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War!

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Maybe this should be in the politics forum, but it's just got on my nerves.

There was a huge anti-war march. How many pro-war marches have their been?

War is now inevitable there is no way it can be stopped. I would bet every penny I have that there will be a war. But everyone has known this for a long time, I mean, a month ago, they were calling the gulf war 'the first' even though there was no second.

Ah I don't know.

Does this mean that the people in Britain have no choice?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We've never had a choice, even from day one.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sooner the better I say.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: War!
    Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
    Does this mean that the people in Britain have no choice?

    Ofcourse it does! But's that's hardly anything new is it? :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think if people had a choice then there would be no war!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by jellygirl
    I think if people had a choice then there would be no war!

    And if people had common sense then there would :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But America don't randomly invade neighbouring countries (eg Kuwait), America have a democracy (even if you do think Bush is a wanker at least he can be gone soon, Saddam can't), America are basically more trustworthy than Saddam.

    Of course we shouldn't believe everything we see on TV but you can't use that argument for Saddam being a cute innocent guy - the history of his reign and the way he's behaved suggest that there's something suspicious going on.

    I think we should attack Iraq's regime and sort this all out ASAP before Saddam can get any worse, to be honest. We've already seen that peaceful methods aren't working.

    I'm scared though. MOst of us on this site have never really experienced war, so it's a terrifying prospect and I'm close to people in the army going/gone out there so it's dreadful. But I STILL think it has to be done.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    What I don't like is the fact that people believe everything they see, or rather hear on TV. How do you know he has weapons of mass distruction? What evidence have you seen?
    America has more than anyone, and they want to develop more. Isn't that slightly hypocritical?

    I agree with ya there J. Bush just wants to take over the world, wont that be nice :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On this topic, something that REALLY irritated me the other day -

    On a news show, can't remember which one, a woman in the audience stuck up her hand to ask a politician a question and said...

    'I think it's ridiculous going to war! The lives of myself and others here in the UK will be ruined!!'

    It shocked me. I couldn't believe that she was so SELFISH and it made me sick - HER life ruined?!?!?! WHat about the hundreds of thousands of soldiers out there, what about the innocent people in Iraq who could lose their lives? And she thinks that by sitting happily back here in the UK and being a tad bit worried about terrorist attacks, her life is being ruined?!?!

    *fume* *fume* *fume*

    Some people!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kiezo


    And if people had common sense then there would :p
    :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For the record, just because I think we should go to war, doesn't mean I believe all of Bush/Blairs reasons for doing so.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It'd be a bit more interesting if Bush and Blair were prepared to die fighting for whatever crap they're fighting for.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What really gets me is the way that Blair is now starting to look like a rabbit caught in the headlights all because he decided, for whatever reason, to hang onto Bush's coat-tails when he should have perhaps based his decision making on what the people in this country really want instead of commiting our troops to a war without showing us any evidence to back up his beliefs....He is probably haunted by that old Thatcher quote 'the lady's not for turning' and now can see no way out despite the fact that Turkey, France, Russia, his cabinet and many others are totally unconvinced by his arguments for war.

    A few weeks ago people were saying that there was no way France would actually Veto - they will be proven wrong. Now on the news they are saying that the resolution won't even get to a vote. I guess this is so that Bush can just storm in there regardless of UN vote.
    Today they said that Saddam had to do certain things to prove there was no threat. one of those things was to admit that he had been hiding weapons of mass destruction. ...Now, I don't know if he has them or not but perhaps he hasn't, do you think he'll admit to hiding them if he doesn't have them?

    In a way I am very cynical about all this...I remember the fear I had during 'the first' Gulf war - thinking the world was going to be blown up, I remember how I felt the day September the 11th happened, I remember the fear I felt when Afghanistan was invaded and yet we didn't get bombed, we didn't suffer.....however, thousands of innocent people in other countried DID!!

    Juat like the Vietnam war it is essential that people get out there and make their feelings known!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bad seed
    It'd be a bit more interesting if Bush and Blair were prepared to die fighting for whatever crap they're fighting for.

