Home Politics & Debate
Ongoing maintenance - the boards are undergoing some ongoing, intermittent maintenance. Pages might load slightly slower than usual and there may be very short periods where the boards are offline.

Margaret Thatcher has died

2456789

Comments

  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    People can be stopped from causing any (more) damage without dying. I can see people being happy about her not causing more damage, but that happened many years ago to the best of my knowledge and so there's no reason to be glad about her dying other than malice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Vile woman. I have no reason to grieve for her, and I have no respect for her. My comments regarding her death are in no way impacting other people's "grieving" so I don't see an issue at all.

    There's going to be one final party, of all the old groups who got together to protest, reclaim the streets etc. which I am going to with my dad. I have utterly no reason to mourn her death, and I do not feel that I should show "respect" for someone who ruined the lives of many including people in my family. As my dad put it, it's like the death of Stalin or a similar figure.

    To be fair to her, she didn't kill 20 million people despite all the other things she got up to.

    But the main difference between her and Stalin (or many others like Stalin) is that nothing's changed now she's dead, apart from there being one less sick and sad old lady. When Stalin and Franco etc. died, their countries changed irrevocably straight afterwards. But what she's done is done, and her death makes no difference to any of it, or any of us. It's only her legacy that's affected us these past years, not her herself as a person, and not even death will stop her legacy, so celebrating seems a bit daft. Our industries are still dead, our national services are still privatised and so on...when (or if) we change back things like that, then that is the time for celebrating. Dancing on the grave of someone's granny is just a bit sickening really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Vile woman. I have no reason to grieve for her, and I have no respect for her. My comments regarding her death are in no way impacting other people's "grieving" so I don't see an issue at all.

    There's going to be one final party, of all the old groups who got together to protest, reclaim the streets etc. which I am going to with my dad. I have utterly no reason to mourn her death, and I do not feel that I should show "respect" for someone who ruined the lives of many including people in my family. As my dad put it, it's like the death of Stalin or a similar figure.

    To be fair to her, she didn't kill 20 million people despite all the other things she got up to.

    But the main difference between her and Stalin (or many others like Stalin) is that nothing's changed now she's dead, apart from there being one less sick and sad old lady. When Stalin and Franco etc. died, their countries changed irrevocably straight afterwards. But what she's done is done, and her death makes no difference to any of it, or any of us. It's only her legacy that's affected us these past years, not her herself as a person, and not even death will stop her legacy, so celebrating seems a bit daft. Our industries are still dead, our national services are still privatised and so on...when (or if) we change back things like that, then that is the time for celebrating. Dancing on the grave of someone's granny is just a bit sickening really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Grace wrote: »
    Dancing on the grave of someone's granny is just a bit sickening really.

    I find the things she did sickening. She destroyed the lives of many thousands, and I in no way feel that now she is dead I need to change my views on her, or have respect for her.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also, didn't the Conservative share of the popular vote increase over her time in power? Yes she was very polarising, but many did like her.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Vile woman. I have no reason to grieve for her, and I have no respect for her. My comments regarding her death are in no way impacting other people's "grieving" so I don't see an issue at all.

    There's going to be one final party, of all the old groups who got together to protest, reclaim the streets etc. which I am going to with my dad. I have utterly no reason to mourn her death, and I do not feel that I should show "respect" for someone who ruined the lives of many including people in my family. As my dad put it, it's like the death of Stalin or a similar figure.

    First bit. Fair enough. In fact i find any "mourning" of a public figure a bit odd. I wouldn't mourn for someone i didn't know regardless of whether i respected them or not.

    But you and your dad clearly have no concept of what a true dictator actually is. In fact to compare Thatcher to Stalin is beyond ridiculous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I find the things she did sickening. She destroyed the lives of many thousands, and I in no way feel that now she is dead I need to change my views on her, or have respect for her.

    Well yes, so do I.

    But what difference does it make that she's dead?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Neddy wrote: »
    First bit. Fair enough.

    But you and your dad clearly have no concept of what a true dictator actually is. In fact to compare Thatcher to Stalin is beyond ridiculous.

    What he meant was with in our community her death will not be mourned at all, no one has respect for her around there, and everyone will be celebrating.

