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London riots

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It seems that the communities are all coming out to help each other. Also applauding the police!

    http://youtu.be/fCsrcnUy8ao
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exactly this.

    And breaking into people's homes: truly disgusting. I'll be interested to hear how being a disaffected youth is used to justify that one.

    My thoughts exactly. This is not a "rage against the system." There is tons of video footage, among others of a couple of adults stealing from an injured boy on the streets. It's just an excuse for the scum to enrich themselves on others people's account. Greedy, egoistic, disgusting people using the opportunity to steal from the equals.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a subset of people have suddenly understood that it is possible to step outside of the contract and not adhere to the rules. And not only that, but that there's a very real chance that doing so could be consequence free.

    The issue is that those people stepped outside of the contract a long time ago. These issues have been brewing for a long time, far longer than a few soundbites about "Tory cuts", as successive Governments (of all hues) have failed to tackle the real issue. And the real issue is that these people don't care about the hard grafting because they have no stake in society. And, even more pertinently than that, they don't see how they will ever get a stake in society by playing by the rules.

    You don't have to be sitting in some dungheap to be disaffected, it comes down to whether there's an incentive to play by society's rules or whether there's an incentive not to. The best example of this was in Northern Ireland where the second Sinn Fein had something to lose most of the rioting and violence subsided.

    For what it's worth I think the corporate thieves at the banks and at vodafone, and in the House of Commons, have just the same motivational drive as the looters in north London. Vodafone's dodged tax bill is the same as the entire welfare budget cut for the next three years. How on earth can the Government expect people to abide by the contract and play by the rules- pay their taxes and save diligently to buy stuff- when they tear that exact same contract up for their friends in big business?

    I mean Government as an institution, too, not as a party political business. All the political parties look after the same people, and it isn't the "common man". Labour were as bad.

    We are governed by consent far more than people realise or give credit for. Take away the incentive to consent- rub people's faces in the corporate larceny- and you take away the governance. There are seven billion reasons why nicking from vodafone is not morally reprehensible...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you're mixing our contract metaphors - something which I probably did as well when originally commenting on Jamelia's post.

    Also, Jesus-fucking-wept: http://audioboo.fm/boos/434411-leana-hosea-speaks-to-croydon-looters-on-bbcworldservice?utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=retweet&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's quite easy to mix metaphors like this.

    Basically my point is that nicking an iPad from Currys' window is no worse than wining and dining HMRC senior staff to avoid paying a £6,000,000,000 tax bill. And I'm not exactly being deafened by demands to see Vodafone's CEO be summarily executed.

    As for the looters: they're mongs. Who knew?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The latest footage that the looting spreads to Cornwall.

    http://i.imgur.com/C5XQm.gif
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    The latest footage that the looting spreads to Cornwall.

    http://i.imgur.com/C5XQm.gif


    :thumb::heart:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think you're gonna find many people running to defend Vodafone's tax evasion. But I'm pretty sure we can find time to condemn both burning a woman out of her home and Vodafone's tax evasion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Definitely. I'd just shoot the people who did that.

    And then shoot vodafone's CEO.

    ETA: Got to laugh at David Cameron saying he's on the side of the "law abiding". Not heard anything so funny in months.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Amazon's sales of aluminum baseball bats increases 5149%

    Local people rally to clear the streets of debris

    Computer users from London and elsewhere are keeping each other updated on ##londonriots on the Freenode IRC network.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At least a capitalist corp is raking in the cash :eek2:


    People are just looting now because they think they can get away with it, and because others are doing it. If someone thinks they can get something for free in a big hustle, they'll cash in. People's reactions to this though is really pissing me off. No, don't bring in rubber bullets, capital punishment, national service, martial law, bigger prisons, more experienced riot gear, don't take the law into your own hands, don't allow the police to publicly beat the living shit out of somebody caught looting. Do they see none of the consequences of this anymore?

