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ABORTION
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
What are your personal views on abortion?
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I think that it should not be used as a form of contraception. If you think you are grown up enough to have sex you should be willing to face up to the consequences in an adult manner.
I know some may find this a little old fashioned and closed-minded but I am speaking as a mother.
I think that all these options are too confusing for a young girl or woman and they can often be pressured into doing something they don't really want. (I know girls this has happened to).
Also, right from day one of conception a woman's hormones go haywire, believe me, I know. Our usual perceptions can become confused.
I had a scan at 8 weeks into my pregnancy because I was rushed into hospital with abdominal pains. My baby looked like a little kidney bean at that stage but she had a heart beat. Luckily the baby was fine and I was sent home.
I now have a beautiful 2 year old daughter.
At 8 weeks, people think that the baby is 'nothing'. People try to de-humanize the foetus. This makes me really mad. That child has as much right to live as anyone else and who has the right to end it?
When I found out I was pregnant I was at University (half way through my degree) and I had been using the contraceptive pill properly in a sound relationship.
I was mature enough to talk to my partner when we first entered a sexual relationship and I made it absoloutley clear that if I ever got pregnant I would never have an abortion. He knew this and he entered willingly (no pun intended)!
Even when you are on the pill you have to accept that there is a small risk of conception involved.
So when we found out we were anxious but we were responsible.
The thing is, when anyone becomes a parent they should become selfless. That is what raising a child is all about. The child should come first and foremost. They are defenseless and innocent and it is our duty as parents to nurture and protect them.
The thought of someone destroying something which I yearned for with such passion is abhorrent to me.
However... that's me. I would never ostracise someone for terminating a pregnancy, it must be a very difficult decision to make, but I would feel very sad if someone I knew had done it.
What I find really disturbing is late abortions. I understand that abortions can be given up to 24 weeks (even later in some extreme cases!!!), but at this age the foetus is fully formed and (apart from lung function) is ready to go!!! These days, we are getting more able to save the lives of babies born earlier & earlier.
Why not wait the other 16 weeks & put the babe up for adoption?
J9
[This message has been edited by j9j9 (edited 05-09-2000).]
It is a beautiful and sacred experience.
My pregnancy was not planned but I also treasured all of those moments. Even though I had other plans before I became pregnant I knew I was biologically ready to be a mother and those feelings took over.
I knew straight away but not everyone's the same. Some take time to come to terms with pregnancy even in planned cases. Some also hate being pregnant but bond wonderfully with the baby when it is born.
Also, I knew a woman that had an abortion because she believed it to be the right decision. I also knew all along that she didn't want an abortion but her boyfriend wanted her to. I advised her against it but she did it anyway and always regretted it. She put her boyfriend and her relationship before her child and she ended up with bitterness and sadness in her heart because of it.
Has she been for counselling? I feel for her, even though it's only words on a screen. I can't think of anything more sad.
J9
my cousin had sex and the jonny split, she told me and i told her 2 get to the docs immediately 4 the mornin after pill, but she never, it eventually became 2 late and her reply 2 me sayin, 'what if u r pregnant?' was 'easy, abortion' i was gobsmacked and told her exactly what i thought of thqat idea.
im not dead againt abortion, i think the only excertion is if the child is going to b so mentally or physically disabled that their life would not b worth living. but even then thats a cruel and tedious decision 2 have 2 make.
if i were faced with the prospect of being pregnant then i would never even contemplate an abortion,no one has the right to kill, even if for acceptable reasons its still murder 2 me.
(please dont take offence as these r my views, every1 has the right 2 their own)
love helly
And Helly, even though your beliefs are the same as mine regarding abortion I would like to say I have known disabled people who would argue that there lives ARE worth living.
I would like to think that if I knew I was going to have a disabled child I would not have an abortion. It would still be my child and I would love it as equally as the others.
What are your thoughts on this?
"...and the world spreads it legs for another fucking star..."
[This message has been edited by *Beetle Wings* (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by *Beetle Wings* (edited 05-09-2000).]
