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IMO George W has one strong skill that carries him beyond the limits of his own abilities; he has been able to put together a robust administration and many wise heads to advise him and cover his guffs.
Many of course were also his father's advisors eg Colin Powell.
After all, I do keep hearing that the powers that be within the White House are 'The Administration'. As such it is seemingly a 'team-effort', with George W merely at the top of the food chain.
So I would reason that the president is only as good as his administration. And how good is administration? Well that's up for debate! <IMG alt="image" SRC="cool.gif" border="0">
Bush himself is being carried. He got there because of his dad and his contacts, not his intellectual ability. And we'll see if that matters at the next election...
Londonbaby - listen - the Pakis haven't tossed us out of Pakiland so Im thinking the speech didnt offend anyone in power. Jeez this is just as bad as when the PC bullies flipped out when Bush referred to the effort as a crusade and offended more when the operation was called "Infinite Justice."
Get over it - he's trying to fight a war - and a damned fine job he's doing too. You say theres no real comparison to us losing so many people and what he says - I disagree - I beleive his words and thoughts are in facta reflection of what is on everyones mind - to hell with those offended.
Pakiland? I don't know if you were trying to be funny or whether you actually think there is a country called 'Pakiland'. Either way it's highly offensive.
He's a Texan, Old Texas, and speaks the language of that region...be assured, if it were his intent to insult or offend there are much better insults in our, US, vocabulary that would clearly cary the message. In US as we use the engrish language paki...or pakis is the people of Pakistan...nothing more.
Pakistan is a big part of the current problem but it is probable that we, US, will let India polish them off if things get too much out of control.
As for pc terms...I do make an effort not to offend anyone on these boards...not to be pe but rather to be polite in someone elses home...even so...those who want to be offended will!
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DevilMan,
We're all for free-flowing debate on thesite boards but we won't put up with offensive stuff like that. If you think we're being censorious, too bad; read the terms and conditions you agreed to when you signed up.
Dominic
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I used to have some preference for my country, but only as as long as it was the only one I knew about... so up to age something-small! :P As I've grown up I've become ever more internationalist and cosmopolitan: I rate some countries as being better than others, but my ultimate loyalty goes to the entire human race. (I guess that if we ever made contact with another species I'd expand that to include all life everywhere. *shrugs* )
Ok you guys have blown this way out of proportion - All Im saying is this - We havent been tossed out of Pakistan over the comments and until now, I havent heard that much complaining about Bush either from the news or from Pakistanis (I am a city EMT and interact with them daily here in Boston) If anything, they wholeheartedly support the guy.
Additionally, its obvious he didnt have a racist meaning when he said it - to an American, its a term of endearment - maybe not the most appropriate thing to say when addressing the international community but - he is from Texas.
DO I think he's stupid - not in the least. Yales a tough school - even if youre rich and connected you still have to pass. Its hard work being a businessman and politician and he's excelled in that regard. He s from the South and the South is differnt then the rest of the US - they talk different and have a simpler view of the world - doesnt make them stupid though.
So to all offended by my use of the word Pakis - sorry, but like Bush, its not meant to be mean, simply a diminutive if not endearing term for our new allies.
My allegiance lies with my country before and above all others. Internationalism and or extraterrestrialism was never something I beleived in - USA first, everyone else second. Human race? not me - I barely trust it as a whole.
Ive travelled extensively - the thing that keeps me happy as an American is that every time I leave, Im happy when I get back.
I think we can only judge george bush on what he has done so far, and therefore i think he has been a superb president, i for one was convinced on sept 11th a nuke was on its way, but over the course he has handled the situation superbly. So what if he says paki's ? as long as he doesn't offend people from pakistan then what the hell is the problem ? He must be judged on critical political / presidential decisions not the odd politically uncorrect word here and there. His understanding of other countries is poor, but then thats america for you, he just represents his countrymen, and if they support him, great, its no buisness of ours.
Excuses? naah - I didnt even vote for him - I voted for Harry Brown - I felt both he and Gore were not representative of my beleifs so I voted Libertarian. I do support my president now - not on blind faith, but because he seems to be doing the right things so far.
Connections - no I dont think they had much to do with his election or his progress - he represented himself as a better "man of the people" if you will and has continued to do so. As far as skills, he was a 2 term Governor of Texas and honestly I cant recall him ever saying he was lacking in "skills."
All I mean by USA first is that I devote my alleigance to my own people before all else - your supposition he'd nuke everyone and we'd follow is absurd.
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His policies may suck, and Rumsfeld may prove to be a little gung-ho but GWB had lead the country well...
