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America And Prisons.

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat


    Don't think the WHO was around in the 18th Century. ;)
    ok greeny i'll hold my hands up. no one has died from using cannabis for around 250 years. and it was two injun stoners firing arrows at each other.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I object to the death penalty but I dont think thats the worst part of the US justice system.

    I know a bloke who has been so badly treated it makes me sick.
    Did you know that most prisoners in the US only get soap, not even a bloody tooth brush! and if you dont have people on the outside you get bearly enough clothes to keep you warm. What is that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda

    I know a bloke who has been so badly treated it makes me sick.
    Did you know that most prisoners in the US only get soap, not even a bloody tooth brush! and if you dont have people on the outside you get bearly enough clothes to keep you warm. What is that?

    And where does this information come from, bongbudda?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    ok greeny i'll hold my hands up. no one has died from using cannabis for around 250 years. and it was two injun stoners firing arrows at each other.

    OK, MR. A different case. I knew a young lady who died in 1977 from cannabis use. She drove her car head on into another vehicle (which happened to be driven by my best friend). Since drunken driving incidents are charged against alcohol. I figure this one has to be charged against cannabis.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Prison should be about rehabilitation & education as much as about punishment. Sadly in many countries the former is overlooked in favour of the latter.

    And it is a shame because the more emphasis is put in treating prisoners decently and giving them education and rehabilitation opportunities, the less chances of re-offending.

    Before anyone starts, not everyone should be given this treatment. Murderers, rapists or other dangerous prisoners are obviously on a different level. But blokes who are in for theft, drug offences, fraud and the like have a good chance of redeeming themselves and acquire skills to help them find a job once their sentences are over.

    I always thought denying the less dangerous or serious prisoners private time with their partners for sex is the lowest of the low. It would do wonders to reduce sexual assaults inside as well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OK, MR. A different case. I knew a young lady who died in 1977 from cannabis use. She drove her car head on into another vehicle (which happened to be driven by my best friend). Since drunken driving incidents are charged against alcohol. I figure this one has to be charged against cannabis.

    To put things into perspective Greeny, here are some statistics about drugs and alcohol consumption in the UK:

    Every year, an average of 200,000 people die in the UK as a result of alcohol-related illnesses.

    A similar figure (certainly six-figures, sorry I'm acting from memory here but I've seen the reports before) die from cigarette-related illnesses.

    In the same typical year there are 0 deaths from cannabis-related illnesses. In fact there hasn't been a single such death ever.

    If we look into other effects, alcohol plays a part in 40% of all crime- most notably fighting, assaults and more importantly domestic violence. It is also responsible for the deaths of some 1,000 people on the roads every year.

    And whereas there are probably a few deaths on the roads related to pot, cannabis-related crime is almost non-existent; certainly the violent crime.

    Could someone explain to me again why it is illegal?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Could someone explain to me again why it is illegal?

    Probably because it wouldn't make enough tax income to be worthwhile legalizing... :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    In the same typical year there are 0 deaths from cannabis-related illnesses. In fact there hasn't been a single such death ever.

    Oh, don't be so bloody stupid!

    You're artificially inhaling something in to your lungs; you're telling me it doesn't do *anything*?

    And, then, perhaps you can explain if it doesn't do anything, why the hell do you bother to smoke it in the first place?!

    Furthermore, have you ever considered that because it isn't legal, or indeed as commonly accepted as smoking, then maybe people don't admit to smoking cannabis when they have illnesses? So "cannabis-related" incidents are not reported. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Funny you mention it. There was an article in yesterday's Observer about the 'cannabis economy'.

    Apparently UK sales alone are worth a cool £5bn a year. The government is losing out a small fortune by refusing to legalise it. There's another £6bn on indirect sales of chocolate, pizza and video rentals, as potheads like to stay in for a chilled session it seems :D

    Oh, and they don't like "shiny, noisy places with too many choices such as Starbucks and McDonald's". Can't blame them for that...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Although a joint is stronger than a cigarette lung cancer and other such diseases are caused by cigarette smoking. It is their 20-a-day habit that kills smokers, not their joints DJP.

    Does it kill brain cells and affect your short-term memory? Yes. Can it cause psychological problems after long term use? Maybe. Does it kill? No, it doesn't. Not according to doctors anyway.

