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Margaret Thatcher has died

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Annaarrr!! wrote: »
    sure you have the right, but it would mean you're being extremely disrespectful, and hence a dick.

    Disrespectful of a spiteful old hag who I'm delighted is dead? Hell yeah.

    But on the scale of dickishness: me < giving a £10m funeral to a war criminal.
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    Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Posts: 876 Part of The Mix Family
    Its being respectful of the dead in general. Its nothing to do with the fact its her.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Like I said earlier, I don't think simply being dead earns anyone any more respect that they deserved when alive. But celebrating somebody's death when it doesn't change anything can only be an act of malice, even if they were the most evil person in history.
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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Annaarrr!! wrote: »
    sure you have the right, but it would mean you're being extremely disrespectful, and hence a dick.
    If being disrespectful towards Thatcher makes me a dick then sign me up as a 9 inch erect knob.
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    Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Posts: 876 Part of The Mix Family
    JsT wrote: »
    If being disrespectful towards Thatcher makes me a dick then sign me up as a 9 inch erect knob.
    Make up for everyday life does it? I'm sorry. Couldn't resist. Pointless getting into arguments bout it I've said my bit, carry on doing whatever you wanna do just seeing people celebrate another persons death is grim
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Annaarrr!! wrote: »
    Make up for everyday life does it? I'm sorry. Couldn't resist. Pointless getting into arguments bout it I've said my bit, carry on doing whatever you wanna do just seeing people celebrate another persons death is grim

    Growing up in and around Yorkshire mining communities I was never going to be a fan....
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    Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Posts: 876 Part of The Mix Family
    I know, but its still disrespectful. If hitler had a grave I wouldn't go and piss/dance on it.
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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Never said I would....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Annaarrr!! wrote: »
    sure you have the right, but it would mean you're being extremely disrespectful, and hence a dick.

    no, a hero!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    spend your life trying to live up to some misguided sense of being respectful, and nothing will EVER change. They LOVE idiots like you. Youve soaked up all the bullshit theyve wanted to spin, with such ease
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    Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Posts: 876 Part of The Mix Family
    I don't get how being respectful FOR THE DEAD will do anything? Just cos I don't run around making disgusting remarks about someone who is dead doesn't mean I particularly liked what they did in their life. How you can call me an idiot for not being a prick is beyond me
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why should we be respectful for the dead?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you expect us to be respectful of every single dead person ever, that's a bit ridiculous... There were some vile people in the world, and she was one of them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So by some peoples reckoning, those who dont turn up to the funeral to protest, obviously didnt dislike her that much? Death, whether of a loved or hated figure is not a competition and acting like a dick (in general) does not mean you are the winner of the "I Hate Thatcher" award.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im not going to protest at the funeral. I hated her
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In fact, in some ways, I think the massive over expenditure on the rich while making hugely draconian cuts to the people already in poverty, will be the final nail in the coffin for the tories. I bet they never get voted in again.

    Not that they were voted in last time. Fraudsters.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why are the dead automatically deserving of respect? Respect is earned in death just as it is in life. Thatcher earned lots of respect from her favoured few because she bought it. For those whose lives she destroyed she didn't.

    If I didn't respect someone in life I'm not going to respect them in death. Why should I?

    I'm not going to protest the funeral because, actually, other than the cost and inconvenience I don't give a toss. And I work less than a mile from St Paul's.

    She's dead but her legacy lives on. Her legacy of selfishness, of greed, of stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Her legacy is the biggest inequality between rich and poor since feudalism. That's the thing we need to focus on fighting.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    respecting the dead is just superstition
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the reason not to celebrate death is more along the lines of it dehumanising us, not the dead people. Death bothers me, it upsets me, and I don't want to change that by having a party every time someone I disliked for one reason or another dies.

    Not going to stop anyone else doing it though, and maybe it is superstition as Suzy says. But i care more about having my values than I care about sticking it to the man.

    Perhaps a more appropriate 'action' would be a vigil in remembrance of all the victims of the conservatives governments actions. Thatcher was just a figurehead at the end of the day, a product of a time and place (leadership of the tory party at a time of civil strife) as much as any of us.

    I don't like to credit people too much for their success as many things in life are dice rolls, just as I won't scorn people too much for their failures.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I think the reason not to celebrate death is more along the lines of it dehumanising us, not the dead people. Death bothers me, it upsets me, and I don't want to change that by having a party every time someone I disliked for one reason or another dies.

    I agree with this.

    As someone (G, I think?) said up the thread, there is a subtle but very important difference between respecting the dead and being respectful of death. I don't think we should necessarily respect individuals who have died, particularly if we didn't like them while they were alive, but I do think we should be respectful of death, because it's coming for us all.

    I can understand people wanting to protest specifics, like the spending of so much public money on her funeral in a time of austerity, but simply celebrating her death makes me uneasy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't celebrate the death of Gadaffi, Pinochet, oor Hussein; I will not celebrate Thatchers death. In comparison her acts were gentler, although more keenly felt because they were closer.

    Do not lecture on respect when she stole the self-respect of so many people; do not lecture on compassion when (while she is reported to have had great compassion for individuals) she had no compassion for people as a whole.

    I won't celebrate her death, but I will defend the right of those who wish to do so; I won't celebrate her death, but I will protest at those who wish to depict her as a harmless old woman or as the Iron Lady without whom Britain would have disappeared.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I think the reason not to celebrate death is more along the lines of it dehumanising us, not the dead people.

    If the Conservative Party want to celebrate her life, and get me to pay for it, then I am perfectly entitled to celebrate her death. Which I think is the issue here. If celebrating her death "dehumanises" that, by implication, means that celebrating her life makes someone "more human". I don't think that is true or accurate.

