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Aborting disabled babies

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
This was on the news this morning, I just wanted to see what everyone else thinks.

There's a news report on it here

Basically, abortion is legal up until 24 weeks pregnant, but if you find out your child is disabled you can abort it up until full term.

There's going to be an inquiry into whether this law should change, and whether it goes against the equality act.

What do you think about it?

Personally, I do agree that women should have the right to choose, but I don't think a late abortion should be allowed on the grounds a child "may be disabled." That, in my eyes, is discrimination. I do understand it'd be incredibly hard for the mother to come to terms with, but I feel that there are other options than an abortion after 24 weeks such as putting the child into care, or keeping the baby and getting the available support from charities and the government.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't see how it could possibly go against the equalities act, since you're not legally alive until you're born. Hence why it's fine to intentionally kill a foetus beyond the usual term limit if the woman's life is in danger. You certainly couldn't do that to a live baby (I don't know a situation where that could possibly be a dilemma, but in theory). So the real question is whether disability is a valid reason to extend the usual limit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Disability is not. Risk to life is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Termination up to full term isn't allowed just because of a "disability", it is only allowed where birth will endanger the mother's life or the baby will be born with severely limited or no prospect of a quality of life. Essentially babies that are terminated that late are so severely deformed that they would probably die within a few hours or days of being born anyway, or if they don't will essentially require 24-hour care and will never be able to do anything. until they do eventually die.

    As for "the government providing support", don't make me fucking laugh. The Toryscum filth have cut all social care budgets, they've cut carer's benefits, they've cut disability benefits. The only "support" you'll get from the Tory cunts is a hectoring and snarling that you should just pull your socks up and get a job as well as looking after a severely disabled baby. And, without being unkind, just who the hell is going to adopt a baby with a severe disability when social services can't even find homes for all the fully-abled babies they have?

    You've bought the anti-abortion bullshit hook, line and sinker here. As so many people do. It isn't anything to do with "protecting disabled people", it's about the fact that the Christian fundies and their Tory filth comrades know the best way to keep people subjugated is to remove their right to choose when and how they procreate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I love you AR
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Termination up to full term isn't allowed just because of a "disability", it is only allowed where birth will endanger the mother's life or the baby will be born with severely limited or no prospect of a quality of life. Essentially babies that are terminated that late are so severely deformed that they would probably die within a few hours or days of being born anyway, or if they don't will essentially require 24-hour care and will never be able to do anything. until they do eventually die.

    This. The babies we're talking about are not just a bit disabled, they are extreme cases. This is kind of close to my heart because someone very close to me has just been through this. We were pregnant at almost exactly the same time.

    She was offered a late term abortion after finding out her baby had big problems, and would almost certainly not survive for very long. This was only after multiple tests confirmed the severity of her condition, and after a whole lot of counselling. It was not a decision which was taken lightly by any of the medical staff. In the end, she chose not to terminate, carried to full term, and her daughter died at 3 days old. It was a totally heartbreaking situation for everyone involved.

    There is this idea perpetuated by the pro-lifers that people just abort babies willy nilly, which is clearly bollocks, and IMO just makes a tough decision even tougher for women in this awful situation who have to decide whether to abort an often desperately wanted baby.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Termination up to full term isn't allowed just because of a "disability", it is only allowed where birth will endanger the mother's life or the baby will be born with severely limited or no prospect of a quality of life. Essentially babies that are terminated that late are so severely deformed that they would probably die within a few hours or days of being born anyway, or if they don't will essentially require 24-hour care and will never be able to do anything. until they do eventually die.

    As for "the government providing support", don't make me fucking laugh. The Toryscum filth have cut all social care budgets, they've cut carer's benefits, they've cut disability benefits. The only "support" you'll get from the Tory cunts is a hectoring and snarling that you should just pull your socks up and get a job as well as looking after a severely disabled baby. And, without being unkind, just who the hell is going to adopt a baby with a severe disability when social services can't even find homes for all the fully-abled babies they have?

    You've bought the anti-abortion bullshit hook, line and sinker here. As so many people do. It isn't anything to do with "protecting disabled people", it's about the fact that the Christian fundies and their Tory filth comrades know the best way to keep people subjugated is to remove their right to choose when and how they procreate.


    this
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Everything arctic has said.

    I know people who have had to have +24 week abortions because the foetus was growing in the wrong place and could have killed her. I know people who have to abort because the foetus only had 2 heart ventricles instead of 4 and the limbs weren't developing in a way that would have made them viable. It's unlikely the brain would have been getting sufficient oxygen to develop normally. Now that's not discrimination, that's thinking about all the factors that will affect that child's life and if care will be sufficient to give that child a viable chance to have a good quality of life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kaff wrote: »
    This. The babies we're talking about are not just a bit disabled, they are extreme cases. This is kind of close to my heart because someone very close to me has just been through this. We were pregnant at almost exactly the same time.

    She was offered a late term abortion after finding out her baby had big problems, and would almost certainly not survive for very long. This was only after multiple tests confirmed the severity of her condition, and after a whole lot of counselling. It was not a decision which was taken lightly by any of the medical staff. In the end, she chose not to terminate, carried to full term, and her daughter died at 3 days old. It was a totally heartbreaking situation for everyone involved.

    There is this idea perpetuated by the pro-lifers that people just abort babies willy nilly, which is clearly bollocks, and IMO just makes a tough decision even tougher for women in this awful situation who have to decide whether to abort an often desperately wanted baby.

    This, and everything AR said.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it true that they struggle to find adoptive parents for babies? I always thought it was easy enough with newborns, it's all the kids plopped into the care system that don't get a second lookin because people want BNIB.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Is it true that they struggle to find adoptive parents for babies? I always thought it was easy enough with newborns, it's all the kids plopped into the care system that don't get a second lookin because people want BNIB.

    I think it's that and the fact that the adoption process is so long and expensive that it puts people off. It does need to be made easier imo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For babies they can usually manage it, but over the age of about two and they're struggling. So if a fully abled toddler can't get a home because too few people want the challenge, it'll be even harder for children with severe disabilities.

    Is that really any sort of life?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pretty much everything that arctic and Suzy and Kaff have said.
    The system needs to make sure that the limit for this stays in the right place, but other than that I think its got this about right.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry AR I didn't mean to like, annoy you... from what they said on the news it was a baby with any disability can be aborted up to full term. At no point did they say "severe disability". Also, I am not anti-abortion...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If we look at the numbers as well (as quoted in the article).....

    146 abortions (after 24 weeks) out of a total of:
    almost 190,000

    Around 0.08% of all abortions?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's what the anti-women Christian fundy nutters do though. They take 0.08% of abortions and imply the same thing happens to the other 99.92% of abortions.

    They're scum. I'd saythe pro-life fruitcases actually make me want to extend the abortion time limit by quite a few decades.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry to drag this thread up - but I saw this on postsecret today.

    loss.jpg

    And would like to point out the current debate on the boards http://www.postsecretcommunity.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=367984&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

    I find it so sad that this woman feels she has to lie about it to avoid some of those kind of judgements on those boards.
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