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british standing shoulder to shoulder?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
todays papers. 84% of the british population are against this war!
along with nelson mandela and stormin norman .
so pissinthepot it looks like it's only the queen and tony blair and thier families that you can keep thanking.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: british standing shoulder to shoulder?
    Originally posted by morrocan roll

    along with nelson mandela and stormin norman .

    You are "reading" what you wish to hear, and not what he said.

    "Stormin' Norman" - when quiried directly upon the "non-support issue", said something very different from what you wish.

    It was Colin Powell who drug his feet, a decade past, and now is in the midst of it. Read something into that... :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: british standing shoulder to shoulder?
    Originally posted by Globe


    You are "reading" what you wish to hear, and not what he said.

    "Stormin' Norman" - when quiried directly upon the "non-support issue", said something very different from what you wish.
    my understanding of what i read is what it said. that this war is at the wrong time and for all the wrong reasons.
    what did you read and how did you interpret it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    actually from reports I have read ol Norman had a rather vocal view against the legitimacy of the pending invasion up until several days ago. Now his tone, whilst not in agreement is rather conciliatory toward the administration. Seems Bushie boy didnt like the press Norm was giving and called him aside to have some words. After that Norman isnt saying much at all.

    Isnt it wonderful in a country who's Constitution guarantees freedom of expression that the Pres and his boys can so easily silence high profile individuals like ol Normy boy! The hypocrisy rolls on and on and on....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Instead of debating if he was supporting the cause, can we have some quotes?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "The thought of Saddam Hussein with a sophisticated nuclear capability is a frightening thought, okay?" he says. "Now, having said that, I don't know what intelligence the U.S. government has. And before I can just stand up and say, 'Beyond a shadow of a doubt, we need to invade Iraq,' I guess I would like to have better information."
    January 28, 2003

    Gen.Schwarzkopf told NBC's Today show he thought President Bush's State of the Union speech was "very compelling," and he said he looks forward to hearing the declassified information that Secretary of State Colin Powell will share with the world later this week.
    "Saddam's got to go," Schwarzkopf said Wednesday morning. "He's a monster in every single way you can think of and with the linkage to the terrorists, it's scary what in fact could be done."
    Schwarzkopf said he expects key facts to emerge when Powell speaks later this week. "I think that the intelligence people obviously have information about activities, and I think you're going to see proof of those activities that show that in fact Saddam Hussein still has nuclear weapons or chemical weapons or biological weapons in his possession and has in fact hidden them someplace...I think that there's going to be conclusive evidence to show that he has not destroyed all the weapons that they say he's destroyed."
    January 29, 2003
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im surprised at ol Normy giving in to the undifferentiated issues of terrorism and the iraqi regime. No mater who they get to mention the two issues in one sentence, it doesnt make it so.

    The WoT is legitimate and a clear and present danger, invading Iraq on zero substantiated proof (so far) is quite another matter. We shall see what we shall see when we hear the declassified details Im sure, but until then we are still on the merry go round of long running allegation and rhetoric.


    N.B. Hehe, MoK, I just noticed the post count in your last post above! So if 666 is the number of the Beast, what does that make you? ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    84% of the British people are against the war? I think that is the number against increasing the number of asylum seekers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    N.B. Hehe, MoK, I just noticed the post count in your last post above! So if 666 is the number of the Beast, what does that make you? ;)

    For those who didn't realise (now that the number has changed) is that my post count was 6666 at the time C posted this comment.

    FYI C, my 6666th post was in Anything Goes asking what evil things people had done in their lives... you see I'd picked up on the connotations of that number too!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shocking! Absolutely shocking!:shocking:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat

    Schwarzkopf said he expects key facts to emerge when Powell speaks later this week.

    Do you recall the statements - to the effect - that a "delay of even five minutes outside a location to be inspected would be considered a serious breach"? And then the delays of up to two hours? :rolleyes:

    The satelite photos of the trucks off-loading and leaving the back of locations whilest the UN inspection team was standing hat-in-hand at the front? :rolleyes:

    {The above, btw, did NOT come from my son, whose MOS is in intel. His keeps his mouth ENTIRELY ZIPPED as to classified material and content, when we speak. He also is of the mind that certain "leaks" should be plugged, forever, in the interest of OPSEC.}

    It might be that Gen. Schwarzkopf has been made privy to intel that the clandestine-collaborator will NEVER be trusted with... :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah yes the oft claimed intelligence that so and so "must have seen" that explains everything. Amazing that a retied general would be privvy to something that would galvanize the opinion of all world leaders squarely behind our intent on the matter if it were anything but contrivance and speculation.