    Doing 'something' to your state of mind has nothing to do with its potential to kill. LSD can fuck you up seriously but you don't hear of people dropping dead after eating one do you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    you don't know much about people and life at all do you!

    I tend to be rather a "social chameleon", and mix in with many strata of society. I had that one-on-one session with Jimmy Cater, and was on a first name basis with Wayne Morse. I count a few Senators and Congressman as friends. I worked in "debt resolution" for awhile, and that includes collecting that which was due from outlaw bikers, and such. I tracked people who thought they could disappear, states away. I earned a license in massage therapy, and used it for a time. I supported myself with my camera, for a decade. I am a published writer - fiction, non-fiction, and even poetry (bet THAT one would surprise you :lol: ). I have worked with getting whores off of the street, even searching 75 hours straight for one particular young woman who became the focus of an NBC movie in 1992. I have worked with drug addicts, one-on-one, and have sat through cold turkey withdrawls from heroin for five days, straight through. I volunteer coached different high school athletic teams, in different sports, over a 20 year span. I have worked with abused childred, and runaways > frequently related.

    All of that is outside of my "chosen profession" - professional motorcycle racer, FIM internationally licensed.

    Be careful when you pick up that book with the blank brown cover... it might not be what you think.

    My military service was but a short stop on the resume.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Although a joint is stronger than a cigarette

    Well, I didn't know that, but....
    lung cancer and other such diseases are caused by cigarette smoking. It is their 20-a-day habit that kills smokers, not their joints DJP.

    :lol:

    Sounds like a weak self justification to me...
    Does it kill brain cells and affect your short-term memory?
    Can it cause psychological problems after long term use?

    Do we need any more proof than your confused and poor logic to prove this? For years, doctors didn't see the link between smoking and cancer... doesn't mean it wasn't there, does it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Since I am about to leave on an errand - hundreds of miles away - and have no idea of when I will be back, I would like to leave with this:

    Given a different set of circumstances - as in, perhaps not having beened plunged into combat so early in life - I might have ended up so very much like Greenhat. What I respect most about him? Is his humanity. However, much like another of my Special Forces friends, one should never lose sight of the fact that there is a button within him which should not be pressed, and that button engages "the machine". The machine does not "feel"; it simply brings its assigned task to fruition.

    Such is the way of warriors.

    What that warrior does, when the machine is not engaged? Supplies the basis for the disciplined focus of the machine.

    Although you may well view that as hypocracy... DICHOTOMY would be much more accurate, because both are truth, but to most observers, mutually exclusive.

    Again, such is the way with warriors.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    It is their 20-a-day habit that kills smokers, not their joints DJP.

    Even though there is as much tar and carcinogens in a single joint as in a whole pack of the worst cigarettes? :rolleyes:

    The fact that most who smoke mary jane also tend to smoke tabacco would seem to obscure reality from you...

    :lol:LAUGHING MY FUCKING ASS OFF!!! :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you're saying we keep something that is by all accounts infinitively less damaging than alcohol or cigarettes illegal just on the chance that doctors might prove in the future it is more harming than we thought?

    How poor a logic is that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe


    Even though there is as much tar and carcinogens in a single joint as in a whole pack of the worst cigarettes? :rolleyes:

    I think you should change dealers Thanatos, he's selling you shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat


    OK, MR. A different case. I knew a young lady who died in 1977 from cannabis use. She drove her car head on into another vehicle (which happened to be driven by my best friend). Since drunken driving incidents are charged against alcohol. I figure this one has to be charged against cannabis.

    o
    i lost two friends when i was a teenager. a head on crash cuased by bad visibility and road conditions due to severe rain.
    should severe rain be made ilegal?

    o
    Originally posted by bongbudda

    I know a bloke who has been so badly treated it makes me sick.
    Did you know that most prisoners in the US only get soap, not even a bloody tooth brush! and if you dont have people on the outside you get bearly enough clothes to keep you warm. What is that? __________________o__________________________
    oh bongless one...you have never been inside a british victorian jail have you.
    the victorians were mean. a cell big enough for one man to have a bad time in. today there are three men in that cell! no running water. no sink. no toilet. you piss and crap in a bucket. you can fill your water jug three times a day. one... one clean sheet a week.
    one pair of underpants and socks a week. one hour a day out of the cell if it's not raining. you eat in the cell as well as shit and shave in there. 3 of you. no heating in the winter. boiling in the summer. laying there day after day. if you get put down the block for punishment... solitary confinement ,you can be placed on bread and water diet for up to three days. thats one jug of water
    and nine slices of dry bread a day. jails are and should be tough.
    last time i had a stay in one of her majesties establishments there were a lot of continentals, a few americans and others from around the world. they were mortified! wheres the telly and the pool table? laugh !!!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying that the Uk jails are any better, I'm sure a lot of them are no better than hovels.