As for his 'paki' comment, well it was illadvised and he would never refer to the polish as polacks which would be a better comparison to the one used earlier (poles..). However, LondonGurl seems to have missed the fact that Pakistan hasn't complained, if they had been offended, don't you think they would have said something???
One thing I would like to ask, when GWB fell over whilst watching a sports game, does anyone buy the story that he choked on a pretzel and passed out? Maybe I'm just too suspicious but if he had passed out whilst choking he would still have had the blockage in his windpipe and would still not be able to breathe... This is a guy, apparently on his own watching a 'football' match. Most blokes will have a beer and of course GWB has a history - is it really beyond belief that he had a couple too many and tripped? It wouldn't exactly look too good if he admitted to that would it? And the story of his mum telling him to chew his food, and the present he sent the press corps (a bag of pretzels, guffaw guffaw) just add to the spin in a way that the Labour Party can only dream about...just a theory...
A conspiracy theory is all very well, unless you are giving him more credit than is due.
They could have come up with a better reason than the pretzel. Like tripping on the carpet...or anything else! He went down in my estimation after that. It made him look pathetic.
Hes what? about 50 years old? Hes not a young man. I have choked on food many times, as have ALL of you, youre fucking liars if you deny it. Several medical professionals have said its perfectly plausible to faint from what he described.
Christ, hes only human.
But it is unusual to pass out.
This one occurrence says nothing about his intelligence, or leadership ability. I've already siad that he is very presidential, and good at it. But it doesn't look good.
Speaking as the quasi medical expert (Emergency Medical Technicain - I) I can tell you I have personally been to many a call where someone has passed out from choking on food - not as rare as you may beleive but we do recieve calls of this nature rather frequently.
Usually the patient lapses from consciousness for a brief period 30 seconds - to as much as 2 minutes - its beleived its the unconscious shock of choking that leads up to it.
Just an objective opinion.
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It doesn't happen, so don't try and blind us with science.
Was that just a typo there Kentish? Surely youre not denying he actually choked now? I have choked on a bagel before, along with toast and a few other bread related products.
I have choked and the food has been coughed up everytime. I assume the pretzel bit was wedged in his throat pretty hard and was only dislodged when he fell over and whacked his head.
I cant think of a single reason why they would lie about this. Unless of course Rumsfeld got a bit rough one night <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
I can't think of a reason why they'd lie about it either, but the whole thing does make him look a bit pathetic.
The pretzel incident is a very minor story in the George W Bush story, so lets not make it dominate the thread.
Wow! a med student - well allow me to please bow down and kiss your ass! Damn boy - its obvious you've never spent much time around a prehospital setting - its pompous attitudes like that that make guys like me really have field days in hospitals with "experts" like you.
Take a trip on a rig with me sometime and you can tell me exactly how I've blinded you with science.
Blinded with science - wasnt that a Thomas Dolby song from the early 80s?
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And I may be a mere medical student, but that deosn't mean I know nothing about prehospital medicine. I actually take my course seriously and try to maintain a reasonably extensive knowledge of medicine, not just the text-book stuff.
As do I Kentish - admittedly a prehospital rescue guy won't have the same knowledge as a med student but damn we do more work on average...but I digress.
You don't have to believe me but I know what I see out there and I say while not an every day occurence, its certainly not as uncommon as you might think - I have seen a few instances where minor choking has in fact resulted in the loss of consciousness.
I have a feeling youre suggesting W passed out on some perhaps chemical basis - if thats the case, just come out and say it.
Certainly you would NOT suggest that the teenager was lacking in expertise and experience from which to pontificate, now would you??? <IMG alt="image" SRC="eek.gif" border="0"> ANYTHING which could be worth learning, he must already know... <IMG alt="image" SRC="wink.gif" border="0">
We are talking about an American. A country where more people suffer injuries from mattresses than gun-shot wounds.
It would be a delicious irony if the most powerful man on earth was toppled by something as small and insignificant as a pretzel, and not a global terrorist. I personally think he got a bit pissed. Surely he shouldn't have been alone anyway? Where were his aides, in case GWB had a pretzel related emergency? Or god forbid one involving the sofa! <IMG alt="image" SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
But I agree we have flogged that to death now.
[Edited because something went wrong 1st time]
[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Kentish ]
Ha ha - beleive me a med student telling me I'm somehow wrong is something I deal with on a daily basis. They say it of course, until I take them on the ambulance for a shift - after 10 hours, all the "knowledge" they have is suddenly trumped. This guy's no different.
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