That child didn't ask to be conceived but you decided to open your legs so you should be grown up enough to deal with the consequences if they ever happened .
I hope you are careful enough to never get pregnant. But I suppose it's ok in your eyes because it would not be hard for you to decide to kill your own child.
What kind of person can say that they hate babies? OK, everyone to their own. Not every woman enjoys children but to actually hate them must mean that they have hated themselves at a point in their life. We are all children within.
And if you are not strong enough to deal with anything that life could throw at you stay indoors and keep your legs shut!
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but 'hating babies'? As others familiar with me here will know, I am very open minded and not at all judgmental, but this kind of attitude turns my stomach.
Kids are wonderful, loving, innocent, unpredictable. Anyone that wants to miss out on this must be mad. Also, anyone that says they 'hate' kids should be sterilised!
If a child is conceived and its not what you want you need to realise that life is like that sometimes. You need to deal with these things, not run away from them because you are selfish and its not what YOU want even if it means you have to end an innocent life.
Sometimes we have to grow up quickly when lifes demands it. Its just the way it is and the sooner people grow up and realise that the better in my opinion.
Oh dear, I just know this is gonna be another heated debate!
Why didn't the person who started the thread leave their own opinion?
And hey, I AM selfish! I don't deny it. I'm selfish and I can't help that, it's who I am. So I'd be killing my own baby, I living thing inside me. I'm sorry, but I hate babies and I hate children. They hate me. The feeling is mutual.
"That child didn't ask to be concieved" --Neither did I. But here I am, and at many points in my young life, I've wished I never was concieved.
"If you are not strong enough to deal with anything life could throw at youstay indoors and keep your legs shut!"--It's not that I'm not strong enough, I just wouldn't want a baby to fuck up my life. And hey, I'm not some little slut that goes around fucking everyone. I'm still a virgin, but I know what I think and believe in.
I only expressed my opinion and what I believe. That's what the person who posted about this asked!
Abortion is obviously an option, or it wouldn't be there. Just because some people think it's wrong, other "selfish" people like me don't. There is no right or wrong with things like this.
I probably sound like some messed up, warped teenage bitch with no feelings.
Oh yeah, I am very open minded and not at all judgmental. I simply hate or to sound nicer (like that'll happen) 'don't like' babies and would have an abortion if it came to that. Just because I hate kids I should be sterilised?! Well, that's not a bad idea, actually <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> hehe...
p.s
If it's MY baby, it's up to ME to make a desicion on what to do with it.
Sorry, if I've offended anyone. Please don't hate me, issues like this always bring out the mean side of me. I'm too opinionated I guess.
"...and the world spreads it legs for another fucking star..."
One of the reasons you are allowed to have an abortion is that it would seriously damage your mental health, well it sounds like that if you ever got pregnant this woud definately be a consideration on your part.
How old are you? If you are well past puberty, sterilisation may be a serious consideration when you start to be sexually active. The only problem is, you'll probably have a hard time convincing the gynae that that is what you want.
I know a girl who already had 3 children and she asked to be sterilised, but she was only 25 so she was told that she might meet someone and want more, so they wouldn't do it!!!
She's now got 5 kids & she wishes she'd been sterilised before.
I hope you don't still feel like killing yourself, I've been there & it's no fun.
J9
However, I do not regret that I do hold these opinions. If you read some of my other posts you will realise that I spent many years wishing I hadn't been born because I had been sexually abused as a child so I know where you are coming from in wishing you hadn't been born.
Maybe this is what makes me more protective of innocent children and more angry towards people that hate children.
I don't really think that you do hate them. I think you are using a harsh word. Like I said before, its ok for people to not want kids and to choose not to have kids but to actually hate them is terrible.
I have had a terrible start to my life and I don't hate anybody. All it does is consume you and make you into a bitter person. I've been there and its not a pretty sight.
I don't hate you because of your views and its good to be opinionated. We should all stand up for what we believe in.
Love and Peace, GwaiMui.
This is probably the most emotive and confusing subject that can be discussed on these boards, ie Gwai Mui and Beetle Wings - sitting very much at opposite ends of the spectrum.
