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Hey, DUMBASS. You want to actually back up those allegations with EVIDENCE? You are clueless. Fact. Simple and VERY clear. Maybe just reading the UCMJ would help you pull your head from your fourth point of contact.
Mind finding a peer review for anything Chomsky has ever written? With a little work you can find reviews of his works by well-regarded historians. For some reason, the reviews aren't very good. Maybe that is because his methods are suspect (at best). Your "well-respected" is only in the circles of certain political leanings where he writes what they want to hear and believe.
And I guess you missed it. From 1941 to 1945, the US supported the USSR. Does that mean that after 1945 we had no right to oppose them? It seems you think so.
As for your pathetic comments about servicemembers, it only illustrates how little you understand of service. You keep your rediculous point of view, it won't do you any good except to allow you to continue to stare down your nose at the rest of humanity as they leave you behind in your fantasies. Makes you feel superior as you do nothing though, doesn't it?
Oh, by the way, the lie you've been telling about Iraq and Al Quida not supporting each other? In contradiction to both the official line of Iraq (emphasizes the proud support of the heroic and revolutionary Iraqi people for Islamic fighters everywhere, including the holy warriors of al-Qaida) and Al-Quida (claimed credit for the recent Kenya attacks, and linked future assaults to potential war against their friends, the Iraqis).
Your idea of morality is letting people die in attacks from fanatics as long as it doesn't interfere with your ability to inflict your opinions on others. Must be wonderful to think you know what is good for all the rest of us.
You are so clearly steeped in your military condition that its laughable Greeny!
Go tell your own CIA masters that they are lying. The supposed link between Al Qaeda and Iraq has long been dismissed as mere unsupported allegation, and if you took your head out of your gun barrel and actually bothered to educate yourself as to the nature of the Baath Party in Iraq youd know they were a secular and non-religiously motivated regime. But don't strain your brain too much, I realise that years of service to the MIC has indeed limited your comprehenision of the nature of the threats you believe in so willingly. Of course if you didnt then I suppose youd lose whatever belief it is you think your fighting for.
As for Chomsky, he is what he is and not knowing the man personally I really dont care to continue defending him from the likes of you. Im sure he could run circles around you of his own volition if the case warranted.
Suffice to say that you are so sold on the idea of our government's righteousness that you arent even able to see how you and yours are merely the implements being used by a select group of Washington powermongers whose corrupt interests and their desire to carve up the planet go back decades to the days of the formation of Skull and Bones if not well before.
You keep right on believing you are protecting democracy as you essentially serve the very aparatus that has used every means of underhanded manipulation to deny it to countless millions in foreign lands around the globe and will (with unquestioning lackies such as yourself) continue to do so until our day as top dog is brought to an end by our own hate-inspiring warmongering.
Frankly your delusional conviction that Saddam is a greater danger to world peace than we (the veritable Goliath of current world power) ourselves are is the greatest part of the real problem facing American society and the world today.
I truly wonder what you would do when and if the truth of exactly what your "patriotism" is truly being used for (and for whom) is revealed. I suspect youd have little left to cling to in order to justify your chosen career path. How very sad you are indeed!
America is bad Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah Blah The CIA is running the world. Blah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah Blah. Military people are robots.Blah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah Blah. The U.S. is evil.Blah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah Blah. I am the expert, BELIEVE ME.Blah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah BlahBlah Blah Blah
I suppose you don't quite comprehend the nature and interests of the MIC then do you? Its not about trade balances my friend, its about geo-political control, control of the world's resources (i.e oil and gas) and the continual need for testing grounds for our advanced military hardware before it can be sold to our own government or to others. Therein lies the crux of where you will find the most significant spoils of the US war machine and the select individuals who reap the profits therefrom.
As for why the world hasnt risen up, well stay tuned to the current driving doctrine in both home and foreign affairs and we might well see it sooner than later. Certainly the hatred of our supposedly "benevolent" nation is rising, and given the demonstrable lack of anything but self serving powermongering fascism eminating from Washington, its not too surprising.
But you really cannot be so duped as to believe your military service serves anything other than guard-dogging expansionistic industrial interests? Or perhaps you are. Nevertheless the truth hurts so live with it. In your position, if a soldier you indeed be, you have no choice but to go and do as you are told.
If you need indication of who and what our modern military truly serves, go examine the shady backgrounds and business histories of men like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush Sr. Richard Perle, etc... Makes for quite interesting and disturbing reading.
