ESA stopped but still signed off

Former Member

I'm in a real catch 22 situation right now and I can't seem to get any advice on it.

I was on ESA, I had the medical and the "healthcare worker" didn't listen to most of what I had to say - she scored me as top in the mental health section but then in nothing else...doesn't quite make sense considering I told her about the IBS and all the other things which the mental health affects. Anyway, I'm appealing but what do I do in the meantime?

Do I claim JSA - even though I've been signed off til Feb and the dr wants to sign me off again because he really thinks I shouldn't be at college 2 days a week let alone working full-time!

I'm having a real issue with my new support worker as well, she doesn't seem to be listening to what I'm saying and she really doesn't seem interested in working with me to the point of being continually hostile towards me (really great thing to do with someone who has anxiety issues!). She's meant to be helping me, but I actually don't have very much confidence in her to be able to act in accordance with my wishes - i.e. I'm not sure how helpful she's going to be with the appeal. I've already spoken to her manager about it and she's trying to assign me to new worker, but I don't know how long that will take...

Any ideas as what to do next??

Former Member

If you've had your medical, the reason why they would have stopped your claim is because they found you fit for work. You would need to ask to be paid at the assessment rate, send in sick / fit notes and send in an appeal.

It is possible to claim JSA and not work full time. On my agreement, it said I can't work full time due to disability. Then some numpty removed that, said I didn't have a disability (bearing in mind I usually walk with a mobility cane...) and that I can work full time.

Former Member

They've not paid me since the first date they gave me for a medical (also when my last sick note ran out) but I had to rearrange because I had no one to go with me, not that my new worker was any help because she only met me 10 mins before hand.

Former Member

If you scored highly in the mental health section isn't this enough to get ESA? I am going through the assessment process but only have mental health problems nothing physical. I am quite nervous although my GP says I shouldn't worry as I'm not fit for work.

Former Member

you have to get 15 points across the board, she just didn't listen to me when i talked about self care and keeping my affairs in order...

Former Member

oh dear. Well I've heard some people get it on appeal so maybe this will help. I hope you get it sorted.

Former Member

Thanks RG!

Former Member

It could be argued that because you're at college, you're well enough to work...

Former Member

I did say - I only do 12 hrs a week and i only do it so i'm not at home 24/7 I need to get out sometimes. Plus I can't keep up with the workload

Former Member

You could put on your JSA agreement that you are limited to 12 hours a week, they are pretty flexible about that. But the mentality they have is that if you can physically work, even if sporadically, then you should be trying to look for that work - the focus is on what you can do and not what you [/i]can't[/i] do. At least that was the impression they gave me - going through the roles each week, unless I had a reason why I couldn't do that, it was on the can-do list. They said to me I have total control and ability to refuse roles if they're not suitable for my circumstances though, and I expect they would be even more lenient with you considering the disability. I think after a long period unemployed though they start sending you on back-to-work schemes, to get the long-term unemployed doing something - but you could always sign yourself off if that wasn't something you wanted to do.

In all likelihood though you could just sign-on to get your JSA and other benefits like housing benefit, and then just apply to the minimum required roles a week, and enjoy the lack of interviews. Even people who are pretty desperate and flexible to find work are struggling, so if you are more constricted and picky about the kind of work you can take, it's not going to happen. Just make sure on your agreement the mental disabilities thing is mentioned.

In the meantime, whilst claiming JSA, you could be pursuing an appeal for ESA. At least that way you won't run out of money to eat.

Former Member

The doctor or nurse fills in a report and the decision maker uses that report to give you points. Points means prizes with ESA. As I said before, the fact that you are studying will count against you in the medical, and it has done.

If you think the decision is wrong you can either appeal it or accept it. If you want to appeal you have one month from the date of the decision to lodge your appeal and you will be paid a reduced rate ESA whilst you are appealing. I would strongly recommend that you get a specialist benefits adviser to assist you filling in the form. The appeal will then be heard by a Tribunal and they will decide if you should get ESA. Waiting lists for tribunal hearings in the north east are around 14 months.

Other than that, you can accept the decision and claim JSA, providing you are capable of and looking for full time work. You may be expected to give up your course for full time work.

Former Member

Arctic Roll wrote: »

I would strongly recommend that you get a specialist benefits adviser to assist you filling in the form.

Unfortunatly too late, my bitch of a support worker wrote one up and sent it off ASAP...I'm not sure what to do about all of this because I know theres no way I can do full time work, and the only reason I'm doing this course is because its something that keeps me going...

I spent most of my afternoon in bed crying because I can't cope with all of this, I've had no support with any of it and no guidance in doing the appeal. If I'm forced to stop the course I feel like my life will implode...

Former Member

It's not too late. What will happen now is that the DWP will look again at their decision and decide that they were right. It will then be referred to the Tribunals Service and you'll receive a letter from them asking if you want a paper hearing or an oral hearing. You want an oral hearing. A tribunal date will then subsequently be set.

Most ESA decisions are overturned on appeal but you have to go through the appeal. It's best to have a specialist adviser helping you, rather than a support worker, because they know more about the rules and how to tick the right boxes. It's mostly about evidence. As I say, the Tribunals Service are experiencing massive backlogs because the DWP are making more wrong decisions and the TS budget's been cut; up here in the north east a typical backlog is around 12 months. I had a client with an autistic child who had to wait fifteen months for the appeal to be heard. She won, of course (I'm mint me), and had a nice big fat overpayment cheque, but it's still not a quick process.