    :yes: I agree totally there! And I'm sure Tony Blair would love for his sons to gon and fight for their country wouldnt he? :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Faith


    :yes: I agree totally there! And I'm sure Tony Blair would love for his sons to gon and fight for their country wouldnt he? :rolleyes:

    But instead he gets given a gas proof jag (as reported in The Times, anyway).

    His family will be taken care of.

    :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by jellygirl
    I think if people had a choice then there would be no war!

    Oh, but if the people had a choice on so many things.

    The reason they don't, is that most people, and indeed most academics etc do not understand that this war has nothing to do with what we are told it is, all wars are consequences of massive economic and strategic plans and developments, which most people outside the inner political and military circles would not understand even if Blair could afford to explain it to them.

    So instead they make up some crap about WMD etc, and pump out some propaganda. Just like all governments have done and will continue to do, because they have to.

    Everyone in this forum will benefit from having a war, and everyone would lose if we don't. Our way of life depends on it.

    :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    TWO MILLION people walked through london in protest to the war....Tony Blair turned his head....that says we don't have much of a choice if you ask me...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac
    TWO MILLION people walked through london in protest to the war....Tony Blair turned his head....that says we don't have much of a choice if you ask me...

    So what? Who says the public should allowed to have a big say in the matter, none of us are really that informed on the situation.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by chaos_insomniac
    TWO MILLION people walked through london in protest to the war....Tony Blair turned his head....that says we don't have much of a choice if you ask me...

    Woah. A whole two million? :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah and a fair few thousand will die a horrible death in Iraq....but hey - its only numbers, as ling as I'm ok jack.!!!

    The way the American Government is acting you'd think they were under the ill informed belief that they ruled the world or something
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its the job of elected leaders to make decisions based on the evidence presented too them. the evidence is not presented to us for many reasons, because it would compromise security being the main one but there are many others, we elect them to act in what they perceive as our best interests, not what we want at the time.

    we live in an elective dictatorship as lord hailsham famously described it, ie the elected leaders can and will do what they want in their term of office and then at election time we judge how they did.

    we must trust them, we cant overrule them by claiming that democracy allows us to do so.

    effectively by electing them we are giving them the status of parents.

    they are in a position where they must juggle many many different factors not just what we want in the short term.

    if your parents let you do whatever you want when you were a kid would you be better off for it? i doubt it. similarely with government.

    im not saying taht people shouldnt express their views. but i dont think that just because 2 million people marched against war tony blair should back down, if he genuinly believes that he is right to go to war.

    its his job.

    if he is wrong then it will be catastrophic. but none of us are in a position to really judge whether he is or he isnt. he is the only one to decide that as he is hte only one in a position to do so. he must do what he believes is in our best interests, whether we can see it or not
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shukes


    So what? Who says the public should allowed to have a big say in the matter, none of us are really that informed on the situation.

    Hmmm that would be democracy then :eek2:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kiezo


    Woah. A whole two million? :rolleyes:

    Yeah, which happens to be the largest protest in Birtish political history.....WOAAAAAAAAAAH.

    :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by octopus of doom
    its the job of elected leaders to make decisions based on the evidence presented too them. the evidence is not presented to us for many reasons, because it would compromise security being the main one but there are many others, we elect them to act in what they perceive as our best interests, not what we want at the time.

    we live in an elective dictatorship as lord hailsham famously described it, ie the elected leaders can and will do what they want in their term of office and then at election time we judge how they did.

    we must trust them, we cant overrule them by claiming that democracy allows us to do so.

    effectively by electing them we are giving them the status of parents.

    they are in a position where they must juggle many many different factors not just what we want in the short term.

    if your parents let you do whatever you want when you were a kid would you be better off for it? i doubt it. similarely with government.

    im not saying taht people shouldnt express their views. but i dont think that just because 2 million people marched against war tony blair should back down, if he genuinly believes that he is right to go to war.

    its his job.

    if he is wrong then it will be catastrophic. but none of us are in a position to really judge whether he is or he isnt. he is the only one to decide that as he is hte only one in a position to do so. he must do what he believes is in our best interests, whether we can see it or not

    Well said :yes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J


    Like all the development contracts they are getting ready to re-build Iraq? It's keeps the economy going, so it must be ok.

