Poverty

Former Member

The UK currently has the best economic performance of any of the G7 countries but also has the highest poverty rate of the G7 and one of the worst in Europe.

What is wrong with the structure of our state and society that has allowed this discrepancy?

What do you think is the best way to tackle this problem?

Those who are from the US, what is the situation with regards to poverty there, what policies have been adopted?

Former Member

Originally posted by Toadborg:
<STRONG>The UK currently has the best economic performance of any of the G7 countries but also has the highest poverty rate of the G7 and one of the worst in Europe.

What is wrong with the structure of our state and society that has allowed this discrepancy?

What do you think is the best way to tackle this problem?

Those who are from the US, what is the situation with regards to poverty there, what policies have been adopted?</STRONG>

It isn't any one policy. The entire state ideology is to help those who want to help themselves, that's why they call Britain a meritocracy. It rewards those who work for it.
The best way, that I see to solve the problem is to make people work themselves out of poverty. The creation of incentives to those who are willing to work, for example tax discounts will encourage people to. Creation of jobs in unpopular sectors, although unpleasant will ensure more people going to work.

I think people should be given a second chance, especially those who are UNABLE to work for whatever reason. Those who are UNWILLING to work should be given an ultimatum of some sort. If they don't find a job then they are made to do unpaid community work until they do find a job. Their benefits are stopped, and they are rehoused in a resettlement centre (detention centre to you and me).
They aren't prisoners, but those who leave will find life on the outside without a job extremely difficult.

Former Member

Originally posted by Whowhere:
<STRONG>

It isn't any one policy. The entire state ideology is to help those who want to help themselves, that's why they call Britain a meritocracy. It rewards those who work for it.
The best way, that I see to solve the problem is to make people work themselves out of poverty. The creation of incentives to those who are willing to work, for example tax discounts will encourage people to. Creation of jobs in unpopular sectors, although unpleasant will ensure more people going to work.

I think people should be given a second chance, especially those who are UNABLE to work for whatever reason. Those who are UNWILLING to work should be given an ultimatum of some sort. If they don't find a job then they are made to do unpaid community work until they do find a job. Their benefits are stopped, and they are rehoused in a resettlement centre (detention centre to you and me).
They aren't prisoners, but those who leave will find life on the outside without a job extremely difficult.</STRONG>

It is a bit simplistic to say we can solve the problem povety to say let them work themselves out of it. It is true that alot of poor people work very hard for the little money they get and are used as cheap labour. It is also true that there are some discustingly rich people who are born into extreme wealth and have done nothing to deserve it. ie. the Royle Family.

I agree that people who refuse to work should be made to do some sort of community service. There are also alot of disabled people who could do some sort of work. An example is working from home in some way.

The only way we can get rid of poverty is though education. Every one must be able to access the same resorces and have the same oppituninies.

Former Member

The only thing we have done is impose higher and higher minumum wages. This makes life easier in the short term but in the long term if the wages are raised to quickly it increases the prices on everything and then some third world country can do the same thing for less money and then all the jobs in that sector are lost. That is the problem. For those who rely on my taxes to feed them, they should have to do community service work and clean up our cities. After all if I am paying for them to live they better at least be doing something to improve the world around them.

Anyone can get out of poverty. Everyone has the same access to the same education. Yes there are the privlaged that don't have to lift a finger to get it, but if you try hard enough you can succeed. It's all about your effort that and not having to have every new gaget that comes out.

Former Member

Originally posted by Another statistic:
<STRONG>

It is a bit simplistic to say we can solve the problem povety to say let them work themselves out of it. It is true that alot of poor people work very hard for the little money they get and are used as cheap labour. It is also true that there are some discustingly rich people who are born into extreme wealth and have done nothing to deserve it. ie. the Royle Family.

I agree that people who refuse to work should be made to do some sort of community service. There are also alot of disabled people who could do some sort of work. An example is working from home in some way.

