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Corporal Punishment in Schools

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am very sorry to here that, did you consider it to be smacking, did the person doing it or did the authorities consider to be smacking?

    Or maybe you just don't want to talk about it. <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i never said anything as i was taught by my parents smacking was acceptable. they smacked me using theyre hands, and using implements, its taking me 16 years to realise it was abuse, and to start healing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by sara120:
    <STRONG>i never said anything as i was taught by my parents smacking was acceptable. they smacked me using theyre hands, and using implements, its taking me 16 years to realise it was abuse, and to start healing.</STRONG>
    Is smacking abuse?
    Are you American?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no im british. my parents smacked me excessively. and they used implements to hit me, which most definitely counts as physical abuse.

    if you say giving a child is a smack is not abuse, please define the term 'smacking'.
    i see it as the intentional infliction of pain upon a child, for whatever reason that is done, inflicting pain upon children is not right.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I totally disagree with you. You are over-reacting. If you are talking about physical abuse then fair enough, but smacking is not abuse. You should not use the terms interchangeably, otherwise you will end up accusing half the parents in this country of child abuse.

    I assumed you were American because you seem to be dealing with the usual yank melodramatics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by sara120:
    <STRONG> my parents smacked me excessively.
    </STRONG>


    Im pretty sure thats pretty obviously abuse...My dad used to give me a whack with the flat of his hand on the back of my legs when i did summit wrong as a kid...It hurt like a fucker for a couple of mins but IT WORKED.

    You said it yourself, your parents were excessive. You obviously already know the definition.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish:
    <STRONG>Well I totally disagree with you. You are over-reacting. If you are talking about physical abuse then fair enough, but smacking is not abuse. You should not use the terms interchangeably, otherwise you will end up accusing half the parents in this country of child abuse.

    I assumed you were American because you seem to be dealing with the usual yank melodramatics.</STRONG>

    I cant believe youve just accused her of being melodramatic. theres a difference between an occasional tap or smack and excessive smacking with IMPLEMENTS, for fucks sake, i would never ever do that to my child and i would say that hitting a child with an implement was definately abuse. and also i would say that excessive smacking of any kind is abuse too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite:
    <STRONG>
    i would say that hitting a child with an implement was definately abuse. and also i would say that excessive smacking of any kind is abuse too.</STRONG>


    Captain obvious to the rescue... <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite:
    <STRONG>I cant believe youve just accused her of being melodramatic. theres a difference between an occasional tap or smack and excessive smacking with IMPLEMENTS, for fucks sake, i would never ever do that to my child
    </STRONG>
    She hasn't said what these mysterious "implements" were. I was smacked as a child, both with a hand like Baldy, and a slipper. It wasn't abuse and I object to the implication that it was.

    I have every right to say she is being melodramatic - because she is.

    If she is talking about physical child abuse then that is a totally different issue, and I will not allow them to be discussed as being the same.

    Whether you want to smack your child or not is irrelevant.
    <STRONG>i would say that hitting a child with an implement was definately abuse. and also i would say that excessive smacking of any kind is abuse too.</STRONG>
    By definition, anything "excessive" is not acceptable <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">. "Excessive" smacking is not the same as common-or-garden smacking because it is, by definition, excessive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    neither you nor I know what went on with Sara120 and her parents, you dont have the right to say she was over reacting unless you were there. I do believe that hitting with implements is abuse, ok so your parents did it to you a bit and youre ok with it, im sure they didnt do it excessively to you, but sara says her parents did it excessively to her which is a different kettle of fish.
    A lot of it is probably to do with them being a different generation. violence isnt as socially acceptable as it was, theres not a lot sara could do about the way she was treated by her parents now, but if it was done nowadays it would be a different matter, especially if she lived in scotland.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>You can't put quantitative guidelines down but I think teachers and social workers can realise the difference.</STRONG>

    A quantitative guideline that distinguishes corporal punishment from abuse probably will not change the rate of either, however I would not oppose the making of such a guideline.

    I’m curious to know what some people consider abuse and what others don’t. Sometimes the line seems blurred.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kentish - smacking with a slipper IS physical abuse. smacking with an implement IS.

    however much your going to say im being melodramatic i know what i went through, and i know it screwed me up so much i was cutting myself everyday and trying to end my life frequently. thankfully i aint there anymore.

    now just one example for you.
    i was 15, it was 3rd december 2000, pretty hard to forget that day.
    i needed to use the computer to finish printing off my RE coursework due in the next day, my dad wouldnt let me go back in the computer cos he said i was being selfish and id had enough time on it already today. i called him 'fucking bastard', and then stormed off towards my room as you do. my dad chased me, grabbed me in such a way i couldnt get away. he then proceeded to spend near on 5 minutes smacking me, and finally called me a baby and walked off. now tell me that isnt physical or emotional abuse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But thats completely different to smacking purely as discipline and you know it, therefore why should smacking be banned?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by sara120:
    <STRONG>kentish - smacking with a slipper IS physical abuse. smacking with an implement IS.
    </STRONG>
    So I was physically abused then?
    roflol <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
    My parents hardly ever smacked me (just goes to show how effective it is <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> ). When they did, they didn't do it for the pleasure of hitting small children <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">.