    Well yeah they're part and parcel- and I don't pretend I know or understand the wests strategies etc in the world, but in the Gulf its likely that its along the lines of major powers (china, russia, USA) struggling for control in the region as a whole, and trying to get toe holds there, and also competing with the local population and rise of extremist Islam. But my guess is oil has a lot to do with it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by carlito


    Hmmm that would be democracy then :eek2:

    Not really... the public aren't here to vote over how the country is run, they're here to vote for a government who can run the country however they pleased.

    Why should the uninformed ignorant masses be allowed to meddle in such a serious situation? Oh yeah, they're not, and a bloody good job well too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kiezo


    Compared to the other 55 million people in the UK :rolleyes:

    Yep, they were all on a pro war march in an undisclosed location.

    :o
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by octopus of doom
    its the job of elected leaders to make decisions based on the evidence presented too them. the evidence is not presented to us for many reasons, because it would compromise security being the main one but there are many others, we elect them to act in what they perceive as our best interests, not what we want at the time.

    we live in an elective dictatorship as lord hailsham famously described it, ie the elected leaders can and will do what they want in their term of office and then at election time we judge how they did.

    we must trust them, we cant overrule them by claiming that democracy allows us to do so.

    effectively by electing them we are giving them the status of parents.

    they are in a position where they must juggle many many different factors not just what we want in the short term.

    if your parents let you do whatever you want when you were a kid would you be better off for it? i doubt it. similarely with government.

    im not saying taht people shouldnt express their views. but i dont think that just because 2 million people marched against war tony blair should back down, if he genuinly believes that he is right to go to war.

    its his job.

    if he is wrong then it will be catastrophic. but none of us are in a position to really judge whether he is or he isnt. he is the only one to decide that as he is hte only one in a position to do so. he must do what he believes is in our best interests, whether we can see it or not


    Er yes...but a prime minister does not act alone...he seeks the advice of his cabinet and if members of the cabinet who have sse the 'evidence' have stood up and questioned the process then perhaps we should be a wee bit worried...also.....your logic should also apply to other pplitical organisations like the UN for example,...so should we accept the fact that Bush would like to ignore the fact that they can't pass a UN resolution but they are just going to start a war anyway?

    Its a much much much more complicated issue that accepting the UK government as our parents. there are so many inconsistencies and corruptions and lies in this whole affair and that is why 2 million people (And they were just the ones in the UK and just the ones that could make it) stood up and said 'we need to know more'!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shukes


    Not really... the public aren't here to vote over how the country is run, they're here to vote for a government who can run the country however they pleased.

    Why should the uninformed ignorant masses be allowed to meddle in such a serious situation? Oh yeah, they're not, and a bloody good job well too.

    Well they do have a say because if they feel strongly enough theyll vote him out at the next election over it.democracy.

    actually no...what I reckon is we should just have this one guy who knows best yeah...and he should tell us what hes going to do and not care what anyone thinks about it...and make all the decisions...and no one should question it...

    maybe he should wear a military uniform and have a black moustache as well!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny



    Er yes...but a prime minister does not act alone...he seeks the advice of his cabinet and if members of the cabinet who have sse the 'evidence' have stood up and questioned the process then perhaps we should be a wee bit worried...also.....your logic should also apply to other pplitical organisations like the UN for example,...so should we accept the fact that Bush would like to ignore the fact that they can't pass a UN resolution but they are just going to start a war anyway?

    Its a much much much more complicated issue that accepting the UK government as our parents. there are so many inconsistencies and corruptions and lies in this whole affair and that is why 2 million people (And they were just the ones in the UK and just the ones that could make it) stood up and said 'we need to know more'!!

    i didnt state any opinion on whether we should go to war.

    to be honest im undecided (yeah i know sitting on the fence blah blah blah) and im glad i dont have to decide.

    i was just addressing the people that said that the country dont want it so he shouldnt do it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by carlito


    Yeah, which happens to be the largest protest in Birtish political history.....WOAAAAAAAAAAH.

    :rolleyes:

    Compare the 2 million people that took part in 'the largest protest in British political history', to the other 55 million people in the UK.

    Re-Edit: This post should be up there :eek2:
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