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Pick-up Artistry

**helen****helen** Mod malarkistPosts: 9,235 Listening Ear
Is there any place for it?

A lady was mentioned in live chat last night and my gut instinct was to be :yeees:

The person was: http://www.kezia-noble.com/

Now, TheSite has a range of factsheets with advice on how to pull and so you could say to some extent, everyone has the ability to be a bit manipulative when they're looking to snag some :love: but how far should it go and are there 'good guys' and 'bad guys' in the pick-up artistry business?

I'm trying to see it from a more neutral perspective - is that even possible?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Giving someone guidance on how to present themselves is brilliant and wonderful, public interaction is a skill which, for most of us, is a learned skill rather than a natural talent.

    Where pick up artistry differs is that it tries to claim that interaction doesn't count, pulling is the aim not the game. I just think that attitude is so depressing, quantity over quality is not something to aspire to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I had a friend who was into PUA. For him, and for the attitude he had, it was quite a good way of giving him the confidence to talk to girls. Also, the random going up to girls in the street is quite different, giving you opportunities to meet people who you wouldn't ordinarily meet.

    There are, obviously, some sleazy sides to it. These 'masters' who have so many girls fawning over them in the club on an evening and play them all off. Everything is open to abuse though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's something I find interesting, and I'd like to see it studied properly. My initial impression is that like most other "self-help" schemes, it's based largely on bullshit dressed up with a bit of flowery language from psychology to offer it some legitimacy. It preys on men's insecurities to make a large amount of money from courses that aren't necessarily successful at achieving their goals. And of course the men running it are successful with women. They're generally charismatic, charming and rich. But I'm slightly dubious that they can make other men the same.

    So yeah, the first point would be to see whether these men are actually any more successful than they were before the course. The second would be to see if they are any more successful than men who were simply asked to up the number of times they approached women (because obviously the more times you approach women, they more times you're likely to get a phone number or anything that might follow that). And the third would be to test whether the increased success, if it does in fact exist, is anything to do with the techniques they teach, or if it's entirely down to the increase in confidence that comes with believing they'll work as well as the support network the course offers. And of course the final test would be to see whether their success continues beyond the length of the course itself.

    It seems that there has been so much outrage at the pick-up artist community and their "manipulative" behaviour that few people have stopped to ask the most basic question: does it actually work?
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear

    It seems that there has been so much outrage at the pick-up artist community and their "manipulative" behaviour that few people have stopped to ask the most basic question: does it actually work?

    Yep, I think that's the crux of why I started this thread. Like, if there are PUA's that aren't sexist/manipulative (I don't know the answer to this question - but sounds like roo's friend's experience might have been OK?) then what are you left with - something that works or something that's totally just a way to make easy £££
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is only me that finds the whole thing rather fucking creepy?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **helen** wrote: »
    Yep, I think that's the crux of why I started this thread. Like, if there are PUA's that aren't sexist/manipulative (I don't know the answer to this question - but sounds like roo's friend's experience might have been OK?) then what are you left with - something that works or something that's totally just a way to make easy £££

    I was searching around the internet, and I found this story pretty funny. So even if there are genuine people doing it, there are certainly scam artists out there who know they're conning people. And someone being genuine about it doesn't mean that what they teach has any merit. After all, I'm sure there are plenty of psychics who genuinely think they can predict the future too. But listen to the language they use and you'll realise there's really very little substance to what they're saying. It's really just obvious stuff packaged in flowery, pseudo-scientific language.

    I don't know how sexist they are in reality. What exactly would you consider sexist about it as a concept?

    Incidentally, it's worth mentioning that the whole PUA thing has its roots in neurolinguistic programming, which has been studied and is certified bollocks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have read The Game by Neil Strauss, out of morbid curiosity rather than any desire to improve my chances with random women.

    There seem to be two types of guys into the scene:

    1: Nerds who are attracted to the game, the strategies and the general problem solving aspect. They're more into puzzle solving than penis hiding.

    2: Nerds who feel that they didn't get their shot with girls in high school and have grown up with an inherent bitterness towards women, a bitterness that manifests itself in a desire to get revenge of women by kissing/shagging as many as possible.

    So insecure blokes praying on insecure women.

    It's a creepy scene filled with creepy weirdos.
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