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Atheists pray when crashing in the air?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
"ATTENTION EVERYONE: THIS IS YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAKING. PLEASE BRACE YOURSELF AND PREPARE FOR EMERGENCY LANDING"

Do die-hard confirmed atheists pray "God save meeeeeeeeeeeeeee nooooooooooooow pleaaaaaaaaaase" or just say "Fook, I going to die!"?

31:32 When a wave covers them like the canopy (of clouds), they call to God, offering Him sincere devotion. But when He has delivered them safely to land, there are among them those that halt between (right and wrong). But none reject Our Signs except only a perfidious ungrateful (wretch)! 31:33 O mankind! do your duty to your Lord, and fear (the coming of) a Day when no father can avail aught for his son, nor a son avail aught for his father. Verily, the promise of God is true: let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the chief Deceiver deceive you about God. 31:34 Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with God (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with God is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/031.qmt.html
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You could have saved alot of typing by just reiterating the old addage "there are no atheists in fox holes". lol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't get it. If atheists don't believe in a God (and possess no belief of an 'afterlife') then why should they 'pray' at all?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by meritlib
    I don't get it. If atheists don't believe in a God (and possess no belief of an 'afterlife') then why should they 'pray' at all?

    :rolleyes:

    Still failing to grasp even basic concepts Onenats...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes. I 'grasp' the folly of deathbed conversions in this instance. So if some atheist prays he reckons that God will stop the plane from crashing? That seems idiotic. If you have no belief in God then logically you shouldn't pray to him EVER.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I guess some of them want to play safe. According to the christians' rulebook a bit of repenting before death can just do the trick. If there is no afterlife they have nothing to lose, and if there is an afterlife as described in the bible a good samaritan atheist has a much better chance of winding up in heaven than many of the church-going christians in this world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Vox, I salute your avatar. It is beautiful in ways not appreciated in its simplicity. *sigh*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by meritlib
    Yes. I 'grasp' the folly of deathbed conversions in this instance. So if some atheist prays he reckons that God will stop the plane from crashing? That seems idiotic. If you have no belief in God then logically you shouldn't pray to him EVER.


    A lot of Atheists still believe in a God, they just don't believe in the religions that have sprang up to worhsip him as they are all crap.
    People don't pray in a situation like that to be saved, they pray for salvation in the afterlife. Even the people who don't believe don't know for sure what is out there, and much better to make your peace before you die than to just not bother.
    If God, truly is a God then he will forgive anyone who deserves to be forgiven, doesn't matter if they were atheists or not, you can't be punished for not believing in something.

    Christians, Muslims and the rest have got it wrong. The people who live good lives will have a good afterlife, not the ones who prayed 5 times a day then murdered 3000 people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere

    A lot of Atheists still believe in a God, they just don't believe in the religions that have sprang up to worhsip him as they are all crap.

    Atheism is the "belief" that no God exists. People who need "proof", but won't totally rule the possibility of a God out are called Agnostics.

    People don't pray in a situation like that to be saved, they pray for salvation in the afterlife. Even the people who don't believe don't know for sure what is out there, and much better to make your peace before you die than to just not bother.

    You can't make such a statement. When shit hits the fan, and I start the "dear God..." I don't hope for a good afterlife, but simply for a good outcome in the actual situation taking place.

    If God, truly is a God then he will forgive anyone who deserves to be forgiven, doesn't matter if they were atheists or not, you can't be punished for not believing in something.

    Christians, Muslims and the rest have got it wrong. The people who live good lives will have a good afterlife, not the ones who prayed 5 times a day then murdered 3000 people.
    [/QUOTE]

    Agree with you on the part that atheists can't be punished for not believeing, but disgaree with the "Christians, Muslims and the rest have got it wrong".
    I know good muslims, christians and jews. Who believe. And I believe that they're not "wrong" in their cases. Just that their beliefs don't suit everyone, and they choose not to pressure others to think that it is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some Athiests may pray...but I wouldn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Atheists won't be punished for not believing?

    But the Qur'an indicates that God has sent messengers to man and His creation should be sufficient signs for His existance:

    21:30 "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

    2:28 "How can ye reject the faith in God?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return"

    2:164 "Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise."

