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And I can bet that every user on this board with an ounce of sense can tell that you are just itching for an excuse to use one of your weapons.
Prove me wrong.
How are people being punished?
For not being allowed to own something which they have no right to in the first place?
As before you forget that you approach this from a different starting point. We don't see owning guns as an inalienable right. once you get over that step you will find our position easier to understand.
I might also point out that as Saddam has never used a nuclear weapon, however the US position would be to prevent him from having one on the basis of what he might do. Same argument really, although at an extreme.
I thought that selfdefence was a basic right.
I am dreading the day were I'll be saying "If...".
Prefer to be the one staying intact, when confronting a possible danger.
Do you feel unsafe because you don't carry a gun?
Know what has had the biggest effect on me, when speaking about this issue?
Actually being in a situation where bullets were flying in the near.
The fact that I had no protection, and pretty useless for my own safety, is a thing which leaves permanent trails, and makes me more determined on having that protection in the future.
Though, me having that needed protection won't be due until approximately another 3-4 years.
Glad to see that you continue to harp on your claims of psychiatric expertise, even when it is directly contradicted by those who are the experts and have made it their business to study the reality of the mindset. You have received your education from the popular media, I take it?
You cannot guarantee total security. If you were inside that theatre in Moscow having a gun would be worth fuck all, because if you dare to shoot 1 terrorist dead, even 9 of them, you'd still have 41 left who would obliterate you the next second.
How many situations are you likely to be involved in that you will need a gun to save your life? The problem with everyone carrying guns, as it is the case in the US, is that once someone pulls a firearm, even if it is because of a dispute or a drunken fight, other armed people with draw theirs, and deaths will likely occur. Thus the gun carriers who survive the encounter will state how having a gun saved their lives by shooting the other guys first.
If guns are illegal there will be still a very small minority of criminals who still carry them, but it will mean that tens of millions of other guns are removed from the streets. The average citizen of a country where guns are illegal will never be in need of one to defend his life. Remembering that we don't shoot at people who's coming at us with a bottle or a billiard cue in their hands, unless you are mugged by armed robbers almost nobody will be in a situation where a gun is needed to defend themselves. Not in Britain or most of Europe anyway.
Sadly in the US mass gun ownership has turned the whole country into a bad Spaghetti Western movie to the extreme where people like Thanatos feel the need of taking an AK-47 to do the grocery shopping to be safe.
Is that where you want us to head for?
A gun would have been helpful then? Start firing and draw attention to yourself as a target? Legitimise the actions of those shooting at you? If you're caught in intense crossfire, you really think that with one gun you're going to be able to take out all the shooters alone?
In a relatively peaceful country, or continent you don't need a weapon.
In a country where everyone is scared of their own shadow, like the US you do.
You can live in paranoia, ever wary that you may need your gun.
You can sleep peaceful at night, blissfully unaware that in the USA more people die at the hands of a mattress than they do from an injury sustained from a gunshot wound.
Oh, and do be careful of your family, there's twice as much chance that a younger family member will shoot you than an armed robber.
1. So called common sense isn't common.
2. You obviously don't possess it.
I suggest you look up the names that I posted.
Remember the shootings in the LA airport, right by the El-Al stand, on the American independence day this year?
Remember how even more damage was prevented?
A result of a trained guard, with a gun.
My experience was with what you would call a "terrorist shooting", and I do certainly believe that if placed at the right spot, making the right calculations, being a trained carrier, then someone can indeed protect themself from these things.
A gun can't provide total security, but it can be a very helpful and useful tool when needed. In the end, I am the one to pull the trigger, it's not the gun doing as it pleases.
So while the criminals continue with what they do, the rest should raise their shoulders and say "yes, ok"?
I don't believe that making guns illegal, will reduce the number of them flourishing around in criminal communities. When an anti-gun lawis made, suddenly someone who is already criminal, will choose to obey to that certain law? Of course not.
Now it's even easier for him to fulfill his work, than before.
