Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

Are you an '-ist' by approval?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I've recently gotten in to Jay-Z and a few other similar rap/RnB artists.

I mentioned this to a relative and she went off on one about how I was 'validating misogynist attitudes' by enjoying some of that music.

She wasn't suggesting that a fan of rap is a misogynist but by enjoying Jay-Z's music I am somehow lending support to calling women 'bitches' etc.

My view is I use a lot of that sort of music as motivation when I go out on a run. Other than a certain female British former PM I've never called anyone a bitch. But I love to have '99 Problems' on when I'm out.

So do you agree/disagree that by being a fan of those sort of artists/songs you are somehow making the problem of sexism/racism/domestic violence etc worse?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting topic.

    I think she's stepping into the world of high speculation by claiming that you're somehow making misogyny worse by listening to Jay-Z. I can kind of see the argument for validating misogynist attitudes by listening to the music, though it seems to be a somewhat spurious link: you put on the music, enjoy the beat while running and pay little mind to what he's saying, seems the likely listening scenario in your case. And I don't suspect listening to the music has any effect on you attitudes towards women.

    I wonder whether your relative would think it possible to enjoy Wagner without furthering racism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've recently gotten in to Jay-Z and a few other similar rap/RnB artists.

    I mentioned this to a relative and she went off on one about how I was 'validating misogynist attitudes' by enjoying some of that music.

    She wasn't suggesting that a fan of rap is a misogynist but by enjoying Jay-Z's music I am somehow lending support to calling women 'bitches' etc.

    My view is I use a lot of that sort of music as motivation when I go out on a run. Other than a certain female British former PM I've never called anyone a bitch. But I love to have '99 Problems' on when I'm out.

    So do you agree/disagree that by being a fan of those sort of artists/songs you are somehow making the problem of sexism/racism/domestic violence etc worse?

    Well, in the sense that you are paying for it and therefore funding the artist that is spouting those kinds of attitudes, yes, I agree with her.

    Why do you enjoy the music, though? What is it about it that you like? Why use that music rather than other kinds for motivation, and how does it motivate you? I can't really say whether or not it makes you a misogynist without knowing that stuff, really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never met a woman who has called me or implied that I am misogynistic or sexist so I'm pretty comfortable with how I see myself that way.

    The thing is (and I'll use the 99 Problems song as my example) I listen to that tune as it gets me in the mood for running, it gets me worked up. It does not make me want to slap a woman, or have an interest in perpetuating any sort of 'glass ceiling' for women etc I like the song. It's powerful, motivating and helps me on my run.

    I listen to Eminem for the same sort of reasons but nobody who actually knows me has ever suggested I'm any sort of '-ist' as a result.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's powerful, motivating and helps me on my run.

    Yeah, but, why? WHY is it powerful? What makes it motivating?

    I'm not saying you're actively trying to perpetuate the idea that women are inferior, but I'm just curious about why that music (and that song in particular) motivates you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, but, why? WHY is it powerful? What makes it motivating?

    I'm not saying you're actively trying to perpetuate the idea that women are inferior, but I'm just curious about why that music (and that song in particular) motivates you?

    It's powerful because it has a powerful bass! It's not just that type of music though, I'll listen to rock, metal, dance, indie, in fact as long as it has energy and passion I'll find it helps.

    I'm using that song as an example as it was the last thing I was listening to after this morning's run and it's the one I showed her but I like that song in itself as well because I see it as 'empowering*' and 'overcoming adversity'. People are obviously free to interpret songs in any way they like and that's how I see it. 'Adversity' music is what helps me the most when I'm running.


    *not empowering due to calling women 'bitches'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's powerful because it has a powerful bass! It's not just that type of music though, I'll listen to rock, metal, dance, indie, in fact as long as it has energy and passion I'll find it helps.

    I'm using that song as an example as it was the last thing I was listening to after this morning's run and it's the one I showed her but I like that song in itself as well because I see it as 'empowering*' and 'overcoming adversity'. People are obviously free to interpret songs in any way they like and that's how I see it. 'Adversity' music is what helps me the most when I'm running.


    *not empowering due to calling women 'bitches'

    Well then. As you were. I don't know the song well enough to really argue that you're wrong, so I'll just assume you're not. I can see why she said what she did but it's a little on the overdramatic side.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never met a woman who has called me or implied that I am misogynistic or sexist so I'm pretty comfortable with how I see myself that way.