Or you can go ask Greenhat to share some of his "hyper classified" truths, though in keeping with good old "plausible deniability" he'll no doubt just refuse on the laughable grounds of "national security". Funny how national security always seems to cover the sins of so many corrupt men! :rolleyes:
The War
The Reality
And lest we forget to round out the lopsided picture that acquiescent reporters are fond of painting, let us comprehend the innumerable situations in which the death of foreign civilians have come about whether through direct or indirect US intervention in foreign lands or through the installation of repressive and murderous right-wing regimes by our own "magnanimous" US government aparatus.
As for pharmaceuticals Greeny, seems you are in a more proximate position than I to be clouding your brain with such rubbish. Do give my regards to the poppy growers in your corner of the world whilst you safeguard their activities to help fund the CIA.
Another Powerful Interest to Protect
You know that the US Armed Forces has plans to invade most countries in the world, don't you? It's called planning.
In Iraqs case I suspect that they were updated several times during the 90s, for a multitude of reasons. Not just oil - which, as has been pointed out to you, the US Forces were sitting on in April 1991, but there was also the "Safe Haven" issue and considerations for the potential of Iraq build up again near Kuwait.
To be honest though, this whole argument is getting really boring. From both POV.
BTW I nearly pissed myself laughing when you said "Go tell your own CIA masters that they are lying." Most of the time I give your comments a huge amount of interest because you raise some interesting arguments. But that one was beneath you, I'm cynical when it comes to US Policy, but even I'm not that blinkered. The CIA Masters thing really is a misnomer, if they were that powerful just think what could have already happened - and would have under the last regime too...
Similarly, it will be interesting to hear what spin comes out the US admin now that the UN inspectors (in the latest report) have publicly announced that they have not one one shred of evidence (even residual) to support the supposed US/UK proof of WMD's. lol.
No doubt it will follow the lines of recent statements made my Sharon that they've all been moved to Syria. So now we invade Syrai too I suppose? We're doing ourselves and world peace so much benefit indeed if we target them as well... :rolleyes:
As for your point about plans, be careful with such claims. If that is true and we have so many plans to invade so many countries, who then are the real threat to the world, eh? And in the end I would be proven even more justified in my criticisms.
The plans re: Afghan and Iraq are somewhat more specific and more linked to particular interests one might uncover by doing some research into the histories of Bush Sr., Cheney, Rumsfeld and Richard Perle (to name a few). Its not some general ho hum matter in the light of 9/11 and the use of that event to justify so much of what the current US admin is actually carrying out. These events did not spring out of some 9/11 vacuum but are quite interlinked with a very active hidden agenda unfolding around the globe.
So much for credibility.
Oh, and here is something from someone with credible credentials (unlike Chomsky): The War
And if you want to use rhetoric as conclusive proof of anything then youd best re-examine the numerous reversals and backtracking in our own administration's rhetoric everytime one of their "allegations" didnt prove quite so evident! It only "proves" that both sides are capable of posturing, nothing more.
It is curious, however, that you should consider any Iraqi or Al Qaeda rhetoric claiming a link as true when youve consistently supported the Bush doctrine that anything emerging from those quarters must be lies. :lol
Best you stick to polishing your boots! You'll want them all nice shiney if youre now going to start performing the "Bush Shuffle"
Thing is, you've stated over and over that it isn't true. Maybe they are liars. Or maybe you are. Or most likely, both.
In all actuality it's pretty clear to most thinking persons that if anyone is lying tis you. But then your argumentation is so weak most of the time that lying is probably the only way you can make any point sound remotely legitimate! lol.
Go get lost on patrol please and spare us any more of your worthless gumflapping!
You said CIA Masters, suggesting that they run the show, which kind of flies in the face of everything else you have said. If they are the "Masters" then why is the US Govt position contradictory to CIA statements?
Did they, that not how I understand it. From what I've heard there are glaring omissions in Saddam's statement which the weapons team have commented on - mainly regarding "Project E" and certain chemical/biological components...
And with one simple statement you expose you lack of knowledge about world affairs. Simply put, most nations have such plans. Like I said its called being prepared - mainly to enable a reaction to any events. Any Govt who doesn't could find themselves struggling to react. Such as an attack from Afghanistan - as an example. But then you don't believe that it was Al Quaeda who attacked WTC anyway, do you.
That you see these plans as a threat is possibly the most laughable part. Having a plan, doesn't mean that you will carry it out. I mean, even the NHS has a plan to deal with a major incident (plane crash, terrorism, biological attack, war) which affects London (and any city really)...does this mean that we are going to be attacked, or just that we are preparing...?
