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The chief medical officer and the state of the nation: e-cigarettes and beyond...

**helen****helen** Deactivated Posts: 9,235 Supreme Poster
I read this pretty full-on interview in New Scientist last week.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25319-dont-let-vaping-obesity-and-boozing-become-norms.html#.UzwAEvldVyU

What would you like to say to Sally Davies, given the chance?

And should there be a moral panic about e-cigarettes?


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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really don't like the way that e-cigarettes are somehow seen as ok. I was in a restaurant at the weekend and there was someone in there using one. Was really unpleasant. They almost seem to be becoming the latest fashion accessory.
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    Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Posts: 876 Part of The Mix Family
    Why is it unpleasant? There's no smell and the vapour dissipates...
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    E cigs are generally ok. They are much healthier, cheaper, smell less and are harmless to those around you.
    Theyve also helped me give up smoking.
    Weekender Offender 
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    The woman in the article is an idiot. Just because ejuice is flavoured does not mean its marketed at kids. Do adults not like flavours too.
    Most of the websites that sell juice will only do so to over 18s despite the fact theres no law to say they have too.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think they need to regulate e-cigarettes but that's up to the government to sort out! I know what goes into mine because I know the people that make the stuff and it's made in the UK. But I don't think she knows quite how hard it is especially when you have other health issues to keep your weight at a healthy level and how hard it is for people who work 40+ hour weeks doing sedentary jobs. Modern life doesn't make it easy!
    She makes no suggestions as to how people should do these thing she just says it's bad - people know, and I think body image and self esteem is not high in the UK and things need to be done to change it.
    Yes it's partly the industry changing salt/sugar/fat levels but if schools aren't teaching healthy eating and cooking (home ec/food tec should be a compulsory subject to GCSE level IMO).

    It's very easy to point the finger and judging but things like my local NHS offering 6 weeks free with slimming world isn't helpful because 6 weeks won't help and eating fat free biscuits and all the other shit places like that advocate rather than proper food isn't good either! There's no holistic approach to these things!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It feels like the key points with e cigarettes that often gets missed is that they are an improvement on the non e kind. That doesn't mean that they are a healthy option, they're just less bad.

    Yes the vapour dissipates, but not instantly. I think my main concern is that the up sides get a lot of image, and the downsides brushed under the carpet.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    They are much less bad.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think they're a step in the right direction, I'm still not happy that they're used indoors, although I think that is more from a "eurgh, how rude" personal way than anything. When you're used to not seeing anyone smoke indoors for so long you get used to it.

    My other concern is how many kids will now begin using them who wouldn't normally have started smoking? The schools I work in are already confiscating bucket loads, although that might be more because the kids are using them openly instead of trying to hide them like they do ciggies.
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    Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Posts: 876 Part of The Mix Family
    It feels like the key points with e cigarettes that often gets missed is that they are an improvement on the non e kind. That doesn't mean that they are a healthy option, they're just less bad.

    Yes the vapour dissipates, but not instantly. I think my main concern is that the up sides get a lot of image, and the downsides brushed under the carpet.

    But there's nothing in the thing apart from nicotine. As a smoker, those things are a God send. Yeah of course it's not instant otherwise there would be no vapour and the user couldn't feel it hit the throat, which is a main thing for me. It doesn't make a room hazy though like smoke would, its gone in a matter of seconds.
    Skive wrote: »
    They are much less bad.
    ^that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not arguing that they're not less bad, I'm just trying to make the point that they're not good. Which doesn't seem to be a popular message, and one that is often argued against and risks conveying the wrong message.

    I also find it interesting that they haven't been formally recognised as an aide to quitting - which makes me wonder why.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I see both sides about e-cigs. I don't like seeing them used indoors, but I think some of that is because people doing it are clearly just doing it for attention or to look edgy. They're still pumping the user full of shit and I'm not convinced they're not doing the same to people next to the user. But they don't have the tar in that normal cigs do, which can only be a good thing.

    They're better than smoking real cigs, but not as good as not smoking at all.

    I found the rest of her interview to be far more unhelpful. Just like her predecessor, she's long on hectoring judgmental lectures and short on solutions. I'm fat. This isn't because I'm stupid, or because I don't know the risks, or because I'm just some weakling who can't stop mainlining the Big Macs. I don't think I'm normal sized, or "big boned". Being talked to like I'm a particularly retarded toddler- that I'm just not taking enough "personal responsibility", whatever the hell that is- is not going to help. Having lost six stone I have plenty of restraint; I just didn't have enough to stop drinking too much and eating shite when I got divorced.

    If she thinks that people are only fat because they don't have enough "personal responsibility" then she's clearly completely lacking in the knowledge and empathy required to do her job. And she should be sacked immediately as a result.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    I see both sides about e-cigs. I don't like seeing them used indoors, but I think some of that is because people doing it are clearly just doing it for attention or to look edgy.

    It makes you look like a tit do i dont really agree with that. Most people smoke them indoors because it means you can enjoy them with your drink without going into the cold.

    The only harmful chemical is nicotine, which in the scheme of things isnt that bad. The vast majority of whats exhausted is vapour, a very different thing to smoke. Same as standing by a steaming kettle.

    More research is needed but lets stop the manny state attitude if banning shit despite a kack of evidence and start banning shut based on good research and evidence.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Got no problem with them, but it pisses me off that people can smoke them in the college canteen and I have to trek across the field in the rain for a fag.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    The only harmful chemical is nicotine, which in the scheme of things isnt that bad. The vast majority of whats exhausted is vapour, a very different thing to smoke. Same as standing by a steaming kettle.

    I'm not sure what is exhausted from the e-cig. I know it's not tar, which is the important thing, but it doesn't smell like pure water. It smells a lot more like something you'd get from a smoke machine or similar.

    I wouldn't want to see them banned.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wouldn't want to see them banned either - just treated in an appropriate manner.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    E-cigs have quite clearly demonstrated that the denigration of smoking was rarely about it harming other people.
    I was in a restaurant at the weekend and there was someone in there using one. Was really unpleasant.

    Haha, seriously?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't underestimate the power of the cigarette companies to destroy the threat of e-cigs on their bottom line profits. E-cigs aren't 'healthy' but they certainly are NOT in the same class as the poisons produced from smoking tobacco.
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