Former Member

So what do I do about money in the meantime?

Former Member

Reduced rate ESA or claim JSA.

Former Member

And will that happen automatically or do I need to do something in order to restart the ESA money?

Former Member

Miss_Riot wrote: »

And will that happen automatically or do I need to do something in order to restart the ESA money?

You need to request it and carry on sending in sick notes.

Former Member

ESA is very hard to get for MH reasons, and they will be thinking that if you can go to college, then youre able to work.

You have to be pretty much a cowering mess in a corner I think or unable to function

Former Member

SuzyCreamcheese wrote: »

ESA is very hard to get for MH reasons, and they will be thinking that if you can go to college, then youre able to work.

You have to be pretty much a cowering mess in a corner I think or unable to function

Pretty much, yeah. I know someone who can't get it and he can't get JSA either.

Former Member

SuzyCreamcheese wrote: »

ESA is very hard to get for MH reasons, and they will be thinking that if you can go to college, then youre able to work.

You have to be pretty much a cowering mess in a corner I think or unable to function

Yep, pretty much it. There are a number of 'descriptors' you must meet to get ESA, you can find these online. But basically to get ESA your mental health problems have to be so severe that you cannot function as a human being- you cannot eat, sleep, dress or even leave the house- or that you have behavioural problems.

I'd say you are probably wasting your time with an appeal if you are capable of studying at college. Remember ESA is paid for people unable to do any job, it's a very different test to the sicknote from your doctor. Moderate anxiety doesn't stop you going to college or going on dates and, therefore, it doesn't stop you going to work. However it's not for me to say whether you should appeal or not, that's a decision for you to make.

Former Member

I read your reply and spent the past few hours crying...i just don't know what to do - I can't keep myself together to keep on top of my coursework and yeah like you said before I probably shouldn't be dating in this state, but I wanted something more. I don't know what to do - I'm having to stay with friends still because the house we decided to rent hasn't got hot water and on average we've had to spend £15 a day just trying to get half a bath of tepid water and keep one room warm with an electric heater (we were promised storage or GCH would be installed before we moved in). We can't just look for a new place cos now I have no means of paying for it and mum is on housing benefit and has no guarantor .

I'm spending half the day crying, I've got no money coming in, I'm struggling to see a point to carrying on. I want to be a working tax paying member of society, but how can I do that like this? I'm prepared to make myself go out and get a part time job (if anyone would take me) but I don't think I'm well enough to keep it together right now - and getting fired is just going to put in a horrible place. I'm getting counselling through college and I'm going to see if I can up it to twice weekly to see if that will help and see if I can go back to seeing the CPN. I'm relying on college so heavily - its the only thing right now that's keeping me going, and I don't know what I'd do if I lost it. I'm doing my best to keep going, I know that's there's two sides of me - the brave face and then the side of me that bursts out as soon as I feel like I'm in a safe place.

What's your honest advice right now?

Former Member

what about job seekers allowance?

Former Member

I've been told I'd have to quit college if I do get JSA and I didn't know if still getting sick notes made a difference. I don't know if that's correct or not? If college wasn't the only thing keeping me going then I'd do it but I couldn't cope without it right now

Former Member

If you do 12 hours at college you don't have to quit to sign on. In fact, you can sign on anyway, but you just don't get your JSA if you are doing >16 hours. I don't know why.

Reason I know is because I asked about doing a course, and they said if it was over 16 hours I wouldn't be able to get JSA (you can still get your NI contributions though or something) but otherwise was ok.

For the a significant number of people, getting into work is actually useful for dealing with a lot of MH problems. So you could even see this as a new opportunity, rather than a setback.

Former Member

It depends on your hours with JSA. If you are able to change your hours of study, or if your hours of study don't stop you finding full time paid work, then you will not have to leave college. It depends how you are registered on your course; it isn't just time in college that counts, but also obligatory independent study. If you're registered as a full time student you generally cannot claim JSA. If you're registered as a part time student you can claim JSA, but be prepared to show that a) you will change or abandon course if you find work and b) that the course of study will legitimately improve your employment prospects.

The descriptors for ESA are here: http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/wca. If you can study then you are probably too well to meet the descriptors.

Former Member

There's nothing to stop you appealing; but as Arctic Roll says, that can takes months for it to be heard.

If you do 12 hours at college you don't have to quit to sign on.

But if a job does come up, you must be willing to give up / change your college hours.

Former Member

Which I'm not willing to do because it the only thing holding it me all together. I've been allocated a new support worker so I'm going to see if she'll come to a different CAB near me and see what they say. I am a registered student and the college counts it as a full time course. I might go talk to my GP more and see what his feelings are on the subject - if reduced hours or something might work.

I need to think about something else for the weekend this is sending me in spiralling hysterics.

Former Member

Miss_Riot wrote: »

Which I'm not willing to do because it the only thing holding it me all together.

.

well then you wont get it.

theyre not going to make different rules for you

Former Member

you have to at least say youd give it up

Former Member

Miss_Riot wrote: »

Which I'm not willing to do because it the only thing holding it me all together.

You won't get JSA then. Which would mean having to appeal ESA if you meet the criteria for it.

Whilst you can limit the hours you work due to disability, you can't say you won't give up your course.

Former Member

If you won't do the required for the JSA then you will have to appeal. However I don't think you will meet the criteria for ESA. You can study, you can use twitter, and the simple truth is your illness probably doesn't meet the criteria for benefits. ESA is for someone who cannot do ANY job; if you are capable of some work then you're not usually eligible