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Chechnya

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Terrorists or freedom fighters?

They think of Chechnya as sovereign soil and regard the Russians as an invading army.

Is this what the people of Chechnya want?

How can the problem be dealt with and by whom?

Is this a true part of TWAT?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They set off bombs in civilian areas of moscow, they take civilians hostage..

    Its quite clear what they are...Or at least those involved in such things...Those chechens fighting the russian troops are freedom fighters/rebels.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would you not see the recent events in Moscow as an act of war rather than a terrorist act, there is a disputed area of territory with two armed forces fighting eachother for control of it and those guys were part of it...........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, it was terrorism pure and simple..The hostage taking in the theatre was the very definition of terrorism.

    The second you deliberately target civilians in order to influence the govt/military, you are a terrorist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *I apologise for referring to WW2*

    Then the bombing of German cities by the RAF and USAF was a terrorist act not an act of war?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By todays standards, yes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog
    No, it was terrorism pure and simple..The hostage taking in the theatre was the very definition of terrorism.

    The second you deliberately target civilians in order to influence the govt/military, you are a terrorist.

    "When an emergency situation leads to self-defence, resistance is a duty." The people from chechnya will propably see no difference between the war that is located in grosny and the one in moscow. after all it is the russian gov. that declares all as >one country>.
    Of course: it is terrorism to take hostages ! And a government simply cannot deal with terrorists, also true.

    But: isn`t it also to be called terrorism what`s happening in chechnya during at last the last 10 years - commited by russian soldiers ? If only half of it is true what comes to our media.
    You can`t measure one killing as "war in the field of glory" and the other as murderer by terrorists, can you ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Chechnyan men who fight and kill Russian soldiers in the streets of Grozny aren't usually called terrorists. Militants, fighters perhaps but not terrorists. But men who take civilians as hostages and kill them can be called terrorists because that's what they are. Terrorists and worthless scum.

    Having said that, it is true that Russian troops have committed serious crimes and even atrocities against the Chechnyans. And while we must combat terrorism and never bow out to their demands, we must also examine what is making these people to commit such acts.

    The Russians shouldn't move out of Chechnya because of demands by cold-blooded murderers. But if wrongdoing has occurred by the occupying forces, and in this case it's safe to say it has, steps must be taken to stop it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tobster, no i wouldnt call the actions of the russians 'terrorism'..War crimes, atrocities maybe, but not terrorism.

    Agree with Aladdin....im disgusted by a lot of what goes on in chechnya but everytime something like that theatre thing happens, or another bomb goes off in moscow, my sympathy for their cause drops a little.

    They have a noble cause but they are buggering it all up by their terrorist actions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Freedom fighting just doesn't seem to work anymore. Maybe, when acts of violence were necessary to bring a people's struggle to the world's attention, it did work, but with media coverage extending to every area of conflict on the globe, passive resistance, combined with appeals to the international community, is surely the most effective approach. That said, whether it's Chechnya or Palestine (or Iraq), there will always be those who are prepared to aggravate an already bad situation to further their own political agenda.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure how 'noble' the Chechen cause is, most of the armed forces on their side seem to be engaged mainly in criminal activities and many of the Chechen population want to stay Russian, all the Russians who lived in Chechnya fled a long time ago.

    If the Chechens in Moscow had stormed a military compound would that have been a terrorist act?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg

    If the Chechens in Moscow had stormed a military compound would that have been a terrorist act?

    No..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by tobster


    "When an emergency situation leads to self-defence, resistance is a duty."

    Resistance infers opposition to military forces, not to civilians.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Resistance infers opposition to military forces, not to civilians.

    No you pillock, you infer, he implied.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Witness


    No you pillock, you infer, he implied.

    This from a Scot? :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some of you may know a better history on the situation than me, but isn't true that the Russians are there b/c bombs and criminal actions of warlords? In other words the hate goes both ways as does the killing of civilians, but if the Russians withdrew from Chechnya, they would still deal with bombings, crime, and hostility. No easy solution except maybe a huge wall.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I havenot been bothered to read the entire thread, but in my opinion, terrorists! Look, there is a way to get independance for Chechnya, but this is not it. Why are they attacking the general populace? Is it a strategic move or is it an act of hate? There was a motivation, but they are acting in a violent way and killing people with tactics that fall under terrorism. I do not remember in any war in my life (1987 onwards hehe - i do have the history channel tho!) where an enemy bunker was stormed and the people were held at gunpoint - with everybody informed through media/other methods, and the demanding of the war ending, if not they would be executed. Perhaps they do deserve their freedom, perhaps Chechnya would be better off without the russians, but I can't comment since i dont know enough about chechnya.

    If they wanted to make a point, they would need to start huge rallies - where nobody is hure - demanding the independance of Chechnya. If every Chechnyan wants independance then every chachnyan should be able to show it. These actions only make russians more hostile and angry towards the Chechnyans. Perhaps the chechnyans feel it is right, but how can they say that.

    If they were freedom fighters they would be fighting for freedom. For example, if i wanted independance for my village, I wouldnt make demands then blow up buckingham palace, I would write to the parish council, saying why i want it, and if they didint agree, i woulkd rally more support until they did.

    In the end it is about the people. If the people of chechnya want indepedance, THEY have to show it. Write letters, speak out, make demonstrations. If the russians suppress them, it will only make the rest of the world more sympathetic to Chechnya. But I know that i am on the russians side here because a couple of angry chenynans have stormed into their capital and held their people at gunpoint.

    Oh, one last thing. The Chechnyans weren't executed. If they had captured a russian security officer do you think he would be thrown in prison? I believe he would be held for ransom or/and executed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the people of chechnya want indepedance, THEY have to show it.
    Very true.............
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