    People really are not seeing the big picture, or the problem. Ignorance breeds ignorance just as fear. Right now is a fine example.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Feel so sorry for all the innocent people caught up in this mess, seriously what is wrong with these people?!
    There are rumours that it is going to kick off round here tonight, just one street away from where I am staying with a friend. Could just be people starting rumours though trying to scare the crap outta everyone!
    Hope all this ends very soon and hope everyone stays safe!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Whowhere wrote: »
    They already have done. They attempted to arrest a suspect. The suspect shot a cop, the suspect got shot in return.
    Suprise suprise this has turnt out to be false. Apparently the police 'have never claimed the suspect fired at the police'
    And answer came there none...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tube.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who is that addressed at?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am not going to reiterate everyone else and be like "omg the riots are terrible", because I do think that, but I am not liking many peoples kneejerk reactions to this. I'm seeing and reading about seemingly intelligent people getting racist over this, saying things like "typical of them blacks" when about 50% of those rioting are white and there's many black people condemning the violence, it doesn't help to make this a race issue because it's really not (not anymore at least if the whole Mark Duggan thing was), it's just senseless destruction and looting by opportunism by idiots wanting stuff they haven't earned.

    Another knee-jerk reaction which I don't particularly like either is people wanting Martial Law to be declared or to bring in the military, which is pretty extreme. Or to give the police machine guns and telling them to shoot all rioters and looters on sight. Seriously? I know it might not look like it now, but I thought we were a civilised country. Can't say I disagree with water cannons and such, though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Threxy wrote: »
    I am not going to reiterate everyone else and be like "omg the riots are terrible", because I do think that, but I am not liking many peoples kneejerk reactions to this. I'm seeing and reading about seemingly intelligent people getting racist over this, saying things like "typical of them blacks" when about 50% of those rioting are white and there's many black people condemning the violence, it doesn't help to make this a race issue because it's really not (not anymore at least if the whole Mark Duggan thing was), it's just senseless destruction and looting by opportunism by idiots wanting stuff they haven't earned.

    Another knee-jerk reaction which I don't particularly like either is people wanting Martial Law to be declared or to bring in the military, which is pretty extreme. Or to give the police machine guns and telling them to shoot all rioters and looters on sight. Seriously? I know it might not look like it now, but I thought we were a civilised country. Can't say I disagree with water cannons and such, though.

    Agreed on the racism element, it really makes no difference if these people are black white or yellow and anyone who thinks like that is obviously not that intelligent.

    People are afraid in their own homes and businesses, I don't see how that is an over reaction and perhaps if it was happening on your doorstep you might feel differently? To me we are at the point at which to say "sod civility" and do whatever it takes to restore order. Most of them are bandwagon jumping cowards who could probably do with a good kicking. It's the only language they understand.

    As a country we are too soft on people like this, the amount of petty criminals, who constantly re offend, we have in this country is outrageous and the reason it happens is because they know there is no actual long term consequences for their actions.

    I can only laugh when I hear this is happening because these kids feel disaffected and angry at society. I personally feel their is much more anger amongst hard working, law abiding tax payers who have to put up with, and pay for, scum like this to live here.

    But of course those people don't go round bricking windows and looting, so sod what they think.... :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Vodafone's dodged tax bill is the same as the entire welfare budget cut for the next three years. How on earth can the Government expect people to abide by the contract and play by the rules- pay their taxes and save diligently to buy stuff- when they tear that exact same contract up for their friends in big business?

    Beyond the fairy tale Rousseau contract, and particularly in the case of the Vodafone corporation, the contractual taxable obligation(s) of any entity can be found in the very fine small print of the relevant tax statutes.

    From my understanding of the lengthy Vodafone case, they have played by those rules.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was on duty last night, I had to do a double shift (7am until midnight). It was absolute chaos. Mobs of feral fucking twats everywhere, Luckily I was stationed in a quieter area and only had to contend with the EDL vigilante element. A lot of my colleagues weren't so lucky. Not aware of any injuries but we had a few panda cars firebombed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From my understanding of the lengthy Vodafone case, they have played by those rules.