    And Grace, her being dead is to a lot of people a comfort that she will never impact their lives again, the damage she's done will always be there but to many this is something they have waited for a long time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maggie Thatcher was pretty good friends with several evil dictators
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I normally don't post in P&D (don't like arguments!) but I wanted to say that I think that a person passing away should rarely (if ever?) be celebrated. Sometimes it is for the good of millions if they die (i.e Saddam Hussain, Hitler...) but I still wouldn't celebrate it in the sense of "yay... party time they have died! Woop woop!". I would be pleased that they are not around to cause any more misery and suffering but celebrating still seems, well, disrespectful regardless of what someone has or hasn't done.

    In relation to Maggie, I think it is a sad day for her family, and no doubt some of the UK. She showed that with perseverance you can achieve a lot in life, even if it is controversial. She became the first, and so far only, woman PM.

    Yes, she did a lot of negative things too, but those things are in the past and have no relevance to her dying today. Saying that she can never impact others lives again is a fair point, but really, I don't think she could have done that recently /now if she was still here even if she had have wanted too- she was very frail. Surely when she was no longer involved in politics would have been the time to celebrate (if you have to) and not on the day/days after she died? I think that is where the line is between fair enough and sick.

    Anyway that is my two cents.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WHY shouldnt it be celebrated?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WHY shouldnt it be celebrated?

    Well, it does put in the same camp as super bell end Morrissey.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WHY shouldnt it be celebrated?

    Because, like anyone else, she has close friends and relatives who are still alive who might find it quite distressing that people are having street parties celebrating her death. Put yourself in her son/daughters shoes and imagine what that's like.....

    By all means hate her, by all means be pleased she is gone if you like. But actively celebrating someones death is just such a ****ish thing to do....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Neddy wrote: »
    Because, like anyone else, she has close friends and relatives who are still alive who might find it quite distressing that people are having street parties celebrating her death. Put yourself in her son/daughters shoes and imagine what that's like.....

    By all means hate her, by all means be pleased she is gone if you like. But actively celebrating someones death is just such a ****ish thing to do....

    ^ That. And what I said in my post.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do people forget that the trade unions held this country to ransom? Or that she swept into power on a promise to attack the trade unions? Blame ALL the people that voted her in, and the rest who decided to join her when the vote got even bigger as time went on. She's hated yes, she ruined some industries, yet I wonder what had happened if unions hasn't been asking for 36% above inflation pay rises. Some might call that a touch greedy.


    Sent from my whyayePad using Tapatalk
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't this attitude that we shouldn't speak ill of the dead exactly what caused the Jimmy Savile controversy? Not that I'm comparing Margaret Thatcher to Jimmy Savile. He only fucked kids. She fucked everyone.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not everyone, a lot of people yes, and they think they're everyone. But not everyone.


    Sent from my whyayePad using Tapatalk
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Do people forget that the trade unions held this country to ransom? Or that she swept into power on a promise to attack the trade unions? Blame ALL the people that voted her in, and the rest who decided to join her when the vote got even bigger as time went on. She's hated yes, she ruined some industries, yet I wonder what had happened if unions hasn't been asking for 36% above inflation pay rises. Some might call that a touch greedy.


    Sent from my whyayePad using Tapatalk

    The Conservative vote dropped between 1979 and 1983. Not hugely, but it dropped. The number of votes in all three of her general elections was just shy of 14 million. It was consistent, so yes, the votes between 1983 and 1987 got bigger but they only really returned to the 1979 figures.

    Also civil war in a divided Labour Party and the unions blowing it and blah blah blah. She still won.

    Also "whyayepad"? Come on now...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    WHY shouldnt it be celebrated?

    Why *should* it be celebrated?

    I say that as someone who political view was formed on the back of her policies. She ensured that I could never, with good conscience, vote Tory. I live in an ex-mining village, am married to the daughter of a striker and someone whose job was taken from him. I loathe her support for Pinochet, her hatred for Mandela. I despise the fact that her cabinet discussed the 'managed decline' of the north and Liverpool in particular. I hate the fact that she considered unemployment and a price worth paying in any circumstances, that she used the Police and MI5 to illegally wiretap unions as part of her undermining of them, that she used road blocks to prevent lawful protesting. I think that she is partly to blame for the start of the Falklands crisis which ultimately lead to war. I am angered that her polices divided the country in a way never before seen (with the impact that we see in this thread) ... I could go one for ages. There was a huge cost to her successes and these should never be ignored.