Firstly I would definately agree with helly as this is a very personal issue. Everyone will have a differing opinion.
Beetle Wings, you have an absolute right to your point of view, and no-one should be critical of you for having it, though of course they can disagree with you. I have written this post out about a dozen times and still I am thinking about it.
I have always thought if my partner were to have an abortion, it would destroy me - though are there any exceptions?
I can understand why women who have been raped and become pregnant have abortions. I don't think I could cope bringing up a baby conceived this way, though some people do. What do other people think?
I have also changed my opinion concerning if a foetus was in some way disabled. If they are able to sustain full term in the womb, then surely they deserve the right to life.
I accept what helly says, though would hate to think that if instead of myself becoming disabled at 34 years, I had been disabled at 24 weeks, - I might have ended up being aborted!
My eldest daughter was born 8 weeks premature at 32 weeks, so I can not comprehend that at 24 weeks, a baby is not able to feel pain etc, and abortions are available, is this right.
I suppose an issue is what right does a woman have over her body when she is Pregnant? Is it total, or does the foetus have rights as well?
I personally think they do.
Though fortunately I have never been in the situation where abortion was an option, if I were would my attitude change?
I don't know.
regards derby.
I think abortion is okay, but I would like to see the latest termination date pushed back 2 20 weeks. I really don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't think saying "if you're going to spread your legs you can put up with the consequences" is right.
Firstly no form on contraception is fool proof. If the condom bursts, at a time when it would put loads of strain on the mother to have a baby, she should have the right to a termination.
In the case of teenage pregnancies, is is really right that the result of a few hours of stupidity should have to follow someone for life. Most fifteen year olds would find it extremely difficult to cope with the mental and physical strain of pregnancy.
I think that with proper sex education there should eventually be very little or no need for an abortions, in the meantime women should have the right to choose.
As I have never been pregnant, or even a woman, I can't really have the same depth of feeling on this issue as GwaiMui and the like. People who have children of their own will probably feel completely different about this, so sorry if anyone's offended, or I've said something really dumb.
This is why I feel that abortion is not right. How do you know whether or not it is painless for the feotus? If the feotus does feel pain you are putting your own selfish needs first while an innocent baby suffers.
I agree with J9 about the option of adoption. But a girl that is selfish would still rather inflict pain on a child than suffer the pain of pregnancy and child birth and save her child from pain and give it the right to live, a right that should be unquestionable anyway.
Also, I'm sorry but people do need to start taking responsibilty for their actions. If I was totally against having a child and didn't want to take any slight risk I would simply refrain from having sex. I would deprive myself so that I didn't ever have to face the option of killing my own child.
Adoption should not be a choice.
a few months ago, my girlfreind was late by about three weeks, and so we had to look to the fact that she could be pregnant. She was on the pill, but both being informed , we knew that meant that there was still a chance. We sat down and discussed it, trying to figure out what we would do.
My predicament was made worse by the fact that one of my ex's had had a miscarriage when we were 18, and i've never really got over it, always wondering what my son would have been like (he would be 7 now, just starting school). I also knew that my girlfriend was due to start Uni in september and had the next five years planned. she is also epileptic, and we had sad before that we would adopt, as pregnancy could be risky for her. With this in mind I made up my own opinion - she should terminate the pregnancy.
This was hard for me bacuse of the past but i did not want to put her in danger, or alter (i wont say destroy - thats wrong) the rest of our lives, not just the next five years.
When she asked me what i thought, i told her. She said that she was glad, as she had already decided that if i agreed, she would terminate. she felt happy that i would let her make up her mind up, as it was her who had to deal with the physical problems for the next 9 months.
it's hard, but i live with the fact by thinking that if she carried on with the pregnancy, i could risk losing her.
It turned out that she was not pregnant, just stressed out - so it did not come to the conclusion, but we have decided that it is up to her to decide - taking my feelings into account.