I do feel secure, being where I am. But I'll tell you, just going to that "other" part of town, mingling with the wrong kind of people can turn out to be fatal.
Just last week, a 16 year old guy was murdered due to an argument over a small amount of hash. Just a couple of grams, really. That was around 20-30 minutes away from where I live.
This guy got stabbed, but the meaning is the same. You really, never know.
I can only try to make a difference. Not change the world (though I highly wish I could). And when guns among criminals occur more and more often, then I think that I have the right to selfdefence.
How, am I legitimising any of their acts, by acting in selfdefence? This isn't even regarded as one of those "evil spirals". It's simple selfdefence. Not shooting for the sake of it.
Going out with the white flag, recieving the situation and not doing anything (if it's in my power), is really not the way I want to lead my life.
In a situation when surrounded by several shooters, then maybe there is less of a chance "overcoming" them. But take a situation with one of them, or two?
I really don't think that any of the people getting guns, on the basis of personal security, ever hope to use it. It's there as a precaution. At least that's the way I view it personally.
Bill Hicks.
I liked Bill Hicks, I thought that he was extremely funny before he died, although I don't understand the 'communist' bit of the above passage.
The best answer to these situations is within your post Jacqueline. 'Trained guard or gun carrier'. I agree with that. Perhaps we should have more armed police on the streets to deal with these situations. Maybe there are not near enough cops around, and this makes us feel insecure. But allowing the entire civilian population of a country to assume the role of policemen and carry firearms is not the answer. As I said, the great majority of people will never find themselves in such situation. We cannot just allow tens of millions of people to carry arms because 10 of them might get murdered every year (not that having a gun is any guarantee of surviving anyway. If someone attacks you from behind or has a knife hidden up their sleeve they'd stab you before you have a chance of producing your gun).
Re: criminals having guns whilst the rest doesn't. The thing is, there are actually VERY FEW incidents each year in which law-abiding citizens will see themselves looking at the business end of a gun barrel. Most armed criminals are no drug addict muggers. They deal in drugs or do armed robberies, and the man in the street will not cross their path that often. The price to pay for arming the whole population so a few people can avoid having their wallets taken is simply too high.
Thanatos has said many times he wouldn't go anywhere without his guns and his assault rifle. As I said earlier, I pity the community in which its citizens don't feel safe doing their weekly shopping without taking an AK-47 with them.
Bit of a fucking nutter aren't you!
Since when? I proved you wrong already. There are 30 crimes involving a weapon per 100,000 people in the UK. I the USA it is 506.
You can try and twist it as much as you like, but at the end of the day you're wrong. The UK isn't heading the way of the USA, and it won't as long as guns aren't readily available.
As for the pyshchiatrists, there's no such thing as an expert in the human mind. The only thing that is sure about the art (it isn't a science that's for sure) is that every result can be interpreted differently. Being in the second year of a criminology degree also makes me far more qualified than you anyway.
And for every 2 pyschiatrists you can think of who support guns there will be 10 in attendance who don't.
It's just a surprising coincidence that those 2 are also American, and live in states where guns are legal.
Your a bit arogant aren't you. Being in the second year of your criminology degree means you know less than squat about anything. I have a criminal justice degree and over 20 years of police experiance, and my experiance tells me that a house that has a gun is safer than one without one in the USA. The police do not have any responsibility to protect individuals, only society. They might respond to your urgent 911 call, or they might be busy elsewhere. Policing is reactive vs proactive. Meaning police respond to crimes after they happen not before. If four men enter my home with baseball bats. I can call 911 and hope the police arrive, because if they don't I can't fight against four men without a gun and myself and my family will be at their mercy. If I had a gun and was faced with the same situation I would still call 911 if possible and try to get my family into a safe room in the house. I would then tell the intruders I was armed and that they could take anything they like unless they come towards the room I am in. If they approached I would shoot them.
Given your concept of 'safety' Greenhat, I presume you would've been happy as Larry living in Taleban-ruled Afghanistan. Every other bloke armed to the teeth and swift justice for anyone who dares as much as to listen to the radio, let alone mug people... I bet Kabul had the lowest street crime levels in the world.