Now, if you have any understanding of the role and activities of the CIA then youd know from history that they have played a major role in any foreign conflict that the US has engaged in. Whether prior to, during or in follow up the CIA has a reach that far exceeds your understanding obviously.
If in this instance the CIA and the administration are at loggerheads it only shows the lack of cohesion of purpose between not only the agency and any given administration but what many are aware is a gulf between varying organisations within the US bureaucracy.
You may wish to dismiss me on the grounds that I take issue with your claim to invasion plans for the world being operationally on hand at any given moment. Sorry, doesnt wash. Sure there is contiunual intelligence on the countries of interest in the world but that is a far cry from saying that our respective governments maintain a projected readiness to resort to invasion as if one were to simply pick a nation out of a hat as you claim.
I think you had best read up how much more the case is that intelligence services such as the CIA have been the major instigator in setting up puppet regimes and the role that they have in world affairs.
And as for your denial of the CIA - Admin rift over the claim of a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda read this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59403-2002Sep9¬Found=true
The rest of the claptrap youve been arguing doesnt bear directly on the current visible rhetorical shuffle or multi-pronged war lust that this admin, driven by voices like those of Richard Perle, is promoting.
The plans for the invasion of Afghanistan, as I showed some time ago (despite your refusal to admit fact) werebeing advanced for purely economic control reasons well before 9/11. That I and many others refuse to swallow a coverstory riddled with more inconsistencies than than the Belgian weather is something that only time and effort will bear out (or not) and that I am fully prepared to await. The truth behind the lies that fueled and maintained the Vietnam War waited 20 years to be released and are now well known. People simply are prone like sheep to forget such previous deceptions by reason of a common societal propensity in the West to believe that our governments are essentially "good" and would not dare repeat or outdo such past lies upon our society. Sadly, our faith is rarely founded as I believe is being shown today.
And as for the claims of the inspectors, well I suppose you missed the BBC reports of three days ago when it was repeatedly announced that despite the shared "intelligence" by the US admin, the UN inspectors have not to date found any evidence that support such claims. The reports have not been repeated and Im sure there is some spin factor involved as to why, but we shall no doubt see what we shall see in the time to come.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2607971.stm
Weren't you the one to say that you didn't devotedly follow any specific political stance (or something similar like that)?
In the case of my cited comment I can say that i never support right-wing fascist leanings or a refusal to accept that interventions in world affairs are often conducted by agencies other than the ruling political administration of the day.
For MoK to scoff at suggestions of CIA involvement , when history records their involvement in setting up and training the likes of the Taliban, Pinochet, Saddam, etc.., is a position that I merely do not expect from him. Greeny and yourself perhaps, since your brand of "reality" is apparently whatever serves your idea of the moral supremacy of the status quo.
Could it be possible, that MoK does the same?
Really, C. You need to get some grip on reality. LMAO.
I don't demand consistency, I simply asked that if the CIA were the masters, then why does US Policy fly in the face of what the CIA claims to be fact. i.e. Why does the US position remain that there are links between Iraq and Al Quaeda if the CIA says that this isn't true. All I am doing to questioning your assertion.
Much as I do the "all about Oil" claim. As yet I cannot remember reading your response to the point that the US weresitting on Iraqi oil fields in 1991 and yet gave them up freely. You now claim that their motives for this campaign is purely about oil, instigated by Bush Family interests. Yet who was president in 1991?
I'm not saying that you are wrong, just that there are gaping holes which make your position sound weak. Personally I have little doubt that economics are part of the reason for US policy in that region, noting that stategic interests prevail too, and I cannot fault that.
The US Govts responsibilty is to protect the interests of its own people and in a very basic sense, the best way to achieve that is total economic dominance. Especially when it comes to a finite and vauable natural resource.
That some of that is currently under the control of a despot just makes it easier for them to justify their actions. Put this way, I would rather that the US controlled Iraq, than Saddam. When I personally way up the pros and cons of the situation, I have no doubt on the outcome I would like to see.
As for my "political disposition", there is much about the US which disgusts me. There is more about Bush personally which I lothe, many of his political positions leave me cold and I certainly would never have voted for him (like more than 50% of the US Pop!) but I take each situation on its own merits and on this I think he is right. We need to act against Saddam - unfortunately military power is the only language he seems to respond to.
BTW I know about how the CIA has done it's utmost to subvert other Govts. The UK has done the same - as do the French, Russians, Chinese (etc.) intelligence services. Hate to say this, but its their job...