I didn't mean it that way. If I had no option other than to have the baby, it's not like I would abuse it. And yes, okay I guess the word 'hate' is pretty harsh. I don't like children. I do not in anyway condone people abusing children because they don't like them. Because that, like most people, makes me sick. I did not realise that you'd been abused as a child, and I'm sorry if I've caused more offense to you with my comments. What I meant by that comment, is that if it's my baby, I'd rather choose to have it aborted. Because it wouldn't have as much love from it's mother as it deserves, I just feel like I would never want a baby, and it would turn my life completely upside down and I wouldn't be able to cope with something I've never wanted.
I don't know if it feels pain or not. But I think that since the pain wouldn't last for hardly any time, it's better than the life time of pain it would knowing that's it's mother never wanted or gave it up for adoption.
I shouldn't have to stop myself from ever having sex just because I don't want a baby. Humans are the only animal that has sex for pleasure, not just to reproduce. I don't see why I should stop myself from having that pleasure. Yes, that's right, I know that sounded VERY VERY selfish, but it's they way I think sometimes. Oh yeah, someone asked me my age, I'm 14. I guess I probably seem very... strong minded (?) for my age.
Once again, I'm VERY VERY sorry for any offence caused to anyone. This is a personal issue and see how people who like kids and who have kids feel differently about it. But you're not me and I'm not you. So you can't put yourself in my shoes and I can't put myself in yours.
Peace and Happieness to All,
*Beetle* xxx
"...and the world spreads it legs for another fucking star..."
why should adoption not be an option?
J9
I get really angry when I think about an innocent child being hurt in any way and I guess it makes me say some really harsh things because I don't understand it.
Don't feel bad about airing your opinions to me, BeetleWings because of my past. I don't like it if people have to walk on eggshells around me because I am upfront and I appreciate it when other people are upfront with me too.
I also appreciate your consideration of my feelings and hearing your views in more depth without the use of the word 'hate' has made me somewhat more considerate of yours too.
I guess I just see red when it comes to babies and children being harmed, its just the way I am.
Its probably because I am a mother that has been abused as a child that makes me more protective of my own child and of others.
Sorry if any offence has been caused.
Love and Peace,
GwaiMui.
I have just been reading through again and realised that you think I disagree with adoption. I actually am a strong supporter of adoption and one of my biggest dreams is to adopt a child at some point in the future.
I am against abortion and did say it shouldn't be an option but after hearing BeetleWings say that she wouldn't be able to care for a baby maybe it should be an option.
I don't really know. Personally, I would rather see people in this situation put their kids up for adoption but we cannot control people's actions.
I am still anti-abortion but I am trying to be more sympathetic.
at the bottom of your message on the 5th.
(20:02).
Did you mean to type abortion should not be a choice?
I'm glad we agree with each other.
I would just love to be able to afford to buy a big house and fill it with children. We invite groups of children over from the radiation damaged country of Belarus every year. The children are aged between 8 & 14 and stay with host families (2 per family) for a month. It's so rewarding, We hosted for the first time in Sept 1999 to Pawlik & Lyosha and this year we formed our own link and hosted the interpreter.
Anyway, I'm off at a tangent again.
J9
This is what a two year old does to your brain!
Anyway, its great what you are doing. My husband and I want to adopt a little girl from China when we are in our 30s.
I have a theory that when you are pregnant you lose 25% of your brain capacity, and then 25% of what's left with every subsequent child!!! lol
I've wanted to do that ever since I saw an article in the Daily Mail about the dieing rooms. Funniliy enough, I think that primed me for getting involved with the Chernobyl Children Life Line www.chernobylchildlifeline.org
J9
People should learn to take responsibility for their actions, but should they have to devote years of their life to someone at an age when they couldn't cope with the emotional strain?
I'm not saying all teenage pregnancies are bad, I'm just saying that in exeptional circumstances women should have the right to choose. Lets keep it sweet. This is a very emotional issue, so I apologise in advance for any offense my views might cause. Stay calm people!
(i dont think i explained that v.well, but i know what i mean, please dont take offence)
Stephen Hawkins is a genius, but in fifteen years he'll look like just another vegetable, even though his mind is intact.
Good idea in theory but how do you judge when they no longer have a life? Keep em comming.