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You mean like Cambodia was better off after we abandoned it? Or the Dega? Or maybe you mean like Europe would have been better off if we had left it to Hitler and Stalin and not involved ourselves?
And we'll all be particularly well off when Saddam explodes his first nuclear device, or poisons his first major western cities water or air, won't we? :rolleyes:
By the way, how much "empowering" of people have you done there in Brussels? :rolleyes:
Dont be more of an arse than usual Greenhat, it doesnt do anything for your credibility.
Entirely poor form to bring reality to a debate, as you leave your opponent completely impotent...
Hey Greenhat, nice little cadre of fuzzy little yes men youve managed to assemble. Feeling in need of group rebuttal tactics?
Not so rich as the self styled supremist/elitest mired within his own mediocrity avoiding the issue and attacking them not so constrained by an inability to see what is being shoved into their face.
Speaking of being an arse, your first statement sets new "heights" to the term assholish or is that arseholish?
Either way, you do know where you are, or do you??
It is odd that you are still here.. All you do is insult people and this is acceptable behavior?
No matter what the issue is, you move to insulting others. That is less than remedial...
Well, perhaps the admin's take pity upon those that lack the mind to debate issues.. Is that all you have to offer, pity.
I'd tell you to go play in traffic, but you might and I would be banned for a death suggestion to some one daft enough to do it..
It must be Hell to have flunked a brainscan...
Don't start thinking now, you'll spoil a perfect record..
I would imagine the Admin's already checked.. However, banning some and leaving trash like you about, what can I say...
Me thinks that Greenhat has an accurate perspective, both to quality and content of the clandestine position...
From Thailand, I've helped to demine Cambodia and Laos. From Thailand, I've assisted people in growing better crops, understanding sanitation, and learning basic first aid throughout South East Asia (with the notable exceptions of Myanmar and Vietnam). From Thailand, I've assisted in training law-enforcement and military personnel from all of ASEAN in dealing with bombs and the aftermath of bombs. From Thailand, I've assisted this country in defending its borders from Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar. From Thailand, I've spent lots of time speaking with people from Malaysia, Indonesia and Southern Thailand building relationships and data to help in our current war.
Would you like to be introduced to some Dega? You can ask them about what I do to "empower" people.
Meih nyei domh-mienh mbuqc ziexdauh?
Pom ru eee hia.
{Apologies to everyone else, but the meanings of the Mien and Lao above are only too appropriate.}
So, remind me of your credibility?
As for what I have done:
I have been an observer in the initial election process that saw the end of the Apartheid system in South Africa and the election of Mandela, assisted in the planning for the resolution of the Macedonian crisis and a return to stable democratic infrastructure following the civil uprising; been on the ground in Rwanda as a special envoy to assist in aiding local leaders to rebuild in the aftermath of the massacres, and have since been or am involved involved in numerous activities such as the cessation of violence in Sierra Leone and several IMF and World Bank debt settlement issues regarding several developing nations.
Not that any of this matters in resolving our difference of opinion on how to handle the current Iraqi crisis.
Clandestine, you've avoided the issues because mudslinging is all you have...
I expect no man to bow to me.
Nor do I accept another's constant inference that any one that disagrees with him is part of a gang or some conspiracy..
BTW-
Did you read that links between the palestinian terrorists to Iraq and Iran have been established.
That members of palestinian terrorist groups were trained in Iraq!
About the huge amounts of cash that come from Iran and Iraq to Arafat.. With that bankroll, one would assume he could spend a pittance on the people.. But no..
There was a lot of great information put out this weekend.. Shame you will ignore it all..
Self denial or just being stubborn?
Just remember, the muslim fundimentalists are being open and honest..They want all of us to cease to exist..
But you deny that also...
Clandestineville were denial is a way of life.
I am not surprised that Palestinian terrorists have trained in Iraq. They have also trained in Pakistan, but is Bush sharpening his sword to invade Pakistan as well? Don't think so and he'd only make matters worse political and security wise for the US if he did.
As for comments ive been reading about me ignoring comments, well old boy, since you wandered into this debate late, I will reiterate that I began these discussions in earnest with plenty of credible deocumented backing which received no response other than flaming from people such as yourself. Sosince noone could could produce anything credible to counter my points but chose to lower the argument into the realm of petty insult, I decided long ago to stop wasting valuable analysis on this board.
I do find it humorous though that this thread concerns links between Al Queda and Iraq, not Palestinians and Iraq, but i suppose its okay for you to dodge the issues as long as I don't is that it? lol.
I really dont have the slightest concern to keep defending myself against childish flaming or to have to listen to the like of Sopite who hasnt said one substantial thing since he got here, just insults. assumptions, and clever name twisting.