    Unquestioning faith in the integrity of our leaders so long as they are Republican warmongers only shows how narrowminded and unquestioning you are when our nation's long term integrity is truly on the line.

    Keep dancing little puppet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Still filtering through your wet-dream modem, aren't you?

    More delicious to believe that Schwarzkopf is a lap-dog "little puppet", than to accept that what is available to the general public - but "strategically" ignored by the likes of you - is sufficient to alter a perspective.

    Stroke yourself ever so more fervently... your wetdreams are soon to end, and you will finally awake to reality... :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The reality you dream of is not the reality which sane individuals would ever wish on anyone.

    You keep living in your own delusions of the glory of corrupt wars fought to line the pockets of an exclusive few and their political puppets, whilst those of us with an interest in international justice (and the accountability of our leaders to the vows they swear) continue to work towards keeping our children from the sort of narrow minded "patriotism" which leads to the messes we now find ourselves in globally.

    You seem to refer to masturbation so often , it seems you have some serious Freudian issues to resolve yourself. :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    ...delusions of the glory of corrupt wars...

    Not one of the survivors of actual combat who post on this forum - that I am aware of - have ever spoken of war being "glorious". That is another of those things you want to hear so badly that you presume it is what we have said.

    War is a job - like taking out the garbage - and there is no more emotion involved than that other necessary task. It is the garbage produced by your ilk which makes the task necessary.

    Doubt it? Enlist, and volunteer. Your edification will surely come...
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    The reality you dream of is not the reality which sane individuals would ever wish on anyone.

    The reality which I both observed and survived is not something that I "wish for", but a reckoning made requisite by those such as you.

    Time to start campaigning for your hero, the Komrad Blowjob Klinton? Perhaps he can still surrender to Sodamn Insane, and earn his deserved place in history... written by those he surrenders to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clinton never surrendered to anyone nor did he have such narrow focus nor lack of foresight to force our nation into such such arguments as we are having now. That was the work of your beloved Republicans.

    My "ilk" recognises the value of accountability and adherence to international law for the betterment of our country within the "relaity" of our global sytem. Something which your ilk will soon help to set back by nearly half a century, and set the example of the return to unilateral warfare for other nations to follow.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe



    War is a job - like taking out the garbage - and there is no more emotion involved than that other necessary task. It is the garbage produced by your ilk which makes the task necessary.

    you are sick. sad and fucking sick. blind to your own sickness. it's you and your kind that are causing your great nation to be despised and hated. anti americanism is created by you and yours but i know you realy don't give a fuck about that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Clinton never surrendered to anyone nor did he have such narrow focus nor lack of foresight to force our nation into such such arguments as we are having now.

    Seems your memory is very short. Or maybe you believe that our pullout from Somalia was seen as something other than a surrender? Or that the arguments over Somalia and Kosovo never happened?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat


    Seems your memory is very short.

    Respectfully, Mr Greenhat?

    I believe the accurate term would be selective... ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    you are sick. sad and fucking sick. blind to your own sickness. it's you and your kind that are causing your great nation to be despised and hated. anti americanism is created by you and yours but i know you realy don't give a fuck about that.

    Sooooo.....

    You would rather have us to believe that war actually IS a glorious endeavor? :rolleyes: I'll take your word for it, although it contradicts my own personal experience, and likely that of anyone who actually served in a war.

    Actually, it is more likely that your penis envy issue concerning the United States has something to do with the fact that the rebellion here signaled the start of Britain's long slide into mediocrity, right? :lol: Or do you claim to be a "citizen of the world", and give not a flying fuck as to your own nation? ;)

    Never trusted ANYONE who had no allegiance to their own country. I have more respect for my enemies, than them who defend nothing.

    You believe what you want: it is irrelevant, anyway...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe




    Never trusted ANYONE who had no allegiance to their own country. I have more respect for my enemies, than them who defend nothing.

    You believe what you want: it is irrelevant, anyway...
    well how can you be trusted with statements like this:
    "War is a job - like taking out the garbage - and there is no more emotion involved than that other necessary task. It is the garbage produced by your ilk which makes the task necessary."
    that sounds to me like your willing to kill your fellow americans, the garbage in your country who don't see things the way you do.
    all that american garbage who your going to have to get rid of aye.
    and whats with all the petty big dick stuff? fucking grow up!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    well how can you be trusted with statements like this:
    "War is a job - like taking out the garbage - and there is no more emotion involved than that other necessary task..."

    "To those who understand, no explanation is necessary.
    To those that do not, none is possible."