    Except HMRC's own lawyers don't think that they did; HMRC's own lawyers (and many other tax specialists) believe that Vodafone got a brilliant deal. Even Vodafone themselves had budgeted for the £6bn tax bill.

    In any event, Dave Hartnett certainly didn't play by the laws governing his job by not referring it to those self-same lawyers before negotiating the settlement. As he has failed to do with various other tax settlements with big corporations that had wined and dined him. I'm yet to see him punished...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Neddy wrote: »
    People are afraid in their own homes and businesses, I don't see how that is an over reaction and perhaps if it was happening on your doorstep you might feel differently? To me we are at the point at which to say "sod civility" and do whatever it takes to restore order. Most of them are bandwagon jumping cowards who could probably do with a good kicking. It's the only language they understand.

    The US has capital punishment and has more riots and more murders than most western countries.

    I'd politely suggest that giving them "a good kicking" doesn't actually achieve anything.
    As a country we are too soft on people like this, the amount of petty criminals, who constantly re offend, we have in this country is outrageous and the reason it happens is because they know there is no actual long term consequences for their actions.

    It depends what you mean by consequence, doesn't it.

    For you or I, prison is an actual long term consequence because we would lose our jobs, our families and our homes if we were incarcerated, even for a few months. The actual prison sentence isn't the consequence, it is what the prison sentence means for us that is the consequence.

    But that's not the case for everyone. Once you've been to prison you're pretty much unemployable, especially if your conviction related to drugs or theft. So you don't have a job to lose. Prison becomes an occupational hazard because the only way you can make money is through illegal activity- drugs, theft, etc. Prison provides stable accommodation, even if you're inside for a few years, and the longer you are inside the harder it is to adjust to life on the outside when your stretch is done. So once you're out you're more likely to re-offend.

    Unless you're from a wealthy background, in which case you'll be fine because your friends will make sure you get a nice cushy job when you get out.

    "Lock the bastards up" is a fantastic soundbite but the reality is far more complicated than that. There are people I've worked with who deliberately break their ASBOs just to have the security and familiarity of prison.

    http://rosamicula.livejournal.com/540476.html says a lot of what I think.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it seems to have quietened down in london!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its only gone quiet for a while. They cant keep that many police on duty forever.

    Also. The social network world are planning attacks this friday. I dont normally object when people riot but this has got to the point that i've reported 1 of the planned riots. (the people were planning attacks on people and specific targets).

    As i've said to a lot of people lately, i wish they would direct it in the right places!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A 31-year-old teacher has just pleaded guilty to looting. Disaffected impoverished youth?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A 31-year-old teacher has just pleaded guilty to looting. Disaffected impoverished youth?

    News on Radio 2 just said he was "shouting obscenities at the cameramen filming him".

    What a fucking amazing role model you are to your primary school kids. Fuck's sake.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whilst I understand peoples arguements about deprived areas and lack of the feeling of "belonging" to a community; actions like this of a 31 year old teacher highlight what a lot of other people have been saying, ie: people are still choosing to behave the way they have.

    Ps is your twin still ok franki?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyone know the update on the Sony factory?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Whilst I understand peoples arguements about deprived areas and lack of the feeling of "belonging" to a community; actions like this of a 31 year old teacher highlight what a lot of other people have been saying, ie: people are still choosing to behave the way they have.

    Ps is your twin still ok franki?

    Yeah, she's fine. Still grumpy at her, but it was quiet round her way yesterday.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, she's fine. Still grumpy at her, but it was quiet round her way yesterday.

    She should have given my mate dave a call.
    33cozec.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A quote from Facebook;
    "RIP Broken Britain.. You went soft on discipline! You went soft on immigration! You went soft on crime.. Parents were told.. 'No you can't smack the kids' ....Teachers were prevented from chastising kids in schools.. The police couldn't clip a troublemaker round the ear.. Kids had rights blah blah blah.. Well done Britain..You shall reap what you sow.. We have lost a whole generation!"

    Your opinions on this? I think this is a fair bit true.
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