    22:5 "O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)."
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Atheists won't be punished for not believing?
    Originally posted by Aisha
    But the Qur'an indicates that God has sent messengers to man and His creation should be sufficient signs for His existance:

    21:30 "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

    Prove it! I just don't have that blind faith in a bok or books that present no proof, when there is so much scientific fact out there.
    2:28 "How can ye reject the faith in God?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return" [/B]

    But i don't believe 'HE' did..I don't believe it!! How did he give me life? When did he give me life? What can you do to prove this to me! I don't have blind faith
    2:164 "Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise." [/B]

    EH? What? I can quote wordsworth poetry to you...doesn't mean its fact
    22:5 "O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)." [/B]

    Ditto...These kinds of words do nothing to give me any kind of faith! I need real truth and evidence..if thats what YOU decided to believe then fine, get on with your happy life, but UNDERSTAND THIS..I am happy in mine without religion or faith or beliefe in the same things as you and I am not a worse person because of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Never mind what the koran, bible, torah and other volumes might claim about worshipping.

    All the above religions claim their god is perfect (infinite wisdom and all that). An all-knowing, perfect being is by definition altruist. Therefore if any of the god(s) described by those religions exist they clearly wouldn't give a fuck whether people pray every day telling them how great they are. A prayer is little more than an ego-massaging, arse-kissing exercise. I can't see how any being who is infinitely great and wise could send someone to eternal damnation because they didn't tell him everyday how brilliant he is.

    Therefore praying before death is completely pointless for both believers and non-believers. If there is a god and an afterlife people will be judged on their actions on earth, not on the amount of arse-kissing they've done to the boss.

    The other possibility is that those people praying on the plane are just asking for divine intervention so they walk out of the plane alive, rather than trying to get into heaven when they peg it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Bible Quran and Science

    http://www.tempemasjid.com/maurice/frcont15.htm

    Read it in FULL and then return here.

    This is a classic text. At the age of 50, Bucaille a French Christian surgeon learned Arabic and studied the Bible and Qur'an. He conclusion was:
    http://www.tempemasjid.com/maurice/25generalconcl.htm
    "In view of the level of knowledge in Muhammad's day, it is inconceivable that many of the statements In the Qur'an which are connected with science could have been the work of a man. It is, moreover, perfectly legitimate, not only to regard the Qur'an as the expression of a Revelation, but also to award it a very special place, on account of the guarantee of authenticity it provides and the presence in it of scientific statements which, when studied today, appear as a challenge to explanation in human terms".

    He also explained if Muhammad had copied his Book from the Jews and Christians how was it possible not a single error was copied across.

    Bucaille got interested in the Qur'an when: being an outstanding scientist, he was selected to treat the mummy of Merneptah (Pharaoh), which he did. During his visit to Saudi Arabia he was shown the verses of the Holy Qur'an in which Allah says that the dead body of the Pharaoh will be preserved as a "Sign" for posterity. An impartial scientist like Dr. Bucaille, who (being also a Christian) was conversant with the Biblical version of Pharaoh's story as being drowned in pursuit of Prophet Moses. He was pleasantly surprised to learn that unknown to the world till only of late, the Holy Qur'an made definite prediction about the preservation of the body of that same Pharaoh of Moses' time. This led Dr. Bucaille to study the Holy Qur'an thoroughly after learning the Arabic language. The final conclusion of his comparative study of Qur'an and the Bible is that the statements about scientific phenomena in the Holy Qur'an are perfectly in conformity with the modern sciences whereas the Biblical narrations on the same subjects are scientifically entirely unacceptable.

    A summary of that book is available here:
    http://www.islam101.com/quran/quransci.html

    21:30 actually refers to the Big Bang. It was only in 1978 they gave the Noble prize to two people who proved that that's the case. It is the big bang origin of the universe.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well you've just contradicted yourself.
    The old testament of the bible and the Koran both agree that the Earth was created in 7 days, 4500 years ago.
    Any mention of a bigbang is a massive contradiction, and should be classed as heresy.

    What really happened (and we have proof) is that many billions of years ago the Earth was created by the remnants of a newly formed star being pulled together by the force of gravity. As this hot star cooled down the solid matter condensed and formed pools of water, which became rivers then seas. At that point something happened that caused life to begin, many scientists think that the Earth may have been seeded by a comet or meteorite that collided with Earth.

