienable rights. I, for one, don't. You want me to spell out why, as I did on another thread but days ago, or will you look it up and post your rebuttal here right away?
Oh, and you're wrong to decry something as "barbaric" simply because it doesn't sit well with the feelings of one group of people at the present time. By the same reasoning slavery was non-"barbaric" in the US about 150 years ago. You're slipping into the "legality == morality" fallacy again, having recognized it only paragraphs before...
Again... death penalty (called capital "punishment") is not so much a "punishment, as it IS a RECKONING, a settling of accounts due... And your postulate is "simple" only to those limited by their inbred perspective.
If all the world were sheep, then one would not need guard against the wolves. All of the liberal education of the sheep is worthy not more than a fart into a hurricane toward reasoning with the wolf.
The wolf is not a "civilized" entity, and regardless of how the sheep might entreat the wolf, the wolf simply takes what it covets, and the sheep is nothing more than an opportunity of ease to the wolf.
To them who are "reality challenged", the world is - and ever shall be - a very barbaric place.
Time to grow up, and set aside the idealistic wetdreams. The most of the world does not speak your language of touchie/feelie. As long as there are them who will deal with reality by avoiding it, there are so many more who would strip the delusional of ALL that the delusional possess, including life and person. While that might be just dandy for you, you are not shoving it down the throat of the rest of us who are not handicapped by your inability to cope with the true nature of the world.
I am told that heroin is a nice, fuzzy warm blanket, too, and a drug of choice for them who cannot cope with reality.
Before you take the leap, I will offer it up for you... Yes, I am but a half-step away from being one of the wolves - but an educated and disciplined wolf. Not prey, but preditor. Heed my words, because I understand the mind and rationale of the violent wolves far better than you ever could, ever would.
Without my own discipline, how would/could you protect yourself from me? You could not. Whatever I wanted from you, I would take with consumate ease, including your life. Should I lose my own constraint of discipline, I am one that you had best terminate with extreme prejudice, because there is no place on earth in which you would/could be safe.
Ever see the science fiction movie, Bladerunner, with Harrison Ford? It constantly amazes me that the "good" government did not "retire" us, as the bladerunner "retired" the replicants, when they retired us. War educates those who are participants that the laws and civilization are merely illusions, artificial constraints that simply do not exist but in the mind of the individual.
Getting the point, yet... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">