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EU or IOU?

Hello!
Fairly new in these parts, but I thought I should probably make at least one post - I'm the Engagement and Support Officer here at YouthNet just so ya'll know.
Anyhow - yesterday David Cameron veto'd a series of changes to the Lisbon treaty because he believes they'd be damaging to the UK's financial sector which plays a big part in our economy. Most notable of the changes would have been the introduction of a financial transaction tax on transactions within the EU.
You can find out more here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16116276

Anyway, what do we think? Has the PM alienated us from the rest of Europe (who are now drawing up an agreement that will be the same but simply exclude the UK altogether, creating what pundits are calling a "two tier europe"), or has Dave made the right decision for the UK?

Ready, set, go!

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well the saying goes that if you are not the one with the power to order, then you are on the menu!

    I think he has gone a long way to placate those people in the UK who have a genuine and valid view that Europe is not what it was. I think its right to have a referendum, regardless of the outcome; as I think the beast that the EU is evolving into is changing far beyond what people first thought it would be.

    I'm rather happy with the links the UK has with the EU, and it would be a bit silly to completely piss the rest of the EU and try to pull out of the whole thing, which I fear many people would vote for because they are euro sceptic without realising the benefits that the EU brings to this country. Negating my last point, David Cameron has done good in my eyes because he perhaps wants us to be a part of the EU, but doesnt want to give away all our national powers etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From an external point of view I think your pm makes a right choice about wanting to represent your country's interest in a long term view. However, now is not the time to bargain for individual agreements. The EU as a whole is in deep financial trouble, and I think it's paramount that all members commit to solving immediate problems first. The last thing Europe needs now are countries consolidating and strengthening disparity. Not doing so may have severe ramifications far outside the EU.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    T-Kay wrote: »
    From an external point of view I think your pm makes a right choice about wanting to represent your country's interest in a long term view. However, now is not the time to bargain for individual agreements. The EU as a whole is in deep financial trouble, and I think it's paramount that all members commit to solving immediate problems first. The last thing Europe needs now are countries consolidating and strengthening disparity. Not doing so may have severe ramifications far outside the EU.

    Except Britain is in a rather stronger position compared to some of the other countries.

    Plus we are not in the Euro anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ian Hislop's joke on the subject was quite funny. We'll be sidelined in Europe......as the centre collapses.

    On a personal level, I never want to lose my right to work in Europe without visas/work permits/etc, so I don't want to see us leave the EU.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Except Britain is in a rather stronger position compared to some of the other countries.

    Plus we are not in the Euro anyway.

    True, Britain has a stronger position than many of the smaller countries, thus it's even more important to participate in "pulling in the same direction".

    The Euro is only part of the problem and not the initial cause of this crisis. It is worse for countries having the same currency but it will affect entire Europe regardless of currency because the crisis started with too much debt for some of the member countries, not something related to the currency itself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ian Hislop's joke on the subject was quite funny. We'll be sidelined in Europe......as the centre collapses.

    On a personal level, I never want to lose my right to work in Europe without visas/work permits/etc, so I don't want to see us leave the EU.

    Even if the Euro collapses I still don't think there will be a total collapse of EU, but there is a significant risk of collapse of the Euro albeit still not the most probable outcome according to most analytics companies. The union itself is based on a lot more than just the currency, for instance, common market mechanisms and so on are very important.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ian Hislop's joke on the subject was quite funny. We'll be sidelined in Europe......as the centre collapses.

    On a personal level, I never want to lose my right to work in Europe without visas/work permits/etc, so I don't want to see us leave the EU.

    A country does not have to be part of the EU to be part of the single market.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote: »
    A country does not have to be part of the EU to be part of the single market.

    It doesnt, but since it took the best efforts of the EU to lay down the streamlined guidelines and suggestions to make it work properly, I'd say that even if you were not part of the EU, you might as well be if you follow the rules and regs in order to fit in with the single market.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    It doesnt, but since it took the best efforts of the EU to lay down the streamlined guidelines and suggestions to make it work properly, I'd say that even if you were not part of the EU, you might as well be if you follow the rules and regs in order to fit in with the single market.

    I partly agree, it's better to be a full member than not considering countries that are not EU members but are EEA members are not entitled to have a formal vote in the parliament. (Which is the case with my country)

    On the other hand, how much influence smaller non member countries would have in the parliament can be discussed
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think what some people dont understand in this situation, is that we are still fully part of the EU, this latest event has not changed anything.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nope, all it's done is confirm for the rest of Europe that we are a complete joke when it comes to the whole "in/out" question.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you ever wonder if you've ended up in upside down land?

    Cos now we seem to have people shouting for a treaty with no popular support and demands a deficit of no more 0.5% claiming being supported by faux 'liberals'*, whilst the Tories (who are domestically being castigated by these same faux liberals* for aiming for a deficit of 4-5%) are being seen as being right wing.


    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_Data/docs/pressdata/en/ec/126658.pdf


    (Article 4 covers the deficit - I suggest people read the whole doc, neither Clegg or Miliband jnr seem to have bothered)
    * not real UK liberals mind, but the US meaning of the word which is the exact opposite of its original meaning
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    I think what some people dont understand in this situation, is that we are still fully part of the EU, this latest event has not changed anything.

    Absolutely right - some of the reporting seems to be suggesting the UK has declared UDI
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