    Scientists discovered the echos of the big bang many years ago, and have been studying stars moving away from a central point for as long.
    There are rocks on Earth that millions of years older than the 4500 the bible gives us.
    Yes, some critics suggest that the moon is a good example of how old the Earth isn't, something to do with dust. In an airless vacuum the dust thrown up by a meteorite would land in the exact same place that the meteor impacted, no atmosphere means no wind which means the surface dust would be quite thin except around impact craters.
    Aisha, the Earth wasn't created by a giant superbeing, there may be a God up there watching over us, but if he created the World he wouldn't leave rocks lying around that are older than the Earth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    6 days are not 24 hour days

    Stop rattling on. Go and read the book and come back.
    http://www.tempemasjid.com/maurice/16creation.htm

    The Arabic word "yaum" means time periods or aeons not 24 hour days.

    "It is therefore possible to say that in the case of the Creation of the world, the Qur'an allows for long periods of time numbering six. It is obvious that modern science has not permitted man to establish the fact that the complicated stages in the process leading to the formation of the Universe numbered six, but it has clearly shown that long periods of time were involved compared to which 'days' as we conceive them would be ridiculous."

    BTW, the Qur'an doesn't have God resting on the 7th day. Instead it says:

    We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us. 50:38

    Take your choice!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SHOW IT TO ME WHOWHERE

    You posted mis-information about the Qur'an. You said 7 days. You show me that in the Qur'an and I'll send you a new Audi TT. It's 6 not 7.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But its just a book...it aint necessarily so!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: SHOW IT TO ME WHOWHERE
    Originally posted by Aisha
    You posted mis-information about the Qur'an. You said 7 days. You show me that in the Qur'an and I'll send you a new Audi TT. It's 6 not 7.


    Oh, I am sorry, he created the world in 6 but needed a rest on the seventh.

    You aren't going to win the argument and you aren't going to convert us. As far as we're concerned Islam as a religion is full of hypocrisy, much like any other. When you show us evidence we'll agree, until then I'll keep my faith in humankind, seeing as religion hasn't actually ever solved any problems, but created them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: SHOW IT TO ME WHOWHERE
    Originally posted by Whowhere



    As far as we're concerned Islam as a religion is full of hypocrisy, much like any other. When you show us evidence we'll agree, until then I'll keep my faith in humankind, seeing as religion hasn't actually ever solved any problems, but created them.

    I think the point is not to put any religion down, but for those people who are selling a religion to realise that there are some people out there who just don't have their faith.

    There is no point trying to convert a confirmed Athiest. Although I guess that religious people see it as their duty to do so..it scores them points in their heaven!!

    what you need to understand is we will not be swayed by endless posts containing fairy tales about supposed facts.

    And...it's not that we are putting the muslim religion down, Athiests don't believe in any religion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That classic book is very good

    if you want to just be like an ostrich and hide your head in the sand, fine, be my guest.

    If you put sand, cement, mortar, etc in a bag and shake it, can you create a house? Or do you need an architect, a builder, etc? To believe the Universe just came into being is more absurd than instead believe there was a master creator - can you see a flaw?

    67:3 He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (God) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?
    67:4 Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out.

    How did Muhammad know about Embryology? Had a microscope hidden away in the sand?
    http://users.erols.com/ameen/amazingq.htm#embryo
    http://users.erols.com/ameen/amazingq.htm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Atheism is the "belief" that no God exists. People who need "proof", but won't totally rule the possibility of a God out are called Agnostics.

    No, atheism is the belief that there exists no entity with the five properties of being

    - omnipotent;
    - omniscient;
    - eternal;
    - perfectly good;
    - and conscious.

    Such an entity is a theist god. The use of the term 'atheism' to refer to the belief that no god of any kind exists is a liberal use of the above strictly-defined term.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere


    What really happened (and we have proof) is that many billions of years ago the Earth was created by the remnants of a newly formed star being pulled together by the force of gravity. As this hot star cooled down the solid matter condensed and formed pools of water, which became rivers then seas. At that point something happened that caused life to begin, many scientists think that the Earth may have been seeded by a comet or meteorite that collided with Earth.

    Scientists discovered the echos of the big bang many years ago, and have been studying stars moving away from a central point for as long.
    There are rocks on Earth that millions of years older than the 4500 the bible gives us.
    Yes, some critics suggest that the moon is a good example of how old the Earth isn't, something to do with dust. In an airless vacuum the dust thrown up by a meteorite would land in the exact same place that the meteor impacted, no atmosphere means no wind which means the surface dust would be quite thin except around impact craters.