The only way we can get rid of poverty is though education. Every one must be able to access the same resorces and have the same oppituninies.</STRONG>

I don't think my view was simplistic at all. It is the view I took when debating unemployment in my social policy lecture, and it is the viewpoint I will use for my module assesment.
Nobody has any reason to NOT work if they are given the oppotunity to do so. I'm proposing that instead of money/benefits given by the government to those who WONT work, the ones who do work should be given tax discounts, lower NI contributions e.t.c. It should be the state's job to help people sure, it should help them find employment. IF they are unwilling to take this aid, by simply sitting on their arses sapping benefits, then they should be MADE to work. Unpaid, in undesirable sectors. In return they will be given food, shelter and some sort of clothing allowance. If they refuse to work, then they are punished. They are evicted, kicked out onto the streets. If they think they will recieve handouts from the public it will be made into a criminal offence to beg, or give money to beggars.

Those who thinki they can escape this by going to prison will be greeted with prison officers, who have been told to assign the dirtiest tasks to those people.

I'm proposing a system, that is tough but fair. I'm not suggesting that those who CANT work be punished, I feel they should be given as much help as is available. I'm simply saying those who abuse the system should be made to repay society.

Former Member

Originally posted by Another statistic:
<STRONG>It is also true that there are some discustingly rich people who are born into extreme wealth and have done nothing to deserve it. ie. the Royle Family. </STRONG>

Yeah, an' all they do is sit on that damn sofa and watch TV all day. Tch, tch...


<STRONG>

The only way we can get rid of poverty is though education. Every one must be able to access the same resorces and have the same oppituninies.</STRONG>

I agree with Whowhere on this one. Most people DO have access to educational resources, but not many people actually use them to make opportunities for themselves. And that's surely what they should be doing. I don't want to come across all Thatcherite here, but I think too many people become complacent while on benefit money. Even the most well-educated people can be lacking in motivation. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> (Not me, of course.... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> )

I'm not saying 'scrap benefits for the unemployed', or even lower the benefit rate - that would be ludicrous - but just make it more advantageous financially-speaking for them to be working. Sounds fairly self-explanatory, job = more money, but maybe a higher minimum wage and a higher rate of tax for people in the uppermost wage bracket would work (go Charles Kennedy!).

Just a thought. <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

[ 19-03-2002: Message edited by: SconeBeast ]

Former Member

For many unemployed people, work is not appealing. If the only job you an get is in a factory, or a shop or whatever, at minimum wage..look at the facts. If you are unemployed you get housing paid for, benefits, many reduced things. As soon as you start working all this stops. So a minimum wage job full time works out at (4X35) £140.

Take tax off, take NI off, take rent/mortgage off, take council tax off, and what do you have left?

Possibly £10 or £20 more than you had when on benefits.

Former Member

I think that most unemployed people probably have the wrong skills, the switch from an industrial to a service based economy has left many people and areas in poverty.

Free education should be made available to adults as well as well as kids on a mass scale so that everyone can gain the skills needed to be employable.

There is also a need for housing redelevopment schemes in some particularly bad areas.....

Whowhere surely the current system already punishes those who are unwilling to look for work?

After all if I am paying for them to live they better at least be doing something to improve the world around them.

They already do Jr, the giving of benefits helps the economy in times of recession by acting as a buffer against a huge decrease in consumption....

Former Member

Originally posted by Toadborg:
I think that most unemployed people probably have the wrong skills, the switch from an industrial to a service based economy has left many people and areas in poverty.

This is quite true, the workforce needs to be re-educated. IT and interpersonal skills are more important to todays hi-tech companies than say, welding. Robots have mostly taken the place of manual labour in the manufacturing sector.

Free education should be made available to adults as well as well as kids on a mass scale so that everyone can gain the skills needed to be employable.

Hence schemes like Learn Direct.

There is also a need for housing redelevopment schemes in some particularly bad areas......

Too right. I have mentioned the dereliction in my area of Liverpool previously. Some perfectly good old houses have become uninhabitable because of neglect and vandalism. These houses need to be rebuilt and occupied. I can imagine there are some homeless people out there who would jump at the chance to take over a derelict house. Perhaps someone could retrain the homeless people as builders (one area of manual labour that is still very much in demand) and they could take over some of the houses they restore (at a discounted price), others being sold at a profit.

Whowhere surely the current system already punishes those who are unwilling to look for work?

Ah, yes, the new deal. It basically says "try to find work or you will lose your benefits."