    The thing is (and I'll use the 99 Problems song as my example) I listen to that tune as it gets me in the mood for running, it gets me worked up. It does not make me want to slap a woman, or have an interest in perpetuating any sort of 'glass ceiling' for women etc I like the song. It's powerful, motivating and helps me on my run.

    I listen to Eminem for the same sort of reasons but nobody who actually knows me has ever suggested I'm any sort of '-ist' as a result.

    I like 99 Problems too. I don't really take the lyrics at face value and don't even believe it's trying to make some sort of misogynist statement. The song makes more of a statement on the way police in America regularly stop and search young black men then it does on women. Same with some of Eminem's songs. A person can choose to take it literally but I see it that Eminem has enough artistic license and credability to write lyrics that express his anger.

    Maybe I'm a hypocrite? Because I still think anyone that buys anything by Chris Brown is an idiot..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasnt really asking the question of whether or not I'm a misogynist but whether people think being a fan of certain music or songs makes them racist, sexist etc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasnt really asking the question of whether or not I'm a misogynist but whether people think being a fan of certain music or songs makes them racist, sexist etc

    Depends why they're a fan of it and how they interpret it, imo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And I was using your example of '99 Problems' by saying that I didn't think it was misogynistic in the first place.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends why they're a fan of it and how they interpret it, imo.

    I can go along with that. I just have a problem with the apparent default attitude of 'sexist!' based purely on the band, singer, song, genre etc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can go along with that. I just have a problem with the apparent default attitude of 'sexist!' based purely on the band, singer, song, genre etc

    No, I agree. I don't think listening to a song/band/artist will turn someone into a racist/sexist/[insert -ist here], but I do think that it can perpetuate and (in some cases) increase misogynistic/racist/etc. attitudes in those who are already inclined towards them. I also think they're quite dangerous as popular music will always be influential on impressionistic young people and whatnot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Being told I was 'part of the problem' was fun...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Reminds me of this Chris Rock bit.

    I'd always be dubious before accepting that a particular musician was racist/homophobic/misogynistic though. Eminem has a song that simulates him killing his ex-wife, for example. But is that really misogynistic, or is it simply portraying a fantasy that someone might reasonably have after they feel betrayed at the end of a relationship? It's not unusual for people to have fantasies that might appear contrary to how they really see an issue, and it's not unusual for people making art to portray these more urges. Hell, the idea of vigilante justice is huge in Hollywood films, for example, and I bet we all get a great buzz when we see Russell Crowe's character beating up a wife beater in LA Confidential, but that doesn't mean we're condoning police brutality. It's generally accepted in film (and especially in porn) that they're selling a fantasy. But with musicians, in particular, it's usually assumed that everything they say is something they truly believe. I think a lot of rappers are a great deal more self-aware than they're given credit for.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think maybe, marginally, you are making the problem worse. But lets put this in perspective. Most things you do in a day, make someone's problem worse, in a smaller or bigger way. Everything has to have balance.

    Listening to a slightly offensive song, in the grand scheme, isn't having a big impact. If you are listening to a wide range of offensive music, exclusively, and epousing these views to your friends and family, then yea you are having a big impact. That's for you to judge yourself though. Are you being fair to women?

    It is very easy, however, from a polemic perspective, for an outsider to pick one tiny aspect that may be 'wrong' and then blow it out of proportion and hold it as evidence that you are in fact, the devil himself and should slay yourself. The best advice is to tell these people to get a grip and not indulge their need to fight battles and right perceived wrongs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »

    Listening to a slightly offensive song, in the grand scheme, isn't having a big impact. If you are listening to a wide range of offensive music, exclusively, and epousing these views to your friends and family, then yea you are having a big impact. That's for you to judge yourself though. Are you being fair to women?

    I don't think the rate at which I piss people off in my everyday life is any less or greater than the average person in the street however I'm pretty sure my choice of music plays no part in it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think the rate at which I piss people off in my everyday life is any less or greater than the average person in the street however I'm pretty sure my choice of music plays no part in it.

    I wasn't judging you Glenn - I was pointing out that listening to a song has such a tiny impact it should really hold no weight. My point was really that the only person who can honestly weigh up the evidence is yourself. Don't pay attention to busy bodies who want to pick a fight because they're frustrated at the world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I wasn't judging you Glenn

    Wasn't taken as if you were :D

    I was just validating my position :)
Sign In or Register to comment.