LMAO
Have you looked up those names?
Funny thing. The UN has already indicated that the UK has a higher incidence of violent crime than the US. Or do you all conveniently forget that?
As for Taleban-ruled Afghan land, not everyone was armed. Only those who the Taleban chose to allow to be armed. Kind of like the UK. A little research please.
A piece of information that you, Greenhat and Sopite all need to remember. 90% of the people on these boards, including myself come from BRITAIN. NOT AMERICA. Therefore, your knowledge of the criminal justice system, and experience in the police means even less to me than my knowledge does to you.
And yes, I did look up those names. No mention of research into gun owners anywhere on their websites. I recall the woman being a researcher into schizophrenia, and the guy is a professor for a university, looking into issues with the mind.
Like I said before, pyschiatry isn't a science. The mind, and research into the mind is entirely subjective.
You forgot to mention that both are award-winning scientists (funny, if it isn't a science, how is it science awards are given in the field?).
One is currently doing a study on courage and resilency, part of which is studying people who carry guns (soldiers and Marines, as it happens).
The other was involved in a study on the ability of people to learn to cope with stress through continued exposure to stressful environments and training (members of the US Army Special Forces being some of the test subjects - oh, they carry guns, too). I have an autographed copy of that particular study.
For what you call a subjective field, consistent statistical evidence shows up on a very regular basis. Evidence that directly contradicts your "common sense".
As for where you are in the world, it really doesn't matter does it? Either you are free citizens, or you are subjects. Which are you?
So would you be so kind as to post up this 'consistent statistical evidence'?
You know, the stuff from the two psychitrists whose main field of research is Schizophrenia and Obsessive-Compulsive disorders.
You can go to your local library (you do have those, don't you?) and find the appropriate articles in the journals...
Yep, I'm lazy. I'm not going to scan them in.
You dont have the statistics 'greenhat' <giggles> because they dont exist. There are none. It was all just a figment of your tiny little mind. This parrot is dead......etc.....etc...
Since you're so cosy with the ideas of psychiatry, I thought I'd post up a link to the Personality disorders in the paranoid-narcissistic spectrum.
Happy reading
Maybe you should watch, and learn a bit about who you are dealing with on these boards.
Just a mild suggestion, before you get something slammed back in your face, which will be difficult (if not impossible) to remove.
But as said, that's just a mild suggestion, coming from the board's little and naive Danish girl :rolleyes:
*twiddles thumbs and starts rolling hair around finger*
That's no way to talk to a newbie :eek:
I take it that I've been deleted from your christmas card list then
The fact that a naive Danish girl would agree with their clearly distinguishable skewed view on the world and especially their view on the value of arming every last man woman and child in a csociety when all credible evidence shows it only increases paranoia and violence in that society (US a perfect case in point) is a sad indictment on your naivetee.
But it takes all types from enlightened to ignorant to make society flourish so if ignorance is your cup of tea, revel in it i suppose.
My comment was triggered, by his way of replying to Greenhat, but *expects shock and horror* I was actually thinking about this board in general. :yes:
Suggesting him to watch and learn about the manners, and people making these boards.
onenatcons, tried the same route as him, didn't really succeed did he?
Not in gaining respect or staying on the board.
But I am sorry "to anyone who uses their brain", about not making myself clear.
Naivity...
At least people who really are naive have the excuse of not knowing.
While refusers, have the excuse of...?
"Ignorance can be bliss, but refusing knowledge is an act of cowards."
Want to comment about me being little as well?
Sure you can find a lot of justification...
Oh, my!
Moooooooooooommy, I got called ignorant... :crying:
And by who?
Maybe the fact that it comes from you, should make me take it as a compliment?
But dear, watch your steps before coming whith such suggestions.
The stairs surrounding me, tend to be very slippery, if approaching the the wrong way.
And a reminder: Naivity does not equal ignorance.
(The English lesson of the day; Taught to you by Jacq the Ripper- the little and Naive Danish girl :thumb: )