    However, I cannot celebrate her death. Her death will not change what she did, she's not being punished in anyway for all of the bad that she did and neither does it mean she is being honoured. It's just part of life. I wish people would focus their efforts following her death in a positive way - by highlighting those policy impacts because sure as hell much is being repeated right now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder what would happen if the mines reopened right now, I'm being serious. It could (with training) solve youth unemployment to at least some degree. Though I guess there would be complaints about the cold/dark/wet conditions!

    I'm not saying I can agree with it, but I can understand WHY some people are celebrating in the streets. However I still find it confusing that many of the young people I have seen celebrating on the TV, were not even born even after she left power. Yes young people can still stand for what they believe in, they believed that she was an evil nasty person, but celebrating with street parties and tshirts?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was about to say a lot of those pictured celebrating seem my age and younger, I was born a few months before she left 10 downing street, I doubt most of them have much understanding or appreciation of the scale of things that happened- they just want an excuse to party in the street and look like rebels.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote: »
    I was about to say a lot of those pictured celebrating seem my age and younger, I was born a few months before she left 10 downing street, I doubt most of them have much understanding or appreciation of the scale of things that happened- they just want an excuse to party in the street and look like rebels.

    I think that's true, you're going to be at least 22 to have been even born when she was in power and I doubt there's many a person under thirty who has any real memories of her being in power.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm 15, I was not born, but I know what she did and I have my very strong opinions on her. Saying people can't protest/celebrate because they weren't born is ridiculous, I wasn't born in world war two but I'm still expected to wear a poppy on remembrance day.
    I think a lot of older generations do not realise how much politics matter to people in my peer group... the country, the world in fact, is being ruined in many ways right before our eyes. I can't speak for everyone, but I know a lot about Thatcher and the Torys, as do a fair few of my friends. It's not all just people wanting to "look like rebels" and party. It's people who want to see change, who want to stand up for what is right and what they believe in, and why shouldn't they?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also like to point out these streets parties are being organized by older people, my dads generation and his dads. "The youth" are going to be shown on TV to give it all a bad name, just like they show the tiny bit of violence in an otherwise peaceful demonstration.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sure that's true, but I'm also sure there's people down there for the hell of it rather than actually really caring about it. I just don't see how celebrating her death is going to help anything. Getting people talking is always a good thing, but I think popping a cork over her death bed is a bit tasteless and not really the way to go about it imo. But each to their own.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,165 Skive's The Limit
    Isn't this attitude that we shouldn't speak ill of the dead exactly what caused the Jimmy Savile controversy? Not that I'm comparing Margaret Thatcher to Jimmy Savile. He only fucked kids. She fucked everyone.

    Both now famous for fucking minors in the 80's of course.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The fact Thatcher's party won general elections is largely irrelevant, given the fact that we have an archaic and corrupt voting system in the UK. The Conservatives didn't win in the north, they didn't win in Scotland, they didn't win in Wales. The Northern Irish voted in Bobby Sands as an MP thirty years ago today. She represented a small wealthy cabal of stockbrokers and managed to hoodwink the farmers, they voted her in and the pathetic voting system allowed it.

    She never ever ever won a majority vote, did she?

    Her death is not a celebration though. She died peacefully, at 87, in a hotel room at the Ritz costing four grand a night, money which she stole from the poor and vulnerable. I can't take much joy from that at all, although I may be watching the funeral just to see Mark Thatcher cry.

    Her death is not a celebration because Thatcherism won. Blair was a Thatcherite, Brown was, Eds Balls and Milliband are. The Tories all are. The poor and vulnerable will never get a say in how this country operates now because she changed the country for the worse. Her legacy lives on and will do for a very long time yet. That's no cause of celebration at all.

    However I'm glad that Bankrupt Britain (C)Gideon "cunt" Osborne and Iain Duncan-Cunt can find £10m to give her a state burial and another £2.5m to recall MPs to have a circle jerk about her legacy. I'm so glad we're all in this together, it makes me feel so happy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's what making me cross, the cost of the funeral. I don't understand why she's getting a ceremonial funeral, especially now, especially when the country is fucked.

    Frankly, if they can find £10 million to pay for that, they can find it to do something worthwhile.


    ETA: William Hague defends insane cost of funeral
Sign In or Register to comment.