So there is your point answered.
People are acting as if this is some kind of new situation, it was only fairly recently that the Cold War ended (Unstable and hostile nation ruled by dictator and with capacity for mass destruction).....
It'll only lead to stalemate, if he does have then then surely it is more dangerous to inavde than to not invade....
One fact is certain in all this analysis, Bush is isolating the US and undoing decades of diplomatic coalition building, scoffing at international law by exercising the kind of double standard (i.e. regarding the BWC) that one would expect of such a practised double-talker, and moving our nation to a posture that will only invite more terrorist activity.
The militaristic myopia of the hawks is becoming increasingly clear in international policy discussions which i have been party to, insofar as it only aims at destorying men and equipment and those training facilities which we are able to uncover. It does nothing to strike at the root cause of terorism itself which is a combination of poverty, lack of opportunity, oppressive regimes, and America's historical support for those regimes. Even now, it is clear that Bush & Co. apply their rhetoric discrimately which does nothing to enhance credibility for any element of their case however viable some of those points may be.
At the end of it all, the hawks may have descended on these boards because what is emergining in political circles both in Washington and abroad is that the US administration has gone over the top with its vitriolic remarks toward those that wont line up with them when Bush snaps his fingers.
My projection from all Ive been involved with in the past 9 months is that Bush will leave a legacy of smugness behind when his term is finished and that whoever succeeds him will face the repercussions of the arrogance and hypocrisy which currently characterises our foreign policy. Moreover, with the precedent of using unilateral force to resove conflicts having thus been set by this administration, we will be seeing other nations increasingly taking it upon themselves to attack their neighbours for whatever reason suits their political interests.
All this adds up to greater instability and insecurity, not more.
Of course, the Bush family will have gotten what they wanted in monetary form from its strong links to the military industrial complex, so at least they will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Analysis of WHAT? What data? What information? Oh yeah, your sources don't actually have any. :rolleyes:
Ever been in a terrorist organization, Clandestine? Know anyone that has been or is? You are attempting to apply your sense of reason and motivation to terrorists. It doesn't work. Never has.
Poverty? Take a look again. Terrorists have a tendency to be well-off, not in poverty. Lack of Opportunity? Ah, yes...that horrid lack of opportunity that Patty Hearst had...or Osama Bin Laden..or Arafat. Oppressive regimes? Hmmmm...might argue that was true of the UK in the 19th century...even the early 20th...but how do you explain the IRA in the 1980s? The fact is that none of those are at the root of why terrorism happens. Terrorism has been with the world since before the Roman Empire, and will be with us until the end of our days because terrorism appeals to unbalanced people who desire a cause for their hatred.
Your "reasons" for terrorism existing are simply untrue. So addressing those reasons does nothing but pander to your political bias while continuing to allow terrorists free reign. And those approaches have been tried...and failed. Terrorism responds to the same treatment wild dogs respond to. Extermination.
By and large the conscripts which undertake most of the dirty work are recruited from background rooted in deprivation. This is the breeding ground of hatred and loss of hope for a better future.
Its the lazy man's analysis to say that every conscript to these "causes" are mentally inbalanced without further examination into the socio-economic context in which they find themselves.
And let's try for the sake of the rules here to avoid personal slights from here on in shall we? You seem to be stuck in the rut of continual assumption about what i know or do not based on what I care to post here, and that is poor analysis indeed for one with your credentials Greenhat.
This profiling of the root causes of terrorism are far from mere speculation, it is rather common knowledge from exhaustive shared expertise across a range of international think tanks. Im sure if you took time to examine more than the military take on things youd see plenty of other people out here are analysing the situation in minute detail with equal if not greater thoroughness. Moreover, the matter of our current return to negligence of Afghanistan in the aftermath of our overthrow of the Taliban is an open nbook. Even Karzai himself has been clamouring for the US and UK to make good on their promise of nation building.
Nevertheless, since (as you have said before) we are not at liberty to divulge sources involved in ongoing discussions, we are left to voice considered opinion here.
Remember that both Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are fully paid up members and former (or current) active members of the IRA...
Ah, yes....those thinktanks that have no experience within or with terrorist organizations. :rolleyes:
Isn't it interesting that every person ever infiltrated into a terrorist organization disagrees with those conclusions? As do most, if not all, of those terrorists who have become disenchanted with their organizations? But first hand intelligence is of no interest to the analysts...
As for MOK's comment, I doubt it was aimed at me, because I've mentioned before that most terrorist organizations are motivated by greed and power, not ideology at all. That is certainly true of the organizations found in the Middle East, especially the PLO and its offspring, and it is certainly true of the IRA. Terrorists have more in common with La Cosa Nostra than with any political party.