    To give you a bit of back ground I'll tell you a little about the case.

    The bloke I knew basicaly went off to uni and went a bit over board with the coke and booze and gambling and lost a shit lot of money and got a bad habit.
    He decided to clean up his act and entered the marines and that seemed to be ok for a while but the lure of coke was preaty bad and basicaly went AWOL with his girlfriend doing shit lots of coke and booze.
    His girlfriend then gets pregnant and in desperation he attempts to rob a qwicky mart with a knife, it goes wrong and he stabs the bloke, who is hurt but not that badly.
    Anyway he gets caught and the police tell him that if he doesnt confess and let himself get tried in the state where it happened rather than the one he was in they would charge her too and the kid would go into care.
    Well he pleads guilty and she then turns state against him too (nice girl!), for the charge of attempted murder (which probally should have been just agrevated robbery) he got 50 years. Yes that is 20 years more than a life sentance.
    But it gets worse, he was sharing a cell with three others and two of them had a piece of string for drying thier clothes, it was found and blamed on him. Its classed as stuff for escaping and he now is in maximum security in a cell by himself for 23 hours a day.

    Well there you go, draw your own opinions but I think its horrific.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda


    Well there you go, draw your own opinions but I think its horrific.

    Would appear that he has what he was begging for - to be supported by the state. He earned it, he should now enjoy it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin


    I think you should change dealers Thanatos, he's selling you shit.

    Obviously, whatever you are smoking has irreparably degraded your cognitive capabilities...

    You would be one of them who claims that he thinks more clearly when stoned, correct?

    Would explain much... ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    I'm not saying that the Uk jails are any better, I'm sure a lot of them are no better than hovels.
    .

    Well there you go, draw your own opinions but I think its horrific.
    hang on bong. going into a shop to rob them and stabbing them isn't exactly petty crime or a bit of a mistake.
    the guy fucked up and is paying the price.
    my crimes were always violence free but... i was always willing to be violent if needs be. most of what i did i got away with. but if i'd stabbed anyone and been caught, i would have no choice but to face up to whatever they threw at me. "if you can't do the time...
    don't commit the crime".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    hang on bong....
    "if you can't do the time...
    don't commit the crime".

    Morrocan Roll agreeing with me??? :eek:

    Who woulda thunk it??? ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not all states have the death penalty. Oddly enough, the most religious states execute the most: Texas...dead center in the bible belt.

    I think some of the reasons juries sentence people to death is that they are afraid they'll be paroled.

    Answer this question for me. Since most people in Texas are Prostestants or Catholics. And Prostestants, like Catholics, follow the second, not first testiment, why is the "eye for an eye" idea of justice sought? Shouldn't those states be turning the other cheek.

    One thing MR, if you read details of the crimes...you might want the person dead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All these tossers who hang outside prisons doing a countdown to the execution and holding frying pans are little morons who hang to a single sentence within a book containing millions of words to validate their murderous ways. Like you said, whatever happened to turning the other cheek?

    Funniest thing is if there was really a God all these bible-bashing idiots would be the first ones to be sent to hell for eternal damnation. As a matter of fact your average atheist homosexual would have a much better chance of going to heaven that your average bible belter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Texas...dead center.


    One thing MR, if you read details of the crimes...you might want the person dead.
    we have some fucking awful crimes here as well mate. i still don't realy think they should be killed. thats to easy. wheres the punishment? where's the long term suffering? death is the easy way out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    we have some fucking awful crimes here as well mate. i still don't realy think they should be killed. thats to easy. wheres the punishment? where's the long term suffering? death is the easy way out.
    The aim of a prison should not be to cause suffering, but to protect people outside the prison from people who would cause harm, and to educate those inside the prison so that they will not reoffend. Only when a person cannot be re-educated so that they will not re-offend should the death penalty be used. And then only where the person is a severe danger to society (eg serial rapist).
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