    If you had been there, then you would understand. Since you were not, you never will.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Globe


    "To those who understand, no explanation is necessary.
    To those that do not, none is possible."

    If you had been there, then you would understand. Since you were not, you never will.
    come on globe thats a fucking none answer if ever i saw one!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MR,

    It sounds like you don't want to pay attention to the answer.

    War is a place where emotions must be set aside if one is to survive. It is duty...a job. It's not an easy job, and it is a dangerous job...but survival is about getting it done. Mission, men, self....in that order, or nobody comes home.

    As for the part about Clandestine, think of it as a comment about Neville Chamberlain...

    Without Neville, the toll of WWII might have been far lower. Instead the situation went to the point where soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines of many nations placed their lives into the grinder, did their duty and returned the world to a semblance of sanity....all because Neville and his like failed to deal with reality..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thank you, Greenhat
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    come on globe thats a fucking none answer if ever i saw one!

    Was not me that commented upon the "glory of war". Ever. Other than to state that there is none.

    War is simply the dirtiest of jobs.

    It was not just my "innocence" which was lost, but most of my emotional response. To function in chaos requires discipline, and discipline is the antithesis of emotion.

    Most require anger to kill; I require purpose. Most combat veterans whom I know are very much the same. No rage... just a cold purpose.

    If you had been there, then you would understand. That you have not? Means you never really will...

    Some things just are, like water being wet. This is one of those...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    come on globe thats a fucking none answer if ever i saw one!

    To be fair, I don't think it is.

    As an example, MR; could you explain what it's like to smoke cannabis, what it feels like, how it relaxes you perhaps, to someone who's never smoked in their life?

    I don't know that you could.

    But if you got together with a fellow smoker; you wouldn't need to explain. The experiences you've both had would make explanation unnecessary and irrelevant: you'd both know what it felt like.

    I think it's perfectly valid to say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the mass non-support for this war brings up questions about the nature of our democracy.....

    Whatever side you are on most of us agree that a democratically elected govt is the best from.

    We elect our govt on the basis of their election manifesto and waht we believe is the character and philosphy of both the individuals and the party.

    These politicians then have the ability to run our country for several years.

    A war though is not normally part of any election manifesto and is one of the most important events for any nation.

    If Blair takes us to war when polls suggest that a large majority is not in favour is this anti-democratic?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good point. Going into a war is not something you vote a party in for. If the country was under attack then of course we needn't bother with referendums or public opinion before going into action. But as one of the instigators of an act of aggression on a sovereign nation that poses no apparent danger to us or anyone else Blair has a duty to either prove we are in grave danger or consult the nation before going to war.

    Not only he's not doing that, but he's effectively trying to stop demonstrators from rallying. Apparently the government "knows" the ground will be soft and wet in Hyde Park on February the 15th so no anti-war rally will be allowed there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    British character never showed itself as strongly as 911. Somewhere before my time, it became cool to knock the English. The fact that Tony Blair sees the connection between the terrorists groups and a man who would use a surrogate "terrrorist army" to do his bidding...should make him a hero...but somehow there's this It's all good mentality and self-hatred that is putting the UK at risk.

    To the people in the UK who still don't see the Al Qaeda connection, after a man was tracked from Afghanistan, to Baghdad to Al Qaeda in Northern Iraq to London with ricin...you are too stupid to worry about and luckily you really have no say about Britian and America defending itself. I also question the BBC putting a slanted lie about fund raising in the US for the IRA and neglecting to say that America also provided to the British government the software that reads emails and broke the IRA. I question the timing of this story.

    The West is deluded and weak. And blind to countries like France and Germany that will risk the destruction of their competitors in the West in order to make multi-billion dollar deals with one of the worst political figures of all time...thereby perverting the UN's food for fuel program.

    America was convinced by Bush's speech. Because of our character, bravery and commitment to self-determination, we don't need France and Germany. But neither should they benefit from our blood. But that's another topic that I'll be posting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg

    Whatever side you are on most of us agree that a democratically elected govt is the best from.

    Thank you, but I prefer a Republic. One of the designs of the American Republic was that it not be subject to the politics of the masses. Allows leaders to do what they feel is right without worrying about the polls. Of course, it means you should vote for people on character instead of voting on specific issues...a subtlety that misses many of the voters.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fair enough Greeny but is it possible to have any idea of someones character in such a fraught situation during an election run up?

    Also isn't it impossible for any govt to do what it thinks is right without concern as to the wishes of the electorate when they is going to be an election within the next few years?
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