    If she was having a quiet private family burial then protesting about it would, of course, be wholly inappropriate. But she's not. The Tory filth are rubbing our faces in it by spunking ten million quid of state money on a massive ticker-tape parade of how wonderful she was for destroying communities and families and handing the proceeds to Gordon Gekko.

    It's funny isn't it, how Small State Capitalism is fantastic for other people, but not for themselves. If the subhuman Tory scum want a ticker tape parade they should get subscriptions to pay for it, and to compensate me for the inconvenience on Wednesday.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In fact, in some ways, I think the massive over expenditure on the rich while making hugely draconian cuts to the people already in poverty, will be the final nail in the coffin for the tories. I bet they never get voted in again.

    Not that they were voted in last time. Fraudsters.

    Worryingly there does appear to be the possibility of a silent majority in terms of welfare reforms, which whilst I disagree with, I wouldn't write off the Conservatives just yet. I can imagine Labour getting into power though, and trying to spend their way to further election victory(s).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Worryingly there does appear to be the possibility of a silent majority in terms of welfare reforms, which whilst I disagree with, I wouldn't write off the Conservatives just yet. I can imagine Labour getting into power though, and trying to spend their way to further election victory(s).

    i wouldnt say spend their way, but rearrange the spending
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i wouldnt say spend their way, but rearrange the spending

    Fair point, I must clarify I actually meant spend more but rearranging would be quite a lot easier. I think it will be a bit harder for Labour next time round, mainly because they have been such weak opposition. Though things are looking up for Ed Miliband, turns out he did a fair bit of work and soldiered on whilst having a broken wrist. Has to be some plus points for him.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the Conservative Party want to celebrate her life, and get me to pay for it, then I am perfectly entitled to celebrate her death. Which I think is the issue here. If celebrating her death "dehumanises" that, by implication, means that celebrating her life makes someone "more human". I don't think that is true or accurate.

    I didn't mean to put it in that way. Maybe my terminology is off. What I mean, is that I, personally, feel we lose something in ourselves by taking joy in death. We don't need to grieve that death, I just choose not to take pleasure in it. I don't think other people need to be held to what I feel, it's a personal decision.

    I think objecting to how her death is being used to let DC and Co raid the public coffers for a tory political campaign is a wholly different thing though. Which is why I'm disappointed nobody with any influence has offered an objection, it just becomes easy to dismiss dissenters as Thatcher hating leftie loonies.
    If she was having a quiet private family burial then protesting about it would, of course, be wholly inappropriate. But she's not. The Tory filth are rubbing our faces in it by spunking ten million quid of state money on a massive ticker-tape parade of how wonderful she was for destroying communities and families and handing the proceeds to Gordon Gekko.

    It's funny isn't it, how Small State Capitalism is fantastic for other people, but not for themselves. If the subhuman Tory scum want a ticker tape parade they should get subscriptions to pay for it, and to compensate me for the inconvenience on Wednesday.

    I partially agree. I do agree that the tory party are taking public funds for an EXTREMELY divisive parade as you say. I don't think they have either the popular support nor the 'moral' justification. You can't take public money in public office to fund your friends funerals. End of.

    However, she was a prime minister, the first female prime minister, a wartime prime minister and an internationally renowned prime minister. So I think it would be odd if her funeral service was out of kilter with other prime ministers with that kind of achievement.

    Personally if I was the Despot-elect I would have opted for a low key funeral recognising that she achieved some things but also caused a division in our nation not seen since before the first world war when men died together regardless of class or wealth.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder how bad the protests about costs will be regarding the Queens funeral. Fully expect many more members of the armed forces on that one too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The difference with the Queen, of course, is that a) she is the Head of State and b) she is not a political figure. By the logic if the Tory scum we should also be giving a state burial to Tony Blair when he (hopefully shortly) shuffles. The idea of that equally makes my skin crawl.

    Just an aside, anyone who thinks the welfare cuts are about "cutting the deficit" is a moron. The deficit has got bigger under Gideon, he's spunking ever more money away on his private finance cronies. Just like Maggie T before him, the ideology is spending more money on the rich and less on the poor. It is state-sanctioned theft on a massive scale. The fact Labour wouldn't do anything differently is more proof that the poor and vulnerable no longer matter in Thatcherite Britain.

    As for "most people wanting welfare reform", of course they do when they're constantly told anyone on benefits is a fraudster. YouGov's recent surveys show that people overestimate welfare form by approximately 5500%.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Annaarrr!! wrote: »
    I don't get how being respectful FOR THE DEAD will do anything? Just cos I don't run around making disgusting remarks about someone who is dead doesn't mean I particularly liked what they did in their life. How you can call me an idiot for not being a prick is beyond me

    Perhaps those papers/right wing commentators asking for respect for Thatcher should look at the respect shown to Michael Foot by those same media organisations when he died. Or for Saddam... Or for any number of their "enemies".

    Thing is, in spite of her claims that she would bring harmony where there was discord, she was actually the most divisive PM in our history (at least as recorded)... Sure she's been out of power since 1990, but the effects of her term in office are still being felt. Her influence is still very much visible and tangible. Who brought about the deregulation of the financial sector which ultimately led to this credit crunch (for example), whose policies destroyed the economy of whole towns and villages, who created the situation where upto 40% of former council housing is now in the hands of private landlords (leading to the housing benefit issue being addressed today), who refused councils the right to build more social housing with the proceeds of those sales (leading to a massive under capacity we see today)... Just a few examples.

    Surely you cannot expect those negative affected by these examples (which spans generations) to show her a level of respect in death which she never showed them in life?

    Now personally I don't dance in her grave, I wouldn't attend any parties. I do, however, fully understand why many would want to.
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