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Language?!?! What's that?!?!

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
Ok, been thinking about this for a bit now.

Posters in poster land, I am going to be asking your opinion on language (again, I know...) but about a few things really to do with social aspects of language, particularly Scots (since I'm a Scot), but other dialects/accents are open for discussion.

Do you see Scots as a dialect (like Yorkshire, Cockney, Liverpudlian etc) or as a language (like German, Spanish etc), or something else? What about different varieties of Scots, Urban Scots, etc? What are your reasons for doing so? Are your perceptions of people altered in any way when you speak to someone who has a strong regional accent such as Cockney or Scots? Does accent/dialect carry any other social information for you?

Discuss :D

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As far as im concerned Scots speak English with a Scottish accent. I dont pay attention to your regional dialects. You all speak "scottish" as far as im concerned!

    I dont alter my views about anyone by the way they speak. I talk weird and i hope people dont think differently of me when i open me mouth!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    id say dialect because its understandable but a bit different. if u know what i mean.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd say Scots is a dialect, not a language of its own. Its just English really, but with our accents and slang.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think language (Well Glaswegian certainly is:p )
    xxx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Meh, fair enough, I understand what you're talking about, but if I said something like,

    Ae weet forenicht i' the yow trummle
    I saw yon antrin thing
    A watergaw wi' its chiterin licht
    Ayont the on-ding;
    An I thocht o' the last wild look ye gied
    Afore ye deed.

    Which is in Scots (lallans), so it should be understandable, would you still say it's a dialect? Consider that Scots has a massive literary body, both historical and modern literature (a thing other dialects don't have), and has a massive population who speak some form of Scots, would you still say its a dialect. Based on these things alone, I would say it's a language.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    aint that welsh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No dear, it's Scots. Honest.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe... a variation of English?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mmm, maybe, but c'mon, support your argument! If you look at the history of both languages, both come from the same root language, but diverge from two separate dialects of the same language. One became Scots, the other became English. Some varities of Scots are variations on English, particularly Scottish Standard English, but expressions like pinkie (little finger), oxter (armpit) and sorehead (headache) are all Scottish, you'll not find many english people using them...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I tend to think of a language as something with its own rules, different from other languages, for example I'd say English and French are different languages. But with English and Scots, I think they're variations because Scottish people still pretty much talk English, but with different slang words like the ones you mentioned. Its easy enough for a Scottish person to talk to an English person, they might just have to talk a bit clearer or whatever, whereas for an English speaking person talking to a French person, one of them would need to have actually learned the other's language. So I'd say that sometimes Scots seems like ALMOST a different language, but not quite. Yes, its got more to it than most other regional dialects do, but at the end of the day we're just speaking English, but with a different accent and some slang.

    I know I might have been able to argue my point better, but I'm just not in the mood for a heated debate or whatever...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm just not in the mood for a heated debate or whatever...

    C'mon goddammit! That's what this whole post was about, to get people thinking and debating again! Too many random, useless threads about! Anyway, separate languages ye say? Ok, Norwegian and Danish are two separate languages, with two separate nations, but the two languages they speak are virtually identical. Same with Scots. One reason that Scots doesn't have recognised status as a language is because of the political situation in the UK. Bah! And Scots (not Scottish standard english) does have its own grammar and stuff, some is the same as English, but not all. But English has similar grammar to french, some german, dutch, etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's a dialect, or a regional variation. Here in Wales we have our own language...it's called Welsh ... in Scotland its Gaelic...

    what happened though was various people (The English, the Dutch etc) marched into the regions and stopped the people there from speaking their own language. In Wales this happened not so long ago..Post-Viking anyway.
    Kids were not allowed to speak Welsh in school, Welsh books and Bibles were destroyed, towns were re-named.

    Its only through the efforts of the Welsh language society and some politicians that we even have dual sinage, for a long time we didn't.

    The easiest way to fuch a ciountry up is to destroy its language and culture which is what English people did to Wales Ireland and Scotland.

    I AM English by the way...but I still think it stinks!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Scots is it's own unique dialect full of colloquialisms, it's more relaxed than fluent English because it originates from Gaelic, and it has evolved into something more English since the English settled up here, and we settled down there. It has been this way for centuries. I couldn't state why that is, or why people all over the world have different languages or words, but it's the way things are. Language evolves into something more fluid, rather than too many syllables, pronounciations, etc.

    Hence the Cockney, Liverpudllian, Welsh, Irish, and the Glasgow banter. lmao. We are all interconnected now since we merge more than before, but Scotch in itself has just fallen away from it's roots to an extent. For example, take Spain, since it has been dominated by British Culture, the majority of it's land is overrun by UK holiday makers, and has became more English than ever.. It's just timing making change on something that once was.

    ...methinks someone's had a recent assignment..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what happened though was various people (The English, the Dutch etc) marched into the regions and stopped the people there from speaking their own language
    Surely it was the dominance of English that stopped people speaking their own native language? And while I take the point about Gaelic being the language of Scotland, there is the distinction between Scots and Gaelic, they're not the same thing.
    more relaxed than fluent English because it originates
    from Gaelic,
    No it's not, and this is a common misconception. Scots (like Glaswegian) originates from a dialect of Old English (northumbrian dialect) and developed from there. That's why it is different. Scots has picked up some vocabulary from Gaelic like ceilidh, scian dhu etc. Scots has had more influence from England due to the union of the crown/parliamant, and the continual English appearance in Scotland.
    Scotch in itself has just fallen away

    Scotch?!? That's the drink!!! See this is the thing. I believe Scots is a language, but it will never achieve this status until Scots start to believe that what they speak isn't a dialect of English. By accepting that we're saying our 'language' doesn't deserve thae label of language, and that we should be content just using English. If people in Scotland don't get their finger out, before you know it we'll all be speaking English...
    ...methinks someone's had a recent assignment..
    And you would be right :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I was right about one thing. :rolleyes:
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