    If you were physically abused then I feel genuinely sorry for you, but not all parents use smacking as a form of abuse, and not all children react in the same way that you have. (Not all children call their dads "fucking bastards" either for that matter).

    Smacking is not physical abuse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish:
    <STRONG>[/qb]
    (Not all children call their dads "fucking bastards" either for that matter).

    Smacking is not physical abuse.</STRONG>

    Just what I was thinking...Smacking musta worked for me..I cant even bring myself to say shit in front of my parents, even at 22. Calling them fucking bastards, i would never even think of doing that.

    You cant possibly say that smacking with a slipper is physical abuse..Its very different in every situation...If i hit a kid full power with a hard slipper then thats a lot different to a few light smacks on the arse with my mums fabric slipper.

    What you dad did does sound like abuse, nobody here has ever said any different.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Smacking should only be used among consenting adults... if they are into that kind of thing. Kids shouldnt be hit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Lanni:
    <STRONG>It would be criminal to use this type of punishment in prisons, people would scream, “cruel and unusual punishment,” however it is still legal in schools?</STRONG>

    "Cruel and unusual punishment"?

    Allow me to quote:
    Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers:

    Dubois had mused aloud, "I do not understand objections to 'cruel and unusual' punishment. While a judge should be benevolent in purpose, his awards should cause the criminal to suffer, else there is no punishment -- and pain is the basic mechanism built into us by millions of years of evolution which safeguards us by warning when something threatens our survival. Why should society refuse to use such a highly perfected survival mechanism?

    [...]

    "As for 'unusual,' punishment must be unusual or it serves no purpose." He then pointed his stump at another boy. What would happen if a puppy were spanked every hour?"

    "Uh... probably drive him crazy!"

    "Probably. It certainly will not teach him anything. How long has it been since the principal of this school last had to switch a pupil?"

    "Uh, I'm not sure. About two years. The kid that swiped -- "

    "Never mind. Long enough. It means that such punishment is so unusual as to be significant, to deter, to instruct."

    Corporal punishment, used properly, is a highly effective instrument. "Used properly" does not mean indiscriminately, or as the only means of punishment. Like all things, it should be used as and when necessary. And there are times when it is not only necessary but also the most effective tool available. To arbitrarily proscribe its use on the grounds of squeamishness (which is what concerns about "trauma," if this punishment is administered in the proper manner that I advocate) is sheer folly.

    [ 30-05-2002: Message edited by: MacKenZie ]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by suave:
    <STRONG>Smacking should only be used among consenting adults... if they are into that kind of thing. Kids shouldnt be hit.</STRONG>

    ROTFLMAO

    Hiting only teaches children that hiting is ok...!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MacKenZie:
    <STRONG>

    Corporal punishment, used properly, is a highly effective instrument.</STRONG>

    'Tis a great "punctuation mark"... like an exclamation point. Should be used to get their attention, not as the punishment... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos...AGAIN:
    <STRONG>

    'Tis a great "punctuation mark"... like an exclamation point. Should be used to get their attention, not as the punishment... <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    Nice analogy. <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> I think that corporal punishment is actually very rarely necessary -- if one laws down the law early enough. If, early on, the child learns the meaning of the word "No!" and the parents are sensible enough to explain rules ("You go to bed at 7 because at your age you need such-and-such an amount of sleep so you can do [whatever] the next day. Doesn't that seem sensible?") where's the problem?

    Of course, corporal punishment may be abused -- so can anything, by anyone who really wants to.

    I would also say that beyond a certain point the punishment is all internal -- perhaps this is when the child becomes an adult? When the person is capable of sticking by their own moral code, enforcing it on themselves?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mackenzie, don’t get me wrong.

    I agree with the punctuation mark analogy, I just do not agree with the use of corporal punishment in schools.

    If used in prisons, people will cry cruel and unusual punishment. Nevertheless, I do not disagree with the use of corporal punishment in prisons. However, the purpose of that statement was that I do not understand why something that is deemed cruel and unusual in prisons while it is acceptable in schools.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Was administered 88 ass-wacks within 4 months...

    ...at age 9.

    Because my mind strayed from the teach's attention. Later, many years later, I wrote that teach', and asked her why it was so important to her to humiliate and harm me in front o' me' peers. What she never knew was my mind was always thinking too fast. Listening to her only held me back. I needed ta' move forward...constantly.

    The teach' never responded.

    A power thang'.

    No doubt.

    A bit o' guilt too.
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