    No honey (Mwah) You don't have proof and we've been through this a thousand times. "The moon thing" to which you refer is the fact that if the amount of dust on the moon were to increaseAT THE RATE IT HAS BEEN INCEASING BY since we first landed on the moon, it should be 21 miles deep in dust if the earth is as old as they say it is, however it is not....but mearly a few inches deep, which therefore suggests, that the earth is not as old as "guessed" by scientists.

    Science is one theory based on another theory based on another based on another based on another, what if one of those theories was wrong?

    :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere


    No honey (Mwah) You don't have proof and we've been through this a thousand times. "The moon thing" to which you refer is the fact that if the amount of dust on the moon were to increaseAT THE RATE IT HAS BEEN INCEASING BY since we first landed on the moon, it should be 21 miles deep in dust if the earth is as old as they say it is, however it is not....but mearly a few inches deep, which therefore suggests, that the earth is not as old as "guessed" by scientists.

    Science is one theory based on another theory based on another based on another based on another, what if one of those theories was wrong?

    :p

    Bugger, that last post was posted by me, not Whowhere proving himself wrong.

    By the way, I think this Aisha is off the chart too. As someone who used to go too church devoutly i think that religion=brainwashing. Call me harsh but I've been there, done that and got many, many T-shirts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ah right.

    the old "it's so complicated and perfect that it must have been created" argument

    *yawn*

    so if the universe is so complex it requires a creator, it necessarily follows that this "creator" is so complex and [by your definition is PERFECT] so on that this creator, by your own logic, MUST HAVE BEEN CREATED ITSELF

    and then you get a logical regression leading on into infinity

    or, and this is slightly more plausible, a quantum bubble destabilises, explodes outwards and around 18billion years later we get us. a thing which is much less [infinitely so!] complex than requiring this list of creators.

    care to debate the impossibilty of free will coupled with an omniscient god? [in a monoverse anyway, i'll let you ignore quantum theory if you like]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WhoWhere repeatedly shows his ignorance and bigotry about Islam and other religions.

    Qur'an does not say anything about 7 days or 4500 years re: creation and in fact has a view that is supportive of Big Bang and creation together. It does not even rule out evolution in certain ways.
    It does not say that a woman's witness is less than man's or that a woman is inferior to man.
    Islam does not prohibit women from working, and in every Muslim country there are significant numbers of women who work in professions, but they are not required to. Islam does not say blanketly that such and such particular group is going to hell.

    -- it would be nice if you showed enough care and pride about the words you spew to quit spreading false stereotypical hateful lies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by orionzephram
    WhoWhere repeatedly shows his ignorance and bigotry about Islam and other religions.

    Qur'an does not say anything about 7 days or 4500 years re: creation and in fact has a view that is supportive of Big Bang and creation together. It does not even rule out evolution in certain ways.
    It does not say that a woman's witness is less than man's or that a woman is inferior to man.
    Islam does not prohibit women from working, and in every Muslim country there are significant numbers of women who work in professions, but they are not required to. Islam does not say blanketly that such and such particular group is going to hell.

    -- it would be nice if you showed enough care and pride about the words you spew to quit spreading false stereotypical hateful lies.


    The Quran has the same teachings as the old testament and the method of creation as the bible.
    It has to because Islam is a young religion and needs to have some roots somewhere, so it uses Christianity and Judaism as a starting block.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That was me then
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You just repeat gormlessly...

    "The Quran has the same teachings as the old testament and the method of creation as the bible."

    The Qur'an if you care to read that link does not specific 24 hr days like the Bible implies.

    The way the Bible interprets it, the word 'day' means the interval of time between two successive sunrises or sunsets for an inhabitant of the Earth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it worth picking over the differences of the holy books?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny
    Is it worth picking over the differences of the holy books?

    Not really, since they all are a collection of sci-fi stories and superstitious tales.

    It is greatly amusing to see followers of the 'big 3' sects scrutinising their books and arguing which one is right. What they don't seem to realise is that ancient Egyptian sun-worshippers or South American rainforest tribes who believe the spirit of the Jungle is